Spinoff thread from the Dr Umar interview.

Soul_Rattler said:
You love who you love due to proximity and values.

But as Umar said, marriage isn't about love. It's about joining your life, family, and resources with someone else's. Marriage is a business. Relationships are a matter of time and money more than fleeting emotions. The trick is being emotionally invested in someone from another group.
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I don't agree with that characterization of marriage, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Umar isn't married so he isn't exactly an authority on marriage.

I acknowledge that there a financial aspect to marriage. I also believe marriage can be a business if that's what the parties want, but saying that all marriages break down to that is stupid and sounds like it's coming from someone who has only experienced marriage from the outside.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
I don't agree with that characterization of marriage, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Umar isn't married so he isn't exactly an authority on marriage.

I acknowledge that there a financial aspect to marriage. I also believe marriage can be a business if that's what the parties want, but saying that all marriages break down to that is stupid and sounds like it's coming from someone who has only experienced marriage from the outside.
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If your getting married for only financial reasons don’t get married.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
I don't agree with that characterization of marriage, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Umar isn't married so he isn't exactly an authority on marriage.

I acknowledge that there a financial aspect to marriage. I also believe marriage can be a business if that's what the parties want, but saying that all marriages break down to that is stupid and sounds like it's coming from someone who has only experienced marriage from the outside.
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I see why you would want to reduce the message to the messenger, but the idea that marriage is a business didn't start with Umar. Societies and kingdoms and the most wealthy and powerful families on the planet spanning centuries have operated on that very idea. What do you think arranged marriages are for? Why do you think people stay married while miserable, abused, cheated on, etc? Because they weigh the life of being together versus a life alone: a lesser house, lesser income, bigger expenses... the sex and emotion will come and go like the wind.

What do you think the purpose of divorce is? Because people fall out of love? No, it's to divide the very resources they joined together to share.

Be pragmatic, not emotional.
 
Soul_Rattler said:
I see why you would want to reduce the message to the messenger, but the idea that marriage is a business didn't start with Umar. Societies and kingdoms and the most wealthy and powerful families on the planet spanning centuries have operated on that very idea. What do you think arranged marriages are for? Why do you think people stay married while miserable, abused, cheated on, etc? Because they weigh the life of being together versus a life alone: a lesser house, lesser income, bigger expenses... the sex and emotion will come and go like the wind.

What do you think the purpose of divorce is? Because people fall out of love? No, it's to divide the very resources they joined together to share.

Be pragmatic, not emotional.
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Almost everything you said is irrelevant because it's out of the context of the conversation. Umar wasn't giving a referendum on the state of marriage over the centuries and across the world's cultures. He was talking about its importance within American society especially with regards to how it should be practiced by Black Americans. Most black americans don't have the succession or wealth inheritance woes that rich nobles in the past did, and we don't practice arranged marriages.

We're talking about marriage as it is practiced now, and I'm not reducing the message to the messenger. I'm just pointing out that I, as a person that is in a successful marriage, absolutely do not look at my marriage as a business and don't think it would work if I didn't love my wife. I come from a family where everyone is married (parents, grandparents, uncles, etc..). My wife is the same. And all those people would disagree with Umar too. So who are you going to believe on this topic, the guy who's not married or the two families that put a premium on marriage and have been successful with maintaining marriages over decades and generations.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
Almost everything you said is irrelevant because it's out of the context of the conversation. Umar wasn't giving a referendum on the state of marriage over the centuries and across the world's cultures. He was talking about its importance within American society especially with regards to how it should be practiced by Black Americans. Most black americans don't have the succession or wealth inheritance woes that rich nobles in the past did, and we don't practice arranged marriages.

We're talking about marriage as it is practiced now, and I'm not reducing the message to the messenger. I'm just pointing out that I, as a person that is in a successful marriage, absolutely do not look at my marriage as a business and don't think it would work if I didn't love my wife. I come from a family where everyone is married (parents, grandparents, uncles, etc..). My wife is the same. And all those people would disagree with Umar too. So who are you going to believe on this topic, the guy who's not married or the two families that put a premium on marriage and have been successful with maintaining marriages over decades and generations.
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You're missing my point. I'm not saying love doesn't play a part in a successful marriage. But as Louis Farrakhan, a man whose been married 68 years now said, love and duty are intertwined. True love compels a sense of commitment and execution in favor of that in which you love. You don't say you love someone and let them go broke. You don't say you love someone but let their house fall apart. Etc. That is the practical sense of "business". Not that it is strictly a contractual agreement between strangers, but that people who have an emotional connection have committed themselves to building and fortifying their lives, and everything they have, TOGETHER.

As for Umar, what I'm saying is directly relevant because I've heard him speak on the subject of interracial marriage on many occasions and he echoes the sentiments of great African men and women before him. Yes, many Africans in America don't have generational wealth and a crucial reason why is because we are institutionalized mentally and have been perverted spiritually away from our traditional ways. Many of us fuck, procreate, and marry based on who has a fat ass, who got clout on the block, and who got some flashy money. But if more of us were strategic in who we get with, we'd see more productive and successful friendships, marriages, commercial businesses, and truly black owned communities.

But nah... we rather get mad when someone says to stop thinking with your genitalia and be logical with life decisions. "Easily led in the wrong direction. Hard to lead in the right direction."
 
Soul_Rattler said:
You're missing my point. I'm not saying love doesn't play a part in a successful marriage. But as Louis Farrakhan, a man whose been married 68 years now said, love and duty are intertwined. True love compels a sense of commitment and execution in favor of that in which you love. You don't say you love someone and let them go broke. You don't say you love someone but let their house fall apart. Etc. That is the practical sense of "business". Not that it is strictly a contractual agreement between strangers, but that people who have an emotional connection have committed themselves to building and fortifying their lives, and everything they have, TOGETHER.

As for Umar, what I'm saying is directly relevant because I've heard him speak on the subject of interracial marriage on many occasions and he echoes the sentiments of great African men and women before him. Yes, many Africans in America don't have generational wealth and a crucial reason why is because we are institutionalized mentally and have been perverted spiritually away from our traditional ways. Many of us fuck, procreate, and marry based on who has a fat ass, who got clout on the block, and who got some flashy money. But if more of us were strategic in who we get with, we'd see more productive and successful friendships, marriages, commercial businesses, and truly black owned communities.

But nah... we rather get mad when someone says to stop thinking with your genitalia and be logical with life decisions. "Easily led in the wrong direction. Hard to lead in the right direction."
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I agree with what you're saying. I don't agree that's what Umar said in this interview. You could be right about what he meant, but his take as expressed in this interview was not nearly as insightful as that Farrakhan quote.

Also, stick with arguing the point and stop trying to attach all these emotional responses to the disagreement. I believe Umar was factually incorrect with some of what he said. I'm not mad at him for saying it.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
I agree with what you're saying. I don't agree that's what Umar said in this interview. You could be right about what he meant, but his take as expressed in this interview was not nearly as insightful as that Farrakhan quote.

Also, stick with arguing the point and stop trying to attach all these emotional responses to the disagreement. I believe Umar was factually incorrect with some of what he said. I'm not mad at him for saying it.
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Well Farrakhan has been teaching since before Umar was born. So I don't think you'd be surprised that he can present ideas more thoroughly and insightfully on his own stage than Umar can in a Breakfast Club interview.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
I do know what I'm talking about. This has been well established.

.

The groups that we refer to as "races" have as much genetic variation within them and in some cases more variation than between those actual races. There is no biological basis between race as we define it. It was made up.

And if you believe all Africans thought of themselves as the same, you're an idiot. They don't even think that way now.
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everything is this post is science just used to say what you want

I rest my case

stop spreading misinformation

you not smart to me bro. No need for insults
 
Soul_Rattler said:
Everything that you've said is just wrong.

1. You said his school is "under construction".

He bought the school. It's fully built. 2 buildings to be exact. Here he is walking through it


2. You said investors aren't given any transparency. But he shows the buildings almost weekly and let's everyone know that at this moment, he needs HVAC and plumbing repairs done. And on his website he offers 5 levels of investment that allows for more detailed information about the school progress IF you pay the investment fees.

But again, he explains alot to the public for free:

Exactly what transparency do you want? Assuming you've even donated?

3. You said there's no school in sight. But here's a video someone else made visibly showing the property.


4. You said he's not proven to have any psychology degrees. But the certificate is right here for you to see:
www.pdf-archive.com

PDF document Verification_Certificate_148541533-2.pdf

www.pdf-archive.com www.pdf-archive.com

And even his detractors had to walk back their lies about him not being a doctor of clinical psychology:
www.theroot.com

I Was Wrong. His Name Is Doctor Umar Johnson

A little more than a week ago I wrote two scathing articles about Umar Johnson. I called him a charlatan (I think ... I call a lot of charlatans “charlatan”). I castigated him for taking people’s money without showing them where it went. I said that there was no evidence he ever tried to buy a...
www.theroot.com www.theroot.com

5. You said the family denied that he was a descendant when that's not accurate. He said he is a blood relative of Frederick Douglas, not a biological grandchild, which they both agree as stated here:


So why don't you know any of this? And again, where did he run away to? Answer the question.
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Did @Sion just... run away from this thread?

:hahaha:
 
Dwayne said:
@ABW

How long has this school been in process?
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What are you asking specifically?

How long has Umar wanted to open a school?
How long has Umar been raising money for the school?
How long had Umar been searching for property to purchase?
How long has it been since he purchased The property in Wilmington, Delaware?
Or how long until the school is open for business?
 
Soul_Rattler said:
What are you asking specifically?

How long has Umar wanted to open a school?
How long has Umar been raising money for the school?
How long had Umar been searching for property to purchase?
How long has it been since he purchased The property in Wilmington, Delaware?
Or how long until the school is open for business?
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All of the above
 
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