konceptjones
The one between three and three.
Welp... that's been pretty well debunked.
Guns in America
- Thread starter ImaInfluenza
- Start date
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
so because there are stupid people out there
no one can responsibly own a gun by ur logic?
but if I say there are a few criminals out there that justify me protecting myself
that isn't justification enough in ur eyes for me to maintain gun ownership
make it make sense bruh
The idea that people are either irresponsible or stupid is a problem. It's not reality. The mass shootings seem to done by people who have a history that point to stupidity, mental instability, or hatred. However, a lot of these crazy stories that kinda fly under the radar are perpetrated by everyday average citizens that for whatever reason just spaz out.
To me that's the major problem with guns being so accessible in this country. Americans in general don't seem to be very stable. A guy can have a clean background and handle his guns responsibly for years, and then lose his job and go shoot up a bunch of people. It's not like shit like that happens everyday, but it does happen frequently enough to make some of us question why we continue to allow this.
Eyerone
(i·ro·ny)
I hear you. But it’s MILLIONS of gun owners in America. The percentage of responsible gun owners outweighs the percentage of legal gun owners that commit mass murder.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
I believe that, but the issue isn't really the percentage of bad gun owners vs good gun owners. The problem is that Americans seem increasingly unstable, and all these people that are basically a razor's edge away from doing something stupid have access to killing tools. It's not just mass murders. Guns are used for suicides and all flavors of homicides too. The genie's out of the bottle now, but the general public probably never should have been allowed to have unfettered access to guns.
Eyerone
(i·ro·ny)
I hear what you saying. But when you compare the percentage of fringe folk to responsible gun owners in America, it’s like a ridiculously low percentage.
konceptjones
The one between three and three.
Honestly, this argument could be made for other things like alcohol and weed. Millions of people were responsible drinkers during the time leading up to the 18th amendment. Sure some folks literally drank themselves to death, became violent, and have committed acts of murder after getting drunk, but the millions of people that drank responsibly dwarfed those numbers. We still made a constitutional amendment banning alcohol across the board. The result? A sharp increase in crime and organized crime units/families only gained numbers and strength which included political strength in the form of bribes to everyone. While drunkeness declined, the resulting industry and crime associated with it that sprung up was not what anyone had anticipated. Eventually the fact that the 18th amendment was largely considered a failure in what it set out to do couldn't be ignored and the 21st amendment was ratified, repealing alcohol prohibition.
If you think for two seconds that an entire industry for illegal gun manufacture wouldn't spring up behind a total ban, you're wrong. I highly encourage you to watch this:
%7C(0%2C0%2C0%2C0)%7C(0%2C600)%7C(0%2C240)%22%7D%2C%7B%22overlay%22%3A%7B%22position%22%3A%22SouthEast%7C(30%2C30)%22%2C%22operations%22%3A%5B%7B%22image%22%3A%22image_manager%7Cf890cc54-87e0-409e-9887-56c856e409fb%22%7D%2C%7B%22resize%22%3A%22204x204%7Cmax%22%7D%2C%7B%22extent%22%3A%22204x204%22%7D%5D%7D%7D%2C%5D)
https://www.hulu.com/series/underworld-inc-8717a89d-a0e3-49fe-8096-c74c1273c9c9
The black market can be brutal, exploitative and corrupt. Nothing is off-limits, everything is for sale, and what you buy may not be what it seems.
www.hulu.com
The first episode of S1 is called "Ghost Guns" and in it you'll watch gunsmiths in the boondocks of the Philippines take scrap metal and turn them into perfect, untraceable Colt 1911 clones. I guarantee you people in this country would start making guns and bullets illegally and the organized crime that would spring up around that would be far worse than anything we've seen.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
Honestly, this argument could be made for other things like alcohol and weed. Millions of people were responsible drinkers during the time leading up to the 18th amendment. Sure some folks literally drank themselves to death, became violent, and have committed acts of murder after getting drunk, but the millions of people that drank responsibly dwarfed those numbers. We still made a constitutional amendment banning alcohol across the board. The result? A sharp increase in crime and organized crime units/families only gained numbers and strength which included political strength in the form of bribes to everyone. While drunkeness declined, the resulting industry and crime associated with it that sprung up was not what anyone had anticipated. Eventually the fact that the 18th amendment was largely considered a failure in what it set out to do couldn't be ignored and the 21st amendment was ratified, repealing alcohol prohibition.
If you think for two seconds that an entire industry for illegal gun manufacture wouldn't spring up behind a total ban, you're wrong. I highly encourage you to watch this:
https://www.hulu.com/series/underworld-inc-8717a89d-a0e3-49fe-8096-c74c1273c9c9
The black market can be brutal, exploitative and corrupt. Nothing is off-limits, everything is for sale, and what you buy may not be what it seems.
The first episode of S1 is called "Ghost Guns" and in it you'll watch gunsmiths in the boondocks of the Philippines take scrap metal and turn them into perfect, untraceable Colt 1911 clones. I guarantee you people in this country would start making guns and bullets illegally and the organized crime that would spring up around that would be far worse than anything we've seen.
I get what you're saying, but the difference between guns and alcohol is that killing is the intended purpose of guns not a side effect of being irresponsible with them. These people that are shooting people on their porch just cause...are using those guns for their intended purpose and in their minds they think they are justified.
Just a mass takeaway of guns won't work, but I do think we can impose rules that would slow roll purchasing so that in future generations gun ownership isn't as prevalent as it is now.
TheNightKing
J.A.P.A.N.
This is what I keep saying every time makes the false equivalency of knives, cars, etc. being used for mass murder. Purpose of the tool matters, and a gun’s intended purpose is to kill.
konceptjones
The one between three and three.
And yet, regardless of that, alcohol kills nearly three times as many people as guns do.
Gun ownership is already significantly lower than the 60's and 70's, at least legal gun ownership anyways. In fact, we'd probably be at the lowest point in the last 40-50 years if it wasn't for Covid. Covid caused an uptick in first time gun purchases because of fears surrounding the lockdowns and possible mass quarantines and shit like that. This generation largely doesn't know anything about a gun in the house as opposed to when I was a kid and damned near everybody I knew had parents with a gun in the crib (usually a shottie but a few handguns). Lotta women back then carried revolvers in their purses and shit. That ain't the case nowadays. So we're already in this era where gun ownership simply isn't as prevalent as generations before it. Again, I'm only referencing legal ownership here. Street guns are a whole different ball of wax.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
First, saying alcohol kills nearly three times as many people as guns do is dubious. Might alcohol be involved in a lot of deaths? Sure, is alcohol directly responsible in all those deaths? That's a stretch. The alcohol doesn't kill or isn't used to kill a person in a dispute just because the too people are drunk. The gun however absolutely is used to kill the person. This is a false equivalence. Alcohol can be problematic, but again outside of the relatively rare cases of alcohol poisoning or the deaths that come from health complications resulting from years of alcohol abuse, alcohol is not the direct cause of the deaths you're talking about.
Aside from that, I get you, but even with legal guns, everybody doesn't need them. I'm not sure about this year, but in recent years the stats show us that guns in households are more likely to be used against other people in the household than against people trying to attack the household. Most of the time, those are legally owned. Let's be real, there are a lot of shitty people out there who are responsible with their guns. Responsible =/= not a threat.
konceptjones
The one between three and three.
Jussayin... The number of gun deaths for, IIRC 2022, was around 49,000.
Alcohol-Related Deaths
States and communities can reduce deaths due to excessive drinking.
www.cdc.gov
"Excessive alcohol use was responsible for more than 140,000 deaths in the United States each year during 2015–2019"
Yes, and of those stats, how many people actually did die from a gunshot from someone in the house??? If there were 49,000 gun deaths in a year, I'm willing to bet that only a tiny number of those were due to someone else in the house they lived in pulling the trigger. Those same stats most likely include accidental discharge and suicide, which is what I'm willing to bet are the vast majority of those deaths. So, yeah, that stat makes sense when you look at it as a whole instead of just as a headline.
konceptjones
The one between three and three.
Now... I 100% understand and agree with the charge for possession without an FOID card; I got no problem with that.
But... reckless discharge because of something that happened in his sleep??? I think a pretty strong case could be made against that.
LurkerSix
OG
The guy in this video calls himself a "guns rights activist" and works for/ heavily supports the NRA. He pretty much their token negro. Of course he's gunna find some shit to "debunk" to be pro guns.
konceptjones
The one between three and three.
The report that everyone parrots was intentionally misleading.
"The #1 killer of children is guns" but we can't question why the numbers needed to be padded with adult fatalities??? 18 and 19 year olds ain't "children", those are adults but those numbers were included. Same for suicide by gun; why, exactly, are those numbers there???
If the report was based on solid data, there wouldn't be anything to debunk. But that wasn't the case and Colion made it known. Don't get mad at him, be mad at the muhfuckas that lied to you.
LurkerSix
OG
You seem like the mad one. I just pointed out that someone with a clear bias is obviously gunna find someone at fault with whatever that report said.
Not only did i not support that report, i didnt even read it.
konceptjones
The one between three and three.
If the report was based on good data, then there's nothing to find. whether or not dude's an advocate is meaningless. After all, a feminist was the one that debunked the whole pay gap between men and women shit. If the studies were based on solid data, there wouldn't have been anything for her to find.
PhenomTheMac
OG
Tldwatch: a resounding yes.