HipHop Hasn't Done Anything Good For Black People
- Thread starter Goldie
- Start date
loud-ninja
Here to point out the illogical
You didn't quote my whole post. If you did, you would see I compared underprivileged /under funded schools to properly funded/ privileged schools.Let me recap.
Your Claim: “The kids that give "less then their full effort into their Education " are usually the ones that come from terrible schools. Schools where they are understaffed , don't have money, teachers that dont give a fuck, gangs in school, lack of resources, etc. Entertainment and sports are a way out for most in those types of environments.”
My counter claim: That’s a myth
Fact to support my counter claim: Black students underperform relative to other groups regardless of socioeconomic status or school resources.
Evidence to support my counter claim: Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb: A Story of Academic Disengagement (Ogbu,2003)
Money and School Performance: Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment (Ciotti, 1998) <=Which I referenced in an earlier post
You and @BlackRain both made the assertion that the lower school performance among Black students can be mainly attributed to lower resources. I disagreed and provided evidence that showed instances of Black students under performing even with similar access to resources. Y’all have provided ZERO evidence to back up your claims.
It is true that it’s my OPINION that the difference in performance can properly be attributed to a different set of values amongst the students. It’s an opinion and not fact because I have no way of proving “culture” empirically.
I think my reasoning is sound, but I understand you’re not willing to admit that maybe “Hip Hop Culture” and its norms aren’t necessarily conducive to academic or economic success.
Shit, @Inglewood_B ain’t even willing to admit that gangbanging(!) hasn’t done anything good for Black people.
So yeah y’all are hopeless.
You compared Black and whites in the same school and same financial middle class background. So in your example, funding wouldn't matter. But problems that were listed in that video is still there and has nothing to do with hip hop. Opinion vs facts is not a good debate at all.
But you called my example a myth. If you honestly believe funded and underfunded schools provide the same results for black students, then this debate is hopeless.
If a school is not properly funded, some of the following things can happen: large class sizes, fewer advanced classes, lack of resources, less experienced teachers. Teachers have to spend their money to buy kids supplies. Teachers burn out quicker.
Didn't know you needed proof on that but I'll get that for you. It will be easy to find because that is fact. I will be back later with the links. Got to step out for a moment
Let me recap.
Your Claim: “The kids that give "less then their full effort into their Education " are usually the ones that come from terrible schools. Schools where they are understaffed , don't have money, teachers that dont give a fuck, gangs in school, lack of resources, etc. Entertainment and sports are a way out for most in those types of environments.”
My counter claim: That’s a myth
Fact to support my counter claim: Black students underperform relative to other groups regardless of socioeconomic status or school resources.
Evidence to support my counter claim: Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb: A Story of Academic Disengagement (Ogbu,2003)
Money and School Performance: Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment (Ciotti, 1998) <=Which I referenced in an earlier post
You and @BlackRain both made the assertion that the lower school performance among Black students can be mainly attributed to lower resources. I disagreed and provided evidence that showed instances of Black students under performing even with similar access to resources. Y’all have provided ZERO evidence to back up your claims.
It is true that it’s my OPINION that the difference in performance can properly be attributed to a different set of values amongst the students. It’s an opinion and not fact because I have no way of proving “culture” empirically.
I think my reasoning is sound, but I understand you’re not willing to admit that maybe “Hip Hop Culture” and its norms aren’t necessarily conducive to academic or economic success.
Shit, @Inglewood_B ain’t even willing to admit that gangbanging(!) hasn’t done anything good for Black people.
So yeah y’all are hopeless
Still got it wrong. I named more than resources. That's a part of it but not the whole equation. Part of that nuance that's supposed to not be good for this topic
loud-ninja
Here to point out the illogical
@Stiff Here is your proof of underfunded schools and the impact it has. The second link is a bit more time consuming to read but they both get the point across. Shit was easy to find.
Andrew: The troubling inequity of education funding - San José Spotlight
Imagine two public schools within a 10-mile radius. Picture the classrooms, the technology and the students. Do you envision equality? Unfortunately, in today’s public education system, equality is nonexistent. Funding disparities perpetuate this inequality in education, and these discrepancies...
sanjosespotlight.com
The Impact of Inequitable School Funding: Solutions for Struggling Schools Without the Money to Fully Help Struggling Students | American Consortium for Equity in Education
By Howie Knoff, Ph.D., President of Project ACHIEVE Educational Solutions In 2024, we’ll reach the 70th anniversary of the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case. As we all know, this unanimous Supreme Court decision determined that state laws thatKeep Reading The Impact of Inequitable School...
www.ace-ed.org
Stiff
Legion of Trill
@Stiff Here is your proof of underfunded schools and the impact it has. The second link is a bit more time consuming to read but they both get the point across. Shit was easy to find.
Andrew: The troubling inequity of education funding - San José Spotlight
Imagine two public schools within a 10-mile radius. Picture the classrooms, the technology and the students. Do you envision equality? Unfortunately, in today’s public education system, equality is nonexistent. Funding disparities perpetuate this inequality in education, and these discrepancies...
The Impact of Inequitable School Funding: Solutions for Struggling Schools Without the Money to Fully Help Struggling Students | American Consortium for Equity in Education
By Howie Knoff, Ph.D., President of Project ACHIEVE Educational Solutions In 2024, we’ll reach the 70th anniversary of the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case. As we all know, this unanimous Supreme Court decision determined that state laws thatKeep Reading The Impact of Inequitable School...
These articles aren’t proof. The first one is an editorial (ie. Opinion). The second one correlates poverty to poor school performance which isn’t in dispute; but correlation is not causation.
You’d have a case if you could give an example of a school that was receiving poor funding, went on to receive adequate funding and then observed notable improvements in scholastic achievement.
To support my point (Black students generally underperform regardless of funding or resources) I gave two specific case studies that supported it.
We disagree on WHY that is.
Inori
NAWF
It ain't cause of hip hop that's for sure
Inglewood_B
OG
Shit, @Inglewood_B ain’t even willing to admit that gangbanging(!) hasn’t done anything good for Black people.
So yeah y’all are hopeless
Oh word…?
Now why you get on here and lie like my unedited post ain’t right there? I answered immediately when you tried to go there.
Stiff
Legion of Trill
Nah b you lying. The post of yours you just quoted was in response to this:
When I followed up with
You left the thread, never to be heard from again.
Stiff
Legion of Trill
And that’s your opinion.It ain't cause of hip hop that's for sure
Inglewood_B
OG
I left the thread to go to work, man… I don’t live on ABW.
I didn’t answer because you asked yet ANOTHER useless rhetorical question and I already seen where you were going with it. The answer is stil the same. It’s no.
Now what? And don’t answer my question with another question
Stiff
Legion of Trill
If you’re not able to say that Gangbanging has never done anything for the Black community then of course you’re not going to say hip hop has been detrimental.
Lol we’re done.
Inglewood_B
OG
I’m saying no it’s not good for the community. And yeah we are done. Youve brought nothing to this discussion.
Gray Matter
Active Member
The video clearly doesn't back up what I initially said. Very Clearly. So why would I post it as "proof"?
Let's put the video aside because what you're saying is just dumb.
Can you understand the concept of "If things had been different in certain ways, we would have had more of x"? We have a few billionaires. But do you really think that we couldn't have had much more? And it's not just billionaires, but millionaires and owner of small businesses too. We would have had more at every level. I just mentioned billionaires for obvious reasons.
loud-ninja
Here to point out the illogical
I don't know what to tell you then. You have yet realized you are not debating my point with a proper comparison. Under privileged schools vs privileged schools. One will have more students that get careers in some of the fields gray matter listed. That is not debatable. If one high school has a computer programming class and the other doesn't, which school is most likely to have the most students continue with computer programming after high school? That was the main argument.
The book and video gave you multiple reasons why for your example but you still think it is hip hop culture. Nasty work. In a debate, Opinions don't matter so not sure why you brought it up.
Poverty and underfunded schools go hand and hand. It relates to how those schools get funding. It seems you want it to be one main issue but there are many. School funding is not the only thing that needs to happen but it is one of the issues. Properly funded schools help.
Gray Matter
Active Member
Let me recap.
Your Claim: “The kids that give "less then their full effort into their Education " are usually the ones that come from terrible schools. Schools where they are understaffed , don't have money, teachers that dont give a fuck, gangs in school, lack of resources, etc. Entertainment and sports are a way out for most in those types of environments.”
My counter claim: That’s a myth
Fact to support my counter claim: Black students underperform relative to other groups regardless of socioeconomic status or school resources.
Evidence to support my counter claim: Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb: A Story of Academic Disengagement (Ogbu,2003)
Money and School Performance: Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment (Ciotti, 1998) <=Which I referenced in an earlier post
You and @BlackRain both made the assertion that the lower school performance among Black students can be mainly attributed to lower resources. I disagreed and provided evidence that showed instances of Black students under performing even with similar access to resources. Y’all have provided ZERO evidence to back up your claims.
It is true that it’s my OPINION that the difference in performance can properly be attributed to a different set of values amongst the students. It’s an opinion and not fact because I have no way of proving “culture” empirically.
I think my reasoning is sound, but I understand you’re not willing to admit that maybe “Hip Hop Culture” and its norms aren’t necessarily conducive to academic or economic success.
Shit, @Inglewood_B ain’t even willing to admit that gangbanging(!) hasn’t done anything good for Black people.
So yeah y’all are hopeless
If that dude was even minimally informed, he would know that what you're saying must be right. Some conservatives (even some liberals) have been saying for decades that affirmative action should be class-based, not race-based. But the well-known reason why most liberals and left wing people have resisted this is because even middle class blacks underperform academically. So a class-based AA wouldn't help them.
loud-ninja
Here to point out the illogical
Yall got it. Yall talking bout Opinions.
Stiff
Legion of Trill
I was gonna make a thread asking but I was sure it would be avoided.