Trump To Terminate Birth Right Citizenship

[Swiffness!]

"If the administration attempts to strip citizenship from millions of Americans—millions of people who have never known any other country—the trapdoor to dictatorship will have fallen open. The executive order cannot be enforced without a huge apparatus of internal control. Immigration and Customs Enforcement will, of necessity, become the skeleton of a nationwide citizenship police. Each of us must be prepared to prove our membership in the nation at any moment. And the new population of stateless Americans will face persecution, detention, and abuse; Korematsu-style internment camps would be a logical next step."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/birthright-citizenship-constitution/574381/

"none of this affects Black People™"

 

[DOS_patos]

"If the administration attempts to strip citizenship from millions of Americans—millions of people who have never known any other country—the trapdoor to dictatorship will have fallen open. The executive order cannot be enforced without a huge apparatus of internal control. Immigration and Customs Enforcement will, of necessity, become the skeleton of a nationwide citizenship police. Each of us must be prepared to prove our membership in the nation at any moment. And the new population of stateless Americans will face persecution, detention, and abuse; Korematsu-style internment camps would be a logical next step."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/birthright-citizenship-constitution/574381/

"none of this affects Black People™"

it indirectly affects black people.

allowing immigrants in and distract from our causes.....because they will unite, unlike we do.
all the things that black people fought for is going to other people. and not us.

 

[Blue_London]

And thats what i hate about american politics. Even if a policy had good intentions, whichever side supports it takes it so far to the extreme it loses its effectiveness. Its like we dont know how to stay balanced.

I get that but history has shown us we need to be cautious with this stuff. nigel farage during the EU referendum said just because you are born here doesn't mean your British when pressed he went on the line of you need generations to be classed.

The ukip mayor of London candidate was pushing housing for people who have generations In London. When pressed he kept saying we need to look into that.

 

[DMorgan]

if he can pull this off whats stopping him from trying to have a presidential term limits removed?

Been thought removing term limits on the president was coming. Trump just not the guy for it to happen with. Its coming though.

 

[DMorgan]

I get that but history has shown us we need to be cautious with this stuff. nigel farage during the EU referendum said just because you are born here doesn't mean your British when pressed he went on the line of you need generations to be classed.

The ukip mayor of London candidate was pushing housing for people who have generations In London. When pressed he kept saying we need to look into that.

Black people over the world still trusting white people even after the history we have with them.

History be damned when stupidity and feelings is involved.

 

[StringerBell]

 

[Babelipsss]

Blindly following the Republicans is just as dumb as blindly following the Democrats. Just take the time to know who you are giving your vote to. What might be important to your community might not be as important to another community. We all don't live in the same place or circumstance.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I don't have a problem with this at all.



That policy never made sense to begin with.



2 people living in the U.S.................ILLEGALLY..............can produce a child that automatically becomes a U.S. citizen???




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Stop thinking about the parents and think about the child. The child was born here. In most cases like that, all it knows is the U.S. Why wouldn't it be given citizenship. It's not like this is some weird thing. 33 other nations have the same rules. I guess you can be mad at the parents for being here illegally, but it's a good thing that our laws don't punish the children for the sins of the parents.

 

[semi-auto-mato]

Given that list posted on the other page

Most african countries dont allow for anchor babies either.

Is that bc they are a dying breed?


And thats what i hate about american politics. Even if a policy had good intentions, whichever side supports it takes it so far to the extreme it loses its effectiveness. Its like we dont know how to stay balanced.


Anchor babies cant vote for another 18 years. Do u think its okay for illegal non citizens who birth these children to vote and have a say but arent even here legally?

Sorry for quoting all sections. Anyway what do u mean? Illegal folks cant vote. U cant strip citizenship from illegal folk . Im not getting ur point

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Sorry for quoting all sections. Anyway what do u mean? Illegal folks cant vote. U cant strip citizenship from illegal folk . Im not getting ur point

This is a form of voter suppression. Strip minorities of their right to vote.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

I get that but history has shown us we need to be cautious with this stuff. nigel farage during the EU referendum said just because you are born here doesn't mean your British when pressed he went on the line of you need generations to be classed.

The ukip mayor of London candidate was pushing housing for people who have generations In London. When pressed he kept saying we need to look into that.

Could be dead wrong...obviously u know the politics of ur country way more than me

But if this has anything to do with EU i know a lot of european nations were worried about being forced to take refugees in mass amounts so this may have something to do with that.

 

[semi-auto-mato]

I said minorities but maybe i should have added citizens. I figured that was a given. Aint no one in here advocating for illegal voting.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

I said minorities but maybe i should have added citizens. I figured that was a given. Aint no one in here advocating for illegal voting.

Diff context between "minority" and "citizens" especially when 'minority' doesnt represent all citizens.

Illegal voting is another worry of republicans which they accuse dems of supporting given that most or all sanctuary cities are run by dems.

So while repubs push for stricter voting laws to limit illegal voting (and im sure racism plays a part for some) some dems are for being as lenient as possible like voting without ID thus making it easier for illegals to vote, thus getting dems more votes.

This all ties together in the big picture of course im open to opposing opinion bc i know im ignorant to a lot of political shit

 

[semi-auto-mato]

Diff context between "minority" and "citizens" especially when 'minority' doesnt represent all citizens.

Illegal voting is another worry of republicans which they accuse dems of supporting given that most or all sanctuary cities are run by dems.

So while repubs push for stricter voting laws to limit illegal voting (and im sure racism plays a part for some) some dems are for being as lenient as possible like voting without ID thus making it easier for illegals to vote, thus getting dems more votes.

This all ties together in the big picture of course im open to opposing opinion bc i know im ignorant to a lot of political shit

Ur reaching a lil here. First anchor baby isnt just for illegal folks. A person can be here legally and have a child. Thats an anchor baby as well. Second the 14th amendment has always been about minorities. Third id or lack thereof is a form of voter suppression. It is the job of the city and county to check and make sure a person is legally allowed to vote. If u are ur name is added to book. Ur id establishes ur identity. Its a common practice for everything else so why does a voter need 20 pieces of id?

Republicans are not worried about illegal votes. They are worried about the minority vote. There is no proof of a large scale illegal voting scheme. Still minorities who are citizens and have the legal right to vote are subject to things like id questions and gerrymandering. None of that is to stop illegal votes. Its all for the suppression of the LEGAL minority vote.

A better argument and im sure trump will use it is that removing birth right citizenship is not to stop votes but to stop illegals from a path to citizenship based on the child. I am for this but dont trust how trump would word the amendment.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Ur reaching a lil here. First anchor baby isnt just for illegal folks. A person can be here legally and have a child. Thats an anchor baby as well. Second the 14th amendment has always been about minorities.

@bolded there are valid points against birth tourism which i believe ur referring to. I just dont know how significant its impact is on citizens.

Third id or lack thereof is a form of voter suppression. It is the job of the city and county to check and make sure a person is legally allowed to vote. If u are ur name is added to book. Ur id establishes ur identity. Its a common practice for everything else so why does a voter need 20 pieces of id?

Republicans are not worried about illegal votes. They are worried about the minority vote. There is no proof of a large scale illegal voting scheme. Still minorities who are citizens and have the legal right to vote are subject to things like id questions and gerrymandering. None of that is to stop illegal votes. Its all for the suppression of the LEGAL minority vote.

See thats the thing. For every study that says it affects voter turnout negatively, there are other studies that say there is no significant impact. Though i dont know these studies well i'd assume the studies concluding little impact are probably backed by conservatives while the opposite are probably backed by progressives.

A better argument and im sure trump will use it is that removing birth right citizenship is not to stop votes but to stop illegals from a path to citizenship based on the child. I am for this but dont trust how trump would word the amendment.

Agreed and this goes back to a point i made to someone else. Even a decent idea can be twisted up with a hidden agenda that unfairly targets a group of ppl thus making it not worth passing.

 

[already home_17]

the mother of trumps three oldest kids wasn’t a citizen when she gave birth on american soil

so does that mean trumps kids will get deported?

 

[semi-auto-mato]

@bolded there are valid points against birth tourism which i believe ur referring to. I just dont know how significant its impact is on citizens.


See thats the thing. For every study that says it affects voter turnout negatively, there are other studies that say there is no significant impact. Though i dont know these studies well i'd assume the studies concluding little impact are probably backed by conservatives while the opposite are probably backed by progressives.


Agreed and this goes back to a point i made to someone else. Even a decent idea can be twisted up with a hidden agenda that unfairly targets a group of ppl thus making it not worth passing.

A woman gets a student visa and comes here. She gets pregnant and has a baby. She over stays her visa and is now here illegally. Her reason is this is all the child knows. Thats an anchor baby. A baby born to a mom in an effort to create a sponsor for citizenship. Birth tourism is similar but it is usually for the child to gain advantages like health care or school rights or in the case of china to get beyond that 2 child max.

When u register u sign a legal document stating u are a citizen and eligible to vote. This document is accepted by court system and subject to perjury laws. Every state uses it. Now states want people who have signed this legal document to provide things such as birth certificates. Old folks have a problem getting this. People who have relocated have issues getting this. Imagine having to fly from cali to nj to go to city hall to ur b.c. thats crazy. They could easily check s.s. #s.

Most illegal folks wont sign the doc cuz it leaves a paper trail and they be deported. There are ways to minimize illegal voting without hurting u.s. citizens especially minorities who may not have the means to get the necessary docs.

Election turnout is up and down. Usually higher during presidential elections. I fear what it would be used for like u do.

My aunt is 85. Born in the sticks of alabama. She cant get her b.c. if my cousins had to prove her citizenship to retain theirs thats gonna be hard as hell. They aint anchor babies. Most of us are not but how would this law read? Who all must show proof of citizenship? Clearly a b.c. wouldnt cut it. Elderly blacks have limited docs that would prove citizenship meaning us young folks could not prove our citizenship.

 

[semi-auto-mato]

the mother of trumps three oldest kids wasn’t a citizen when she gave birth on american soil

so does that mean trumps kids will get deported?

I say no. I think he would word it to say that marriage to a citizen would give the kids citizenship. He may also word it so that muslims and latinos are excluded much like now how diplomats are excluded. Remember the native americans didnt get citizenship until years after the 14th amendment cuz they were born on reservations that dont fall under u.s. jurisdiction. That statement or similar ones is what will make or break citizenship.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

A woman gets a student visa and comes here. She gets pregnant and has a baby. She over stays her visa and is now here illegally. Her reason is this is all the child knows. Thats an anchor baby. A baby born to a mom in an effort to create a sponsor for citizenship. Birth tourism is similar but it is usually for the child to gain advantages like health care or school rights or in the case of china to get beyond that 2 child max.

When u register u sign a legal document stating u are a citizen and eligible to vote. This document is accepted by court system and subject to perjury laws. Every state uses it. Now states want people who have signed this legal document to provide things such as birth certificates. Old folks have a problem getting this. People who have relocated have issues getting this. Imagine having to fly from cali to nj to go to city hall to ur b.c. thats crazy. They could easily check s.s. #s.

Most illegal folks wont sign the doc cuz it leaves a paper trail and they be deported. There are ways to minimize illegal voting without hurting u.s. citizens especially minorities who may not have the means to get the necessary docs.

Election turnout is up and down. Usually higher during presidential elections. I fear what it would be used for like u do.

My aunt is 85. Born in the sticks of alabama. She cant get her b.c. if my cousins had to prove her citizenship to retain theirs thats gonna be hard as hell. They aint anchor babies. Most of us are not but how would this law read? Who all must show proof of citizenship? Clearly a b.c. wouldnt cut it. Elderly blacks have limited docs that would prove citizenship meaning us young folks could not prove our citizenship.

Props on the knowledge

I see why its such a huge issue but i understand both sides.

Im also curious what are the ways to minimize illegal voting without hurting u.s. citizens and why it isnt implemented but maybe this isnt the thread for it.

 

[semi-auto-mato]

Props on the knowledge

I see why its such a huge issue but i understand both sides.

Im also curious what are the ways to minimize illegal voting without hurting u.s. citizens and why it isnt implemented but maybe this isnt the thread for it.

No problem my dude. Im not sure what we can do but i say we start by making folks understand that voting is a civic duty. It is required of all citizens just like paying taxes. Since it is a requirement its the government's job to do the leg work to ensure all eligible citizens vote.

If u dont pay ur taxes they will find u. Jury duty they find u. Those are civic duties. Voting? They dont want u to do that and it falls under the same umbrella