HipHop Hasn't Done Anything Good For Black People

[The Lonious Monk]

So you don't think that there's a lot of untapped potential among black people?

I am not saying the people in those professions are billionaires and millionaires. Reread what I said:



This should be very clear.

I am sure that many millionaire owners of engineering companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. were first regular engineers, pharmacists, etc. until they sized on an opportunity to launch their own business, or create their own product.

Sure, there is untapped potential in the black community, but Hip Hop isn't the primary or even a major factor for why that potential isn't being tapped and with all the challenges Americans and Black Americans in general face, it's crazy to act like Hip Hop is the major thing holding those people back. I know what you said, and I disagree. Increasing the number of scientists and engineers in the community isn't going to really increase the number of black millionaires or billionaires. The average scientist or engineer doesn't go on to own a million or billion dollar company. People like that are rare. Even if we assume that getting rid of Hip Hop would lead to a rise of people in those jobs (which isn't even a good assumption), its unlikely that rise would offset all the black millionaires that would disappear if there was not Hip Hop.

lol. You're wrong. He is blaming hip hop culture. What he's saying is that we can't totally divorce hip hop culture from the mainstream.

He's not. You don't even seem to understand your own source. The full article is locked behind a paywall, but from what I was able to read he's saying that young black males commit themselves to indulging in the "culture of cool," but he clearly points out that that indulgence isn't what keeps them from achieving. It's their inability to prioritize other more important things over being cool. You're really missing the point. If Hip Hop was seen as lame tomorrow, and black boys moved on to listening to techno or some shit, then that would become the new cool thing and nothing would change because the problem being addressed in the article isn't what's seen as cool. The problem is the addiction those boys have to being seen as cool. Now maybe you could argue that if they were clinging to a culture where being smart was seen as cool, then things would be better. Maybe that's true, but that's not really the case for any youth. It's not like white boys are out there propping up nerds as the pinnacle of high school society.

 

[Gray Matter]

He's not. You don't even seem to understand your own source. The full article is locked behind a paywall, but from what I was able to read he's saying that young black males commit themselves to indulging in the "culture of cool," but he clearly points out that that indulgence isn't what keeps them from achieving. It's their inability to prioritize other more important things over being cool. You're really missing the point. If Hip Hop was seen as lame tomorrow, and black boys moved on to listening to techno or some shit, then that would become the new cool thing and nothing would change because the problem being addressed in the article isn't what's seen as cool. The problem is the addiction those boys have to being seen as cool. Now maybe you could argue that if they were clinging to a culture where being smart was seen as cool, then things would be better. Maybe that's true, but that's not really the case for any youth. It's not like white boys are out there propping up nerds as the pinnacle of high school society.

Lol You just refuted your own point. Whatever it is that is seen as "cool" can be more or less antithetical to or in tension with academic excellence.

And he is blaming hip hop, both in that NYT piece and in some of his other writings. Dude is known (among other things) for arguing that we have to take into account how structural factors interact with cultural factors to explain the persistence of racial inequality. You don't even have full access to this article and you're going to try to tell me that he's not blaming hip hop? Okay.

 

[BlackRain]

By the way, hip hop is the way it is because of racial oppression.

Racism created the ghetto, and at some point the ghetto fundamentally shaped hip hop. (Compare hip hop pre 1993 or so, and what came later.) So without racial oppression, hip hop (if it existed at all) would look very different.

Exactly. Change the circumstances that help create and move hip hop forward and you get a change in it overall. Which is why we keep saying hip hop ain't the issue that it's being made out to be.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Lol You just refuted your own point. Whatever it is that is seen as "cool" can be more or less antithetical to or in tension with academic excellence.

And he is blaming hip hop, both in that NYT piece and in some of his other writings. Dude is known (among other things) for arguing that we have to take into account how structural factors interact with cultural factors to explain the persistence of racial inequality. You don't even have full access to this article and you're going to try to tell me that he's not blaming hip hop? Okay.

You just throwing words out bro. There is nothing intrinsic to Hip Hop that automatically causes people to not perform academically. You can go to any HBCU in the country and 99.9% of the people there probably listen to Hip Hop, yet there is plenty of academic excellence to be found at those schools. Sure, there might be a correlation between some do-nothing youths and listening to Hip Hop, but that doesn't prove causation. Frankly, your whole way of thinking in this matter is pretty lazy.

I haven't read all the dudes other works, but if they are anything like this one, he's probably didn't say what you're claiming he said in them either. No one is arguing that culture can't or doesn't have a negative impact. on the community What I'm saying is that the excerpt that you posted does not say that Hip Hop is the reason young black men are failing. He's saying the addiction they have to prioritizing being cool over everything else is what is to blame. Again, in the very work you posted, he pointed out that other people listened to Hip Hop too and didn't have that problem. So clearly, he's not putting nearly as much blame on Hip Hop itself as you are.

 

[SeaSnake]

You just throwing words out bro. There is nothing intrinsic to Hip Hop that automatically causes people to not perform academically. You can go to any HBCU in the country and 99.9% of the people there probably listen to Hip Hop, yet there is plenty of academic excellence to be found at those schools. Sure, there might be a correlation between some do-nothing youths and listening to Hip Hop, but that doesn't prove causation. Frankly, your whole way of thinking in this matter is pretty lazy.

I haven't read all the dudes other works, but if they are anything like this one, he's probably didn't say what you're claiming he said in them either. No one is arguing that culture can't or doesn't have a negative impact. on the community What I'm saying is that the excerpt that you posted does not say that Hip Hop is the reason young black men are failing. He's saying the addiction they have to prioritizing being cool over everything else is what is to blame. Again, in the very work you posted, he pointed out that other people listened to Hip Hop too and didn't have that problem. So clearly, he's not putting nearly as much blame on Hip Hop itself as you are.

My dad grew up in the 50s and 60s in the ghetto and stated wanting to be cool caused him to get into trouble and not take school serious.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

My dad grew up in the 50s and 60s in the ghetto and stated wanting to be cool caused him to get into trouble and not take school serious.

Yes, again, I don't think dude is reading his own source. The writer basically talks about how black culture has impacted the world and that's brought a sense of pride to some black people and that pride causes those people to cling to certain identities. The writer is basically trying to explain the virus that causes the disease (i.e., the need to be cool) and @Gray Matter is hung up on the writer mentioning a particular symptom of the disease (i.e., partaking obsessively in Hip Hop culture).

 

[AP3.0]

Been in my True Crime bag the past couple of weeks

This case I'm listening to now involves two white kids who wanted to be horror movie directors to make films like Scream end up killing their high school classmate wearing masks and shit.

They recorded everything leading up to them going back to the house she was staying at and they are listening to Pink Floyd... Wild

 

[Gray Matter]

You just throwing words out bro. There is nothing intrinsic to Hip Hop that automatically causes people to not perform academically. You can go to any HBCU in the country and 99.9% of the people there probably listen to Hip Hop, yet there is plenty of academic excellence to be found at those schools. Sure, there might be a correlation between some do-nothing youths and listening to Hip Hop, but that doesn't prove causation. Frankly, your whole way of thinking in this matter is pretty lazy.

I haven't read all the dudes other works, but if they are anything like this one, he's probably didn't say what you're claiming he said in them either. No one is arguing that culture can't or doesn't have a negative impact. on the community What I'm saying is that the excerpt that you posted does not say that Hip Hop is the reason young black men are failing. He's saying the addiction they have to prioritizing being cool over everything else is what is to blame. Again, in the very work you posted, he pointed out that other people listened to Hip Hop too and didn't have that problem. So clearly, he's not putting nearly as much blame on Hip Hop itself as you are.

Listen, the fact that you think that "You can go to any HBCU in the country and 99.9% of the people there probably listen to Hip Hop, yet there is plenty of academic excellence to be found at those schools" somehow tells against my position tells me that this exchange is a waste of my time.

 

[SeaSnake]

Listen, the fact that you think that "You can go to any HBCU in the country and 99.9% of the people there probably listen to Hip Hop, yet there is plenty of academic excellence to be found at those schools" somehow tells against my position tells me that this exchange is a waste of my time.

lol how you know he not an hbcu graduate? Bruh idk if Canada has HBCUs or if they needed them because I don’t know the laws on segregation. But if you don’t think black college kids listen to hip hop and still graduate then you’d be wrong.

 

[Gray Matter]

lol how you know he not an hbcu graduate? Bruh idk if Canada has HBCUs or if they needed them because I don’t know the laws on segregation. But if you don’t think black college kids listen to hip hop and still graduate then you’d be wrong.

My goodness.

What I was saying in that post is that the fact that dude mentions -- about academic excellence at HCBUs -- DOES NOT tell against my position.

Only by seriously misunderstanding it could anyone think to bring that up as some kind of argument against me.

In fact, I am, to some extent, the living embodiment of the idea that love for hip hop and academic excellence can co-exist in a person.

There are other, better examples. I remember that there was a rapper who was a graduate of Colgate (I think) who won a Rhodes scholarship and later went to Harvard Law.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

My goodness.

What I was saying in that post is that the fact that dude mentions -- about academic excellence at HCBUs -- DOES NOT tell against my position.

Only by seriously misunderstanding it could anyone think to bring that up as some kind of argument against me.

In fact, I am, to some extent, the living embodiment of the idea that love for hip hop and academic excellence can co-exist in a person.

There are other, better examples. I remember that there was a rapper who was a graduate of Colgate (I think) who won a Rhodes scholarship and later went to Harvard Law.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to say that going to an HBCU can't coincide with academic excellence? If not, I really don't know what point you're trying to make.

 

[Gray Matter]

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to say that going to an HBCU can't coincide with academic excellence? If not, I really don't know what point you're trying to make.

That's crazy thought to have after reading what I wrote.

What I meant was the rapper that I mentioned who went to Harvard Law is a better example of someone embodying academic excellence and love of hip hop than myself. Also thought of mentioning J. Cole.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

That's crazy thought to have after reading what I wrote.

What I meant was the rapper that I mentioned who went to Harvard Law is a better example of someone embodying academic excellence and love of hip hop than myself. Also thought of mentioning J. Cole.

That doesn't have anything to do with what I said. I mentioned that you can go to an HBCU (brought up because the population at those schools is mostly black) and you said that you and some dude that went to Harvard are better examples of people who love hip hop and excel. What else were we supposed to think after reading your post. You may think you were saying something, but just trust me that whatever point you were trying to make didn't come of the way you intended.

 

[Gray Matter]

That doesn't have anything to do with what I said. I mentioned that you can go to an HBCU (brought up because the population at those schools is mostly black) and you said that you and some dude that went to Harvard are better examples of people who love hip hop and excel. What else were we supposed to think after reading your post. You may think you were saying something, but just trust me that whatever point you were trying to make didn't come of the way you intended.

Man, you are not nearly as smart as you think.

The whole point of my two replies was that I was mystified -- outraged even -- that you would think that black academic excellence at HCBUs is somehow a counterexample to what I was arguing.

That means that I accepted that there are many students at HCBUs who excel, who are black and who love hip hop.

Only some kind of fool could fail to see that.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Man, you are not nearly as smart as you think.

The whole point of my two replies was that I was mystified -- outraged even -- that you would think that black academic excellence at HCBUs is somehow a counterexample to what I was arguing.

That means that I accepted that there are many students at HCBUs who excel, who are black and who love hip hop.

Only some kind of fool could fail to see that.

If you acknowledge that HBCUs are good examples then what was the point of even bringing up others cases? You could have just agreed and kept moving. I didn't think you even know what you're arguing anymore. You're just banging on keys at this point. The convo has run its course. Be easy.