HipHop Hasn't Done Anything Good For Black People

[Dwayne]

Then maybe stop with your personal made up espn stats about nearly all rap music as if you consume nearly all rap music. And stop conflating your pov with those who are saying that.

Let’s go song for song and we will see about made up numbers.

 

[BlackRain]

Let’s go song for song and we will see about made up numbers.

Lol. You think somebody about to sit and go through the millions of rap songs ever made? Nigga you don't even have the time for that. And that's why your statement is nonsensical. Even you couldn't prove it and you're the one who made thr claim so that onus would be on you and not some challenge for you to put up.

 

[Gray Matter]

.

If Hip-hop didn't exist ever ....






Human beings including black people would still peddle/deal/consume drugs and gangbang and murder people



But I'm "dumb" though

You have missed virtually every fucking thing everyone has said in this thread.

And I know you participated in these same debates back on the IC too.

Pay attention!

Now for this particular post. Hip hop doesn't have to be the sole cause of some problem to contribute to it.

This is elementary, and yet I had to say it.

 

[rip.dilla]

.


You have missed virtually every fucking thing everyone has said in this thread.

And I know you participated in these same debates back on the IC too.

Pay attention!

Now for this particular post. Hip hop doesn't have to be the sole cause of some problem to contribute to it.

This is elementary, and yet I had to say it.

First off


I personally don't think you're a black person... You spew a lot of bullshit ... Saying if black people didn't consume HIP-HOP music they'd be more career professionals and millionaires and billionaires?


Don't qoute me .. just hit your reactions and keep it moving

 

[Freeman]

Ahh the ol "you're not black" backdoor.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Ahh the ol "you're not black" backdoor.

I mean...claiming that Hip Hop is what's keeping black people from becoming millionaires and billionaires is a wild take. lol

 

[Gray Matter]

I mean...claiming that Hip Hop is what's keeping black people from becoming millionaires and billionaires is a wild take. lol

Again, this post shows that you're not paying attention.

I don't believe that anyone would say that it is the only reason. Probably not even the main reason. But I think it's a reason.

And really, it follows from the prior claim that it depresses black (esp black male) academic achievement. If there are more black engineers, scientists, computer programmers, and pharmacists, and so on, that increases the chances that there would be more black billionaires and millionaires.

So if you are going to deny that there would be more black millionaires and billionaires but for hip hop, you're going to have to deny that black people would be more educated but for hip hop.

 

[BlackRain]

Again, this post shows that you're not paying attention.

I don't believe that anyone would say that it is the only reason. Probably not even the main reason. But I think it's a reason.

And really, it follows from the prior claim that it depresses black (esp black male) academic achievement. If there are more black engineers, scientists, computer programmers, and pharmacists, and so on, that increases the chances that there would be more black billionaires and millionaires.

So if you are going to deny that there would be more black millionaires and billionaires but for hip hop, you're going to have to deny that black people would be more educated but for hip hop.

Lol becoming a billioinare, and a certain level of millionaire has more to do with a person's ability to exploit and manipulate their surroundings and the people around them than listening to words delivered in a rhyming format. It ain't as simple as "become a scientist and you'll be rich".

 

[Gray Matter]

Lol becoming a billioinare, and a certain level of millionaire has more to do with a person's ability to exploit and manipulate their surroundings and the people around them than listening to words delivered in a rhyming format. It ain't as simple as "become a scientist and you'll be rich".

What do you think I'm arguing? Because the best sense I can make of this is that you're somehow misunderstanding me.

 

[BlackRain]

What do you think I'm arguing? Because the best sense I can make of this is that you're somehow misunderstanding me.

You're arguing that hip hop is one of the causes of a lack of focus on education among young Black kids. Thus leading to a lack of careers in which could lead them to a certain level of prosperity. And the idea that hip hop is the reason why kids aren't becoming scientists, engineers, attorneys etc, which is funny because you listed occupations that can and often directly intersect with hip hop, is pretty silly.

 

[Gray Matter]

One of the America's most distinguished black scholars, Orlando Patterson, has also put the finger on hip culture (in part) as contributing to black male underachievement in school.

I remember reading this in 2006:

Several years ago, one of my students went back to her high school to find out why it was that almost all the black girls graduated and went to college whereas nearly all the black boys either failed to graduate or did not go on to college. Distressingly, she found that all the black boys knew the consequences of not graduating and going on to college ("We're not stupid!" they told her indignantly).
SO why were they flunking out? Their candid answer was that what sociologists call the "cool-pose culture" of young black men was simply too gratifying to give up. For these young men, it was almost like a drug, hanging out on the street after school, shopping and dressing sharply, sexual conquests, party drugs, hip-hop music and culture, the fact that almost all the superstar athletes and a great many of the nation's best entertainers were black.

Not only was living this subculture immensely fulfilling, the boys said, it also brought them a great deal of respect from white youths. This also explains the otherwise puzzling finding by social psychologists that young black men and women tend to have the highest levels of self-esteem of all ethnic groups, and that their self-image is independent of how badly they were doing in school.

I call this the Dionysian trap for young black men. The important thing to note about the subculture that ensnares them is that it is not disconnected from the mainstream culture. To the contrary, it has powerful support from some of America's largest corporations. Hip-hop, professional basketball and homeboy fashions are as American as cherry pie. Young white Americans are very much into these things, but selectively; they know when it is time to turn off Fifty Cent and get out the SAT prep book.

For young black men, however, that culture is all there is -- or so they think.

Opinion | A Poverty of the Mind (Published 2006)

Harvard University Prof Orlando Patterson Op-Ed article notes that several recent studies have reconfirmed tragic disconnection of millions of black youths from American mainstream; holds that studies also highlighted failure of social scientists to adequately explain problem, and their...

www.nytimes.com

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Again, this post shows that you're not paying attention.

I don't believe that anyone would say that it is the only reason. Probably not even the main reason. But I think it's a reason.

And really, it follows from the prior claim that it depresses black (esp black male) academic achievement. If there are more black engineers, scientists, computer programmers, and pharmacists, and so on, that increases the chances that there would be more black billionaires and millionaires.

So if you are going to deny that there would be more black millionaires and billionaires but for hip hop, you're going to have to deny that black people would be more educated but for hip hop.

First of all, I'm absolutely going to deny that black people would be more educated if not for Hip Hop. Ya'll going to have to provide some proof for wild claims like that. Even if I grant you that Hip Hop has had a negative impact on some people in our community. I haven't seen anything that suggests that those people would go on to be scholars if not for Hip Hop. That's a crazy assertion to make with no evidence at all.

On top of that, where are you getting this idea that engineers, scientists, programmers, and pharmacists are millionaires and billionaires. Most people making money like that aren't in those professions. The people making huge money are the people that either know how to milk capitalism or people who have talents/skills that can be exploited for extreme games within capitalism. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Hip Hop disappearing would lead to a significant uptick in the number of millionaires and billionaires especially when you account for all the black millionaires that exist because of Hip Hop.

 

[BlackRain]

One of the America's most distinguished black scholars, Orlando Patterson, has also put the finger on hip culture (in part) as contributing to black male underachievement in school.

I remember reading this in 2006:

Opinion | A Poverty of the Mind (Published 2006)

Harvard University Prof Orlando Patterson Op-Ed article notes that several recent studies have reconfirmed tragic disconnection of millions of black youths from American mainstream; holds that studies also highlighted failure of social scientists to adequately explain problem, and their...

www.nytimes.com

Those things mentioned aren't the fault of hip hop. It's the fault of the environments those kids are in to where the difference between entertainment and real life is blurred. Removing hip hop wouldn't change much because the circumstances would still exist

 

[The Lonious Monk]

One of the America's most distinguished black scholars, Orlando Patterson, has also put the finger on hip culture (in part) as contributing to black male underachievement in school.

I remember reading this in 2006:

Opinion | A Poverty of the Mind (Published 2006)

Harvard University Prof Orlando Patterson Op-Ed article notes that several recent studies have reconfirmed tragic disconnection of millions of black youths from American mainstream; holds that studies also highlighted failure of social scientists to adequately explain problem, and their...

www.nytimes.com

Bro, I don't know if you're being disingenuous or don't understand what you're reading. That article is not saying that Hip Hop culture was contributing to black male underachievement. It's saying that black boys latch on to the lure of maintaining a "cool" image and prioritize that over excelling in the future. Hip Hop is just the facade on the surface. It's not the actual problem. The part you referenced says as much.

I call this the Dionysian trap for young black men. The important thing to note about the subculture that ensnares them is that it is not disconnected from the mainstream culture. To the contrary, it has powerful support from some of America's largest corporations. Hip-hop, professional basketball and homeboy fashions are as American as cherry pie. Young white Americans are very much into these things, but selectively; they know when it is time to turn off Fifty Cent and get out the SAT prep book.

It's right there. The problem as the writer explains is not Hip Hop. It's that unlike kids from other communities, young black boys aren't as able to properly set their priorities. Trying to blame Hip Hop is actually dangerous in this case because it's obfuscates the real problem. You could get rid of Hip Hop, and that wouldn't solve anything. The young black boys being referenced here would just move on to the new "cool" thing.

 

[Gray Matter]

First of all, I'm absolutely going to deny that black people would be more educated if not for Hip Hop. Ya'll going to have to provide some proof for wild claims like that. Even if I grant you that Hip Hop has had a negative impact on some people in our community. I haven't seen anything that suggests that those people would go on to be scholars if not for Hip Hop. That's a crazy assertion to make with no evidence at all.

On top of that, where are you getting this idea that engineers, scientists, programmers, and pharmacists are millionaires and billionaires. Most people making money like that aren't in those professions. The people making huge money are the people that either know how to milk capitalism or people who have talents/skills that can be exploited for extreme games within capitalism. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Hip Hop disappearing would lead to a significant uptick in the number of millionaires and billionaires especially when you account for all the black millionaires that exist because of Hip Hop.

So you don't think that there's a lot of untapped potential among black people?

I am not saying the people in those professions are billionaires and millionaires. Reread what I said:

If there are more black engineers, scientists, computer programmers, and pharmacists, and so on, that increases the chances that there would be more black billionaires and millionaires.

This should be very clear.

I am sure that many millionaire owners of engineering companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. were first regular engineers, pharmacists, etc. until they sized on an opportunity to launch their own business, or create their own product.

 

[Gray Matter]

Bro, I don't know if you're being disingenuous or don't understand what you're reading. That article is not saying that Hip Hop culture was contributing to black male underachievement. It's saying that black boys latch on to the lure of maintaining a "cool" image and prioritize that over excelling in the future. Hip Hop is just the facade on the surface. It's not the actual problem. The part you referenced says as much.



It's right there. The problem as the writer explains is not Hip Hop. It's that unlike kids from other communities, young black boys aren't as able to properly set their priorities. Trying to blame Hip Hop is actually dangerous in this case because it's obfuscates the real problem. You could get rid of Hip Hop, and that wouldn't solve anything. The young black boys being referenced here would just move on to the new "cool" thing.

lol. You're wrong. He is blaming hip hop culture. What he's saying is that we can't totally divorce hip hop culture from the mainstream.

 

[BlackRain]

So you don't think that there's a lot of untapped potential among black people?

I am not saying the people in those professions are billionaires and millionaires. Reread what I said:



This should be very clear.

I am sure that many millionaire owners of engineering companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. were first regular engineers, pharmacists, etc. until they sized on an opportunity to launch their own business, or create their own product.

Removing hip hop without changing the circumstances that lead people to identify with whatever aspect they do wouldn't lead to that change. You'd just have a void where something else would be created to fill that void. Breaking news...teenage boys want their peers to think they're cool. That's not really a grand development.

 

[Gray Matter]

Removing hip hop without changing the circumstances that lead people to identify with whatever aspect they do wouldn't lead to that change. You'd just have a void where something else would be created to fill that void. Breaking news...teenage boys want their peers to think they're cool. That's not really a grand development.

You may be right about this. But this doesn't mean that hip hop is not a problem.

Also, I don't necessarily want to get rid of hip hop. Just recognize its flaws and try to shape it into something better.

 

[AP3.0]

We bkye!!!!

 

[Gray Matter]

Removing hip hop without changing the circumstances that lead people to identify with whatever aspect they do wouldn't lead to that change. You'd just have a void where something else would be created to fill that void. Breaking news...teenage boys want their peers to think they're cool. That's not really a grand development.

By the way, hip hop is the way it is because of racial oppression.

Racism created the ghetto, and at some point the ghetto fundamentally shaped hip hop. (Compare hip hop pre 1993 or so, and what came later.) So without racial oppression, hip hop (if it existed at all) would look very different.