HipHop Would Not Exist Without Jamaicans & Puerto Ricans - KRS One

[Allah_U_Akbar]

​

 

[Allah_U_Akbar]

Being in the vicinity and contributing doesn’t equal “created it 50/50”.

 

[Disanthrope]

Tether hyenas on LOLs as usual

Whatever yall find so giggly, keep that same energy when we're delineating

 

[SeaSnake]

Stupidity

 

[Loch121]

This conversation is never ever ever had by people from New York, it’s always niggas from Nebraska somewhere trying to tell you about NY in the 70’s.

Shit sucks because them same niggas hate New Yorkers but want our cultural contributions in these innanet debates.

I’m not saying you’re talking about me,but you wouldn’t have to be in NY in 70s to know who made hip hop.

Hip hop was a culture that formed from many different components coming together from ppl from all over the country and NY put them together and named it and gave it structure and definitely finalized it.

There were ppl rapping or speaking rhythmically to music in old ass black and white videos and ppl breakdancing doing the exact same dances who weren’t from NY .

James Browm ain’t from NY but his music influenced hip hop.

The ppl who first brought this to my attention were older NY dudes who were around though.

I wasn’t there and I’m not from there,but I have lived and spent plenty of time in NYC.

I definitely don’t hate NYC. It’s my 3rd home.

 

[NinetyFree]

I’m not saying you’re talking about me,but you wouldn’t have to be in NY in 70s to know who made hip hop.

Wasn’t a shot. I don’t really know personalities that well here but the argument runs the same across acronym twitter and it lies in the same objective which is..

Hip hop was a culture that formed from many different components coming together from ppl from all over the country and NY put them together and named it and gave it structure and definitely finalized it.

There were ppl rapping or speaking rhythmically to music in old ass black and white videos and ppl breakdancing doing the exact same dances who weren’t from NY .

This entire line of thinking seeks to remove the essence of Hip Hop from NYC. Hip Hop isn’t some piecemeal thing that was formed by people who linked up or united when they arrived at New York like some kind of Tower of Babel. It developed here and only HERE by people from HERE.

People speaking rhythmically isn’t Hip-Hop and existed simultaneously worldwide with Ragtime, honky tonk, calypso and other musical forms extant during the first recorded music.

Double-Dutch which adds the clapping, call and response of cyphers or Lite feetfor example lies in the historical NY Afram communal experience of people who have zero relation to the south in any way shape or form.these are highly provincial cultural traditions that weren’t shared in the 1950’s across 3000 miles because NY Afram were Dutch-influenced the way Louisiana Blacks are by the French and we don’t eat (African) Gumbo. Hip Hop is solely New York, to say otherwise is highly disrespectful to the Black people who actually live in New York..What were they doing while these mysterious southern migrants founding the art that defined their historical locales?

As far as the West Indian shit, the fact homie is that if you create a list of 50 Bronx pioneers, every list is gonna be half from the Caribbean somewhere, that’s just an unavoidable fact, if Black people owned 50% of Fried Chicken resturaunts in Korea in 1960, it would be stupid to say Korean Fried Chicken is a Korean only invention.

Black Southern Nationalists act exactly as their White counterparts when they detract from Northern Black culture and try to claim our achievements as their own. This is the white guy who hates the woke libs in New York but brags to any foreigner who will listen how prestigious Columbia or NYU is..shit is odd as hell.

 

[GNS]

Yea I see that too
Tariq is from the west telling the world that African Americans from the south and everywhere else made hip hop but niggaz that were in the bx but from another country had nothing to do with it.
Odd

 

[Loch121]

Wasn’t a shot. I don’t really know personalities that well here but the argument runs the same across acronym twitter and it lies in the same objective which is..

This entire line of thinking seeks to remove the essence of Hip Hop from NYC. Hip Hop isn’t some piecemeal thing that was formed by people who linked up or united when they arrived at New York like some kind of Tower of Babel. It developed here and only HERE by people from HERE.

People speaking rhythmically isn’t Hip-Hop and existed simultaneously worldwide with Ragtime, honky tonk, calypso and other musical forms extant during the first recorded music.

Double-Dutch which adds the clapping, call and response of cyphers or Lite feetfor example lies in the historical NY Afram communal experience of people who have zero relation to the south in any way shape or form.these are highly provincial cultural traditions that weren’t shared in the 1950’s across 3000 miles because NY Afram were Dutch-influenced the way Louisiana Blacks are by the French and we don’t eat (African) Gumbo. Hip Hop is solely New York, to say otherwise is highly disrespectful to the Black people who actually live in New York..What were they doing while these mysterious southern migrants founding the art that defined their historical locales?

As far as the West Indian shit, the fact homie is that if you create a list of 50 Bronx pioneers, every list is gonna be half from the Caribbean somewhere, that’s just an unavoidable fact, if Black people owned 50% of Fried Chicken resturaunts in Korea in 1960, it would be stupid to say Korean Fried Chicken is a Korean only invention.

Black Southern Nationalists act exactly as their White counterparts when they detract from Northern Black culture and try to claim our achievements as their own. This is the white guy who hates the woke libs in New York but brags to any foreigner who will listen how prestigious Columbia or NYU is..shit is odd as hell.

While I slightly disagree with some things there's no doubt that New York created hip hop

 

[Disanthrope]

By simply saying NY created hip hop is not wrong but that's exactly what leaves the door open for Puerto Ricans and others to claim co-creation

Black Americans with southern roots who migrated to NY created hip hop. All 5 elements were already in place. NY fused it together, but it wasn't a NY thing that came out of thin air. It's rooted deeper than NY

 

[GNS]

By simply saying NY created hip hop is not wrong but that's exactly what leaves the door open for Puerto Ricans and others to claim co-creation

Black Americans with southern roots who migrated to NY created hip hop. All 5 elements were already in place. NY fused it together, but it wasn't a NY thing that came out of thin air. It's rooted deeper than NY

I do think it's important people know the roots especially black people of something they created but aren't you doing the same thing as the "others" by claiming every or southern African Americans had a hand in making hip hop when new Yorkers are saying it's theirs solely?!?

@NinetyFree already stated you can find parts of what makes the whole in other forms of expression but the finished product is NYC's

What right does anyone else have to lay claim?

 

[Loch121]

By simply saying NY created hip hop is not wrong but that's exactly what leaves the door open for Puerto Ricans and others to claim co-creation

Black Americans with southern roots who migrated to NY created hip hop. All 5 elements were already in place. NY fused it together, but it wasn't a NY thing that came out of thin air. It's rooted deeper than NY

That's kind of what I was saying

I'm not saying NY didn't create hip hop,but hip hop wasn't created in a vacuum .

It's a culmination of black music up to that point.

Soul, rnb, disco, African music, rock, jazz, blues, bebop etc,

It literally uses those forms of music to sample.

I'm not trying take the creation of hip hop away from NY though.

NY is hip hop no doubt and hip hop is/was the culture of NYC put to wax .

 

[NinetyFree]

Post is by no means directed @ the brother Loch I just wanna demonstrate specifically how these arguments works to undermine some African Americans in a bid to exalt others and marginalize Northern Blacks.

I grew up dancing LiteFeet, which was basically the mid-2000’s edition of Breakdancing in NY. The movements come out of The Harlem Shake, the Aunt Jackie and various native Harlem dances that don’t originate in the south.



pay close attention to the brothers feet while dancing @ 0:40, notice that central move is prevalent across virtually all modern forms of NY dancing you see in the drill videos..


Note the constant double Dutch rhythm..it’s as though a rope is constantly spun.

They’re constantly hopping and spinning tapping their chests and shit like that..That’s the Master Juba mixed with the angst of Lindy-hopping, Black Harlem dances that predate the Great Migration.These are successors to the dances that specifically NY Aframs did during Pinkster celebrations which only existed in New York.

How Dutch Holiday “Pinkster” Became an African-American Cultural Celebration

Trace the roots of this celebration from a Dutch religious holiday to a celebration of Black culture and history.

nystateparks.blog

When you pretend it’s something else you disrespect the hundreds of Black people that were massacred during the Draft riots



now look at these two brothers from California who are dancing in the standard form of LA dance.Same shit YG and Chris Brown do.

you see how little their feet leave the ground and they kind of groove with their hips and shoulders to move? while the niggas from New York are constantly hopping about? That comes from the double Dutch rhythm , which is 100% authentically New York culture that didn’t exist in LA, the south, Jamaica,Puerto Rico. Which one of these groups would have an easier time jumping a rope?

These dudes argumentation would have you believe that the Tone Wop nigga in Harlem has influenced the modern LA street dance when infact it comes from the native pop lockin and gliding across the ground like (Crip-walking) NATIVE CALI DANCES. Dance is so important to hip hop that we can’t fudge up the history trying to fit political narratives into our greatest form of cultural expression.

this is how they’ll have you thinking brothers was spinning on cardboard to James Brown records…They shoehorn in bits of truth across decades, erase this, downplay that and paint this disjointed ass picture of the past to people who don’t know no better.

 

[Disanthrope]

I do think it's important people know the roots especially black people of something they created but aren't you doing the same thing as the "others" by claiming every or southern African Americans had a hand in making hip hop when new Yorkers are saying it's theirs solely?!?

@NinetyFree already stated you can find parts of what makes the whole in other forms of expression but the finished product is NYC's

What right does anyone else have to lay claim?

New York is rightfully recognized as the Mecca. But to award hip hop to New York opposed to the black American people of New York is the problem

The baby was born in New York, raised in New York but it was conceived down south nahmean

 

[Loch121]

Post is by no means directed @ the brother Loch I just wanna demonstrate specifically how these arguments works to undermine some African Americans in a bid to exalt others and marginalize Northern Blacks.

I grew up dancing LiteFeet, which was basically the mid-2000’s edition of Breakdancing in NY. The movements come out of The Harlem Shake, the Aunt Jackie and various native Harlem dances that don’t originate in the south.



pay close attention to the brothers feet while dancing @ 0:40, notice that central move is prevalent across virtually all modern forms of NY dancing you see in the drill videos..


Note the constant double Dutch rhythm..it’s as though a rope is constantly spun.

They’re constantly hopping and spinning tapping their chests and shit like that..That’s the Master Juba mixed with the angst of Lindy-hopping, Black Harlem dances that predate the Great Migration.These are successors to the dances that specifically NY Aframs did during Pinkster celebrations which only existed in New York.

How Dutch Holiday “Pinkster” Became an African-American Cultural Celebration

Trace the roots of this celebration from a Dutch religious holiday to a celebration of Black culture and history.

nystateparks.blog

When you pretend it’s something else you disrespect the hundreds of Black people that were massacred during the Draft riots



now look at these two brothers from California who are dancing in the standard form of LA dance.Same shit YG and Chris Brown do.

you see how little their feet leave the ground and they kind of groove with their hips and shoulders to move? while the niggas from New York are constantly hopping about? That comes from the double Dutch rhythm , which is 100% authentically New York culture that didn’t exist in LA, the south, Jamaica,Puerto Rico. Which one of these groups would have an easier time jumping a rope?

These dudes argumentation would have you believe that the Tone Wop nigga in Harlem has influenced the modern LA street dance when infact it comes from the native pop lockin and gliding across the ground like (Crip-walking) NATIVE CALI DANCES. Dance is so important to hip hop that we can’t fudge up the history trying to fit political narratives into our greatest form of cultural expression.

this is how they’ll have you thinking brothers was spinning on cardboard to James Brown records…They shoehorn in bits of truth across dec Nuersades, erase this, downplay that and paint this disjointed ass picture of the past to people who don’t know no better.

I take no offense

I love hip hop and I welcome the conversation

I grew up with Nyers and my closest friends are Queens and Brooklyn niggas.

I would never try to take the creation of hip hop away from NY because that wouldn't be truthful

This is a dope discussion

 

[GNS]

New York is rightfully recognized as the Mecca. But to award hip hop to New York opposed to the black American people of New York is the problem

The baby was born in New York, raised in New York but it was conceived down south nahmean

Sounds like you trying to spread the ownership.
Sounds fat joe-ish no diss

It's an American(African) art form, conceived in NYC. It takes a village and that village that reared hip hop was made of African Americans and Caribbean immigrants from what I can tell

 

[Disanthrope]

Sounds like you trying to spread the ownership.
Sounds fat joe-ish no diss

It's an American(African) art form, conceived in NYC. It takes a village and that village that reared hip hop was made of African Americans and Caribbean immigrants from what I can tell

Nah this is tethering sir

The living breathing pioneers said there was nobody else around

You can argue with me you can't argue with them

 

[Loch121]

Sounds like you trying to spread the ownership.
Sounds fat joe-ish no diss

It's an American(African) art form, conceived in NYC. It takes a village and that village that reared hip hop was made of African Americans and Caribbean immigrants from what I can tell

There were no doubt other ppl who were making hip hop early ,but I don't agree that it wouldn't exist w/ out them.

Like for instance there are foreign black ppl in ATL/Ga who I'm sure made or was around in early southern music or trap music but that doesn't mean they made it.

Usually they will assimilate into the American culture /environment around them kinda like most ppl.

So you'll find a foreign person who talks and acts like a Gucci Mane type nigga or ironically 21 savage who was born in England because they've assimilated into what was the black American culture around them.

 

[Disanthrope]

@GNS
A couple of brothers from Caribbean background does give co-creation to a whole other culture. That's literally tethering. We're putting an end to these false narratives and myths

Hip hop is influenced by Funk music and disco. All black American households were playing old Funk records, James Brown records. The comedy records, Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx. Watching Dolomite movies and other blackloitation flicks where they talk Jive

Hip Hop is comprised of 5 elements

Bboying - breakdancing
DJing
MCing - rapping
Graffiti
Knowledge

Nobody but black Americans created the five elements

Bboying in the 1920s

MCing in the 20s



DJing in the late 60s/early 70s



Graf in the 60s

Knowledge in the 60s

Respectfully we didn't get influence from anyone else.

Black Americans created hip hop alone

 

[GNS]

Nah this is tethering sir

The living breathing pioneers said there was nobody else around

You can argue with me you can't argue with them

I'm not about to argue with them.
Idk the build up ethnically of the bx around them times but I've maintained it's an African American art form that immigrants was around and helped build
Don't call me no tether tho

 

[Disanthrope]

Misinformation causes Smoke