puffsaddy
Member
he did have the manny fight.. they didn't do it because of covid.
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- Thread starter Duwop
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Added to Calendar: 05-18-24
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Floyd is a troll. But the fact is floyd always fought the best possible fight that was made available to him.
When he was with top rank, he fought all of Bob's top guys.... Bob prevented him from fighting Oscar, so he left to pursue that fight, and made fights with the checking champions and belt holders outside of top rank to make it happen.
The whole "cherry picking" argument stemmed from Bob trying to tarnish Floyd and build his guys up. He never intended on Floyd fighting Margarito.... But he was the boogy man
He never intended on him fighting cotto... Until he mismanaged cotto career and he left top rank to fight Floyd himself. Something he could have been done... But he fell in the trap with his contract.
Same with Manny. Only reason that fight happened because HBO wanted it. They knew Bob was killing HBO boxing for ESPN and they wanted a big fight, so they stepped in to make the Floyd/Manny fight.
Floyd say a lot of wild shit.... But if you watch the moves, and pay attention to the politics, and tune out the opinions.... It's very clear what happened in his career.
The facts always stand up
Bob's a fucking liar..
We almost had the venue
We almost had the money
We almost had the contract
But it was covid and the fans.....
Mean while, he was the first one to get boxing back on TV.
He got Loma and Teo.
He got Bud and Brook
You know why he blames covid.... Cuz he got a contract with ESPN, and Manny wants PPV money.... That's why Manny left Top Rank to fight Broner bum ass.... Cuz it was a ppv fight.
Bob don't build big fights no more.... He not trying to get Bud that kind of payday, but because he can't admit that... He says shit like
No one wants to fight Bud.
Or he says
We can't make the fight because we can't get any fans.
It all translates to " I ain't coming out my pocket any extra to make superfights when I get paid more to have you fight in my stable"
Same guy who complained about how Bud wastes him money.
He says that bcuz bud wants fights that are outside of top rank. And that would loose him money. It would make bud more, but Bob's cut is less. It's a dirty game...
The only reason the "good ole days" happened was because the promoters were besties....
The best didn't fight the best because they were fearless.
The best fought the best because most of the best were promoted by Bob, and he was good friends with Don King. And they got along well cuz they didn't give a fuck about taking extra from their fighters to make the big fights happen.
If Al Haymon and Bob Arum were tight like Don and Bob were.... This other side of the street conversation would be non existent
He says that bcuz bud wants fights that are outside of top rank. And that would loose him money. It would make bud more, but Bob's cut is less. It's a dirty game...
The only reason the "good ole days" happened was because the promoters were besties....
The best didn't fight the best because they were fearless.
The best fought the best because most of the best were promoted by Bob, and he was good friends with Don King. And they got along well cuz they didn't give a fuck about taking extra from their fighters to make the big fights happen.
If Al Haymon and Bob Arum were tight like Don and Bob were.... This other side of the street conversation would be non existent
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
Your comparison is flawed. MMA organizations don't work like boxing promotions for the most part. You don't have UFC and two or three other companies with equal talent levels. Right now, the best MMAists in the world are either in the UFC or will wind up in the UFC. So, if you were to think of it in boxing terms, Crawford, Spence, and all the other welters you're talking about would be in the UFC period and they would all be fighting each other. There would be none of this ducking, dodging, and talking.
Again, I'm not going by what Arum said. I'm going by comments that Floyd himself made. Now, if you want to claim there was no strategy on who Floyd fought and when he fought them going against what the man himself has said, that's fine. At the end of the day, you still acknowledge that multiple times in his career Floyd failed to fight other contenders when those other fighters were at their most dangerous. If you believe that's because of boxing culture and promotions more than Floyd, that's fine. It still feeds into my earlier point that this is something that is better in MMA. Well, to be clear, better for the audience not necessarily for the fighters.
DMorgan
You niggas is EXCOMMUNICADO!!!
@The Lonious Monk who are the fighters you feel Floyd didn't fight when they were in their primes?
Both you & @Duwop have some good points and some things I disagree with.
Good discourse between yall though!
Both you & @Duwop have some good points and some things I disagree with.
Good discourse between yall though!
Mafuzzychef
Active Member
Paul Williams
Margarito
Manny
Thurman
Khan
Shawn Porter
Margarito
Manny
Thurman
Khan
Shawn Porter
How many great fighters were over 35 when they made their ufc debut?
MmA did not begin with UFC. The sport itself has been regional for decades, and while I can admit that they are the top promotion. They are still a promotion. Not the entire sport.
Fighters like Fedor and cyborg put in work before coming to UFC. And a host of other guys didn't make it there until past their prime.
There are many mma fighters who exist right now, outside the UFC. Who can compete with those guys. And they never will get that chance, unless they sign a UFC contract. That's my point.
Mma is set up just like boxing. UFC is just more dominant than any other mma promotion.
Also who did Floyd ACTIVELY AVOID?
I'll give most credibility to Paul Williams....I wanted that fight as well. I don't think Floyd was avoiding it... It just didn't line up at the times. PW picked up Floyds title when he vacated to move up in weight. That's what made it attractive, and the fact that he beat Margarito. I can't say he avoided the man, but it just never lined up. Soon as PW moved up he got caught up in those Sergio fights that ended him
The rest of those guys were either top rank fights that couldn't happen because of politics or fighters that came up during his exit out. Anything after 2010 is a reach to say he ducked when 2000-2010 he actively fought champions in every division he went into...
If we're to run with this list....
I'll give most credibility to Paul Williams....I wanted that fight as well. I don't think Floyd was avoiding it... It just didn't line up at the times. PW picked up Floyds title when he vacated to move up in weight. That's what made it attractive, and the fact that he beat Margarito. I can't say he avoided the man, but it just never lined up. Soon as PW moved up he got caught up in those Sergio fights that ended him
The rest of those guys were either top rank fights that couldn't happen because of politics or fighters that came up during his exit out. Anything after 2010 is a reach to say he ducked when 2000-2010 he actively fought champions in every division he went into...
DMorgan
You niggas is EXCOMMUNICADO!!!
Context and situations around the fighters, the tv stations they fight on and promotional companies matter when folks talking about these fighters are ducking other fighters.
It's easy to throw out a list of names but you have to remember what was going on between all parties involved before you can just say a person ducked someone or waited a fighter out for them no longer be in their prime before they fought.
It's easy to throw out a list of names but you have to remember what was going on between all parties involved before you can just say a person ducked someone or waited a fighter out for them no longer be in their prime before they fought.
The ducking rumors didn't start until did Floyd left top rank.
Let's not be hypothetical... Lets be real.
Bob said cotto was too green at 140 for floyd. His words. Floyd fought gatti instead. He wanted cotto, but Bob didn't want the fight.
Margarito had 1 belt at 147.
Zab had 3, lost 2 to baldamir.
Floyd took the belts from zab and baldamir, and didn't fight margarito
Cotto gets beat by margarito
Margarito gets beat by Shane
Shane hops in the ring with floyd after a fight
Shane and floyd happens...
Who was Floyd ducking then?
Manny?
Floyd went to Manny directly. Told him how to leave Bob, and secure the fight. Many declined. He wanted to go thru Bob. And Bob did everything in his power to sabotage negotiations.
Cotto leaves top rank and the fight is made within a month. Like almost right away.
Bob stood directly in the way of those fights and people blame Floyd for not letting him fuck him over on the money. Shits wild
Let's not be hypothetical... Lets be real.
Bob said cotto was too green at 140 for floyd. His words. Floyd fought gatti instead. He wanted cotto, but Bob didn't want the fight.
Margarito had 1 belt at 147.
Zab had 3, lost 2 to baldamir.
Floyd took the belts from zab and baldamir, and didn't fight margarito
Cotto gets beat by margarito
Margarito gets beat by Shane
Shane hops in the ring with floyd after a fight
Shane and floyd happens...
Who was Floyd ducking then?
Manny?
Floyd went to Manny directly. Told him how to leave Bob, and secure the fight. Many declined. He wanted to go thru Bob. And Bob did everything in his power to sabotage negotiations.
Cotto leaves top rank and the fight is made within a month. Like almost right away.
Bob stood directly in the way of those fights and people blame Floyd for not letting him fuck him over on the money. Shits wild
Then you got tszyu & collazo... People try to throw their names in there.....Both who were beaten ruthlessly by Ricky hatton, who also beat Castillo who people claim beat floyd....
Ricky Hatton was the biggest undefeated name at the time. Whole country behind him, and a recent fight resume of names people tried to throw out there.
Ricky wasn't with top rank.
And it's easy in 2020 to say it was a lesser fight... But at the time it was made.... The fight HAD to be made.
Ricky was at his best and most dangerous when he fought Floyd
And again
Collazo was undefeated before ricky
Castillo had one of the closet fights with Floyd
Tszyu was also still a highly relevant name.
It just look different 15 years later
Ricky Hatton was the biggest undefeated name at the time. Whole country behind him, and a recent fight resume of names people tried to throw out there.
Ricky wasn't with top rank.
And it's easy in 2020 to say it was a lesser fight... But at the time it was made.... The fight HAD to be made.
Ricky was at his best and most dangerous when he fought Floyd
And again
Collazo was undefeated before ricky
Castillo had one of the closet fights with Floyd
Tszyu was also still a highly relevant name.
It just look different 15 years later
Mafuzzychef
Active Member
Floyd had picks
i purposely left out Cotto and Mosley but he don’t get the benefit of doubt missing all those dudes. He didn’t have to fight all of them, he fought none of them
Floyd a ATG but he ain’t higher on the list cause he missed too many dudes. I didnt even go b4 147 to not nitpick
That's a poor argument.
Show me who floyd ducked and when would have been the best time to fight that person and explain how his alternative was the weaker option.
It takes a lot of work, and it's easier to just say he ducked guys. But if you really break it down it's simply not like that. I challenge you to do it
DMorgan
You niggas is EXCOMMUNICADO!!!
Every fighter has picks. I'm not even arguing against Monk's point. I just want to see the list.
Context and what is going on at the time with tv, promoters, etc all matters.
You would be better off trying to list the names before Floyd fought at 147 and higher because 34 out of his 50 fights was fought below 147.
Also let's not forget just because he fought at a high level don't mean he was in his prime when listing the fighters you thought he should've fought at a certain point.
Mafuzzychef
Active Member
Not worth the time
im Objective with this. 40 year old Manny Pacqiao fought Keith Thurman. He is the definition of no picks in this era.
David Diaz
De la Hoya
Hatton
cotto
Clottey
Margarito
mosley
Marquez
bradley
marquez
Manny 08-12 Run
idc If dudes makes business moves, they putting they life on the line. I will count it against you
thats The same amount of fights Floyd got total since 08
Big Lurko
Im not here to read more than 2 lines..
He the shotgun suge of division
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The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
There are a few names that get thrown out a lot. For me, the only one I can't forgive is Pac. I'm not going to put that all on Mayweather because there was bullshit all around, but I did dislike how after Pac took a couple losses, Floyd used that to prolong negotiations even more. That's not something that people who actually want to fight and prove their superiority do.
You'd have more of a point if we were talking about the days when PRIDE was still around. Then yeah, it was exactly like the boxing scenario. The best fighters were split between two organizations and the lack of cross competition outside of a couple isolated events kept us from seeing something like Couture/Fedor or Liddel/Wanderlei in their primes. I'm not talking about that era though. I'm talking about right now. Here's a relatively P4P MMA listing.
MMA pound-for-pound rankings: Jon Jones reclaims No. 1 spot after heavyweight title victory
Jones' return to the rankings creates a unique situation.
sports.yahoo.com
For men, only two fighters on the list aren't in the UFC, and that's because they are flyweights and UFC doesn't have a flyweight division for men anymore. One of them is Demetrious Johnson. He already fought in the UFC and we've seen most of the interesting matches that people might have wanted with him. The women are all in the UFC. That's my point. No, UFC isn't all there is to MMA, but if we're talking about wanting to see the best fight the best, which is what we're talking about, that's going to be UFC fighters vs UFC fighters and there isn't going to be in promotional bullshit the prevents fights like in boxing.
The Oscar fight was at 147 a year AFTER oscar said he couldn't fight at 147 any more.
I'll give him the cotto, Shane, marquez and hatton fights... Cuz they happened at the same time or after floyd fought them.
Bradley and clottey both top rank fighters... And hardly anybody to duck.....
David diaz hardly relevant ....
Ortiz
Berto
Guerrero
Are better fights than
Diaz
Clottey
Bradley
Berto and Ortiz had a fight if the year candidate that was way better than any fight the latter three were in.
And gurrero who might be Floyds weakest opponent was coming off a national tv show and had claim to a title