And how many other times have players said they wanted to do something and got told no? Come on man...
HOF or FOH: Devin Hester
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They know not to ask because they know it's not an option. He knew coming on for Wentz, RB, or DB weren't options. If he did ask, he'd get a no. DJAX can take that when he wants. Hill can probably take it when he wants. Patrick Peterson for years could probably take it when he wanted.
With it not being uncommon for players to be able to ask for a spot and get it when they want, it shows that the guys in those spots probably aren't the best they have to offer. (And i mean serious requests. Not like Chad Johnson kicking an XP).
That's allll I'm saying. The competition level at that position isn't high. In fact it may be the lowest for any position you'd consider putting someone in the HOF for.
More goalpost moving.
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Be specific. How'd I move them?
“They know not to ask because they know it's not an option”
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How's that moving the goalpost? You think Jackson could have been the QB if he asked?
I said there are MORE times when the players ask to do stuff and the coach tells them NO.
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That's the point! Like what I said with Chad Johnson. He asked to kick. They told his ass no. I think they let him play around in a preseason game.
What other OFF/DEF/kicking position do you think a player could request to take that position over, and get a yes in close games?
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Desean Jackson, Tyreke Hill, AB, Mecole Hardman etc....
The specific skill set of returning kicks and punts is something they already were known for coming out of college. The skillset ENHANCED their draft stock...because just like you can say every return man cant be or isnt an elite WR/DB/RB...the reverse can be said as well...
To be fair...in the case of Hill, AB and Hardman...they were drafted specifically for thier return ablility with the possible upside of contributing on offense because of the ability to play in space.
The argument can be made that if Hester played in the current NFL...he would be an elite offensive talent...because of his ability to play in space
The specific skill set of returning kicks and punts is something they already were known for coming out of college. The skillset ENHANCED their draft stock...because just like you can say every return man cant be or isnt an elite WR/DB/RB...the reverse can be said as well...
To be fair...in the case of Hill, AB and Hardman...they were drafted specifically for thier return ablility with the possible upside of contributing on offense because of the ability to play in space.
The argument can be made that if Hester played in the current NFL...he would be an elite offensive talent...because of his ability to play in space
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We're agreeing. The people you named have elite return ability, but once they developed as WR's they got less time as a returner, despite all probably being better at returning than their team's current returner.
That's what I've been saying. Once these really good returners have a couple years under their belts and are offensive/ defensive starters, they don't do as many returns despite being great returners. It's not that they fell off. They're just being used in a bigger role. That opens the door for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th best returner to be the return man.
We'll agree to disagree for now on what he'd do if he was currently in the league.
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You dont think Hester would ball as in these spread offenses?
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Nah. Sproles, Bush, DJAX, and I'm sure more people came in the league around the same time as him and managed to find a way to be productive on offense. I'm not saying he'd fail, but i don't think he'd be a special talent.
You said because DeSean asked to return the kick is proof that PR/KR is less than.
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Those squads had competent QBs they found ways to get them guys the ball
Djax went to Philly and had Andy Reid and Mike Vick
Sproles went to SD and had prime Phillip Rivers
Hester had Rex mf Grossman
Bears were successful those years because of elite defense and special teams play
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I hear you on that, but the Bears found ways to have Forte eating on offense.
He asked because he knew the deal. Them saying yes proved the point. I'll ask you what I asked earlier...
Do you think each team's PR/KR is better than everyone else on the roster at that position?
More goalpost movements. But to answer your question. There may be certain players that are better so yes.
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Looook. If you want to go into the HOF at QB you're being compared to the Manning's, Brady's, Brees'. If you want to go in at WR, you're being compared to the Moss', Owens', Harrison, Fitzgeralds. If you want to go in at RB you're being compared to the Peterson's, Sanders, Smiths etc.
Those are the best of the best of what the NFL has to offer. You're truly against elite players, doing what they're elite at. I don't think KR/PR is the same. They have lesser players in the position. Just like I don't think the coverage team is made up of the best defenders the NFL has to offer.
Those are the best of the best of what the NFL has to offer. You're truly against elite players, doing what they're elite at. I don't think KR/PR is the same. They have lesser players in the position. Just like I don't think the coverage team is made up of the best defenders the NFL has to offer.
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You say it's goalpost moving. I say it's the same standard across the board. Can another player come to the coach, say they want to take your spot, and get a "Ya, go for it" in return? That's a clear no for just about every position on just about every team. That's not the case for KR/PR though.