COMMUNITY Toxic Femininity vs Healthy Femininity

[The Mad Titan]

Du, in all seriousness, nobody is trying to get pussy wet here. Watch the 4 videos I posted and come back to the thread.


I genuinely don't care if this is something women like to discuss, and in fact it's really telling that women utterly refuse to discuss it. That we simply cannot hold women accountable for ANYTHING without a vicious, flippant, or wholly dismissive response from women and their sympathizers is a serious problem. Men's feet are held to the fire all day every day, and in this day and age of the MeToo movement even more so. However, there's nothing going on in the same manner for women. As I've repeatedly pointed out, when a man and woman both engage in the same negative (read: toxic) activities, men are punished and women are usually not or if they are punished, the resulting punishment is so light it's almost laughable.

When do we get to the point of honesty with regards to women?
When will women take the same level of criticism as men without lashing out and dismissing it?
When do we say that if we are to believe that men and women are equals, then we are to stop coddling and protecting women and allow "the real world" to be as harsh for them as it is for us?

Spoken like a true Detroit nigga

 

[LUCIEN]

Ask @Race Jones how many times we disagreed

My lack of engagement in arguments as more to do with personal availability than feelings on the topic.

Me and race have gone back n forth for pages on multiple subjects and she even made my list of people I gotta run the fade on when we meet....

But not one time did it become a personal contest of hurling insults at each other with no constructive attention to the topic at hand.

Y'all Niggaz got bad communication skills and a lot of deep seeded anger issues regarding women....

It's like y'all really think angry and accusatory arguments are effective communication tools for discussing these issues regardless of the fact that time and time and time again it's been proven that it's just counter productive.

I mean is like y'all want it to be one way, but it's clear it's the other way.

I can hop in any one of these convos and voice my opinion either way and not do it in a manner that comes off attacking women. And it has nothing to do with coddeling or simping.

Y'all just suck at that shit.

Counter productive to achieving what goal specifically?

 

[Duwop]

Constructive conversation where all parties feel encouraged to participate in the discussion.


But just like always it ends up being dudes going back n forth with dudes because the conversation always turns into as clustetfuck of ego's that leaves no female willing to engage any further.

It was like that on the IC and y'all trying y'all damndest to do it here too.

It used to be Chuck and Loca.... Y'all do the same shit.

But it's the weekend, I got errands to run. I ain't gonna be able to go back n forth with y'all.

Hopefully some females show up, but I doubt it....

 

[The Mad Titan]

Constructive conversation where all parties feel encouraged to participate in the discussion.


But just like always it ends up being dudes going back n forth with dudes because the conversation always turns into as clustetfuck of ego's that leaves no female willing to engage any further.

It was like that on the IC and y'all trying y'all damndest to do it here too.

It used to be Chuck and Loca.... Y'all do the same shit.

But it's the weekend, I got errands to run. I ain't gonna be able to go back n forth with y'all.

Hopefully some females show up, but I doubt it....

I get this, and I' m all for constructive conversations. We need that in our community. The problem is often times a lot (certainly not all) of our sistas are all too willing to bash us to hell and back, expect us to take it in stride. Yet when its time to air our grievences, they dont want to hear it, no matter how gently its presented. Thats bullshit and it speaks to a bigger issue at hand which is a whole other thread.

I have no problem with hearing my sistas out, i just expect it to go both ways.

 

[Kzzl]

Ask @Race Jones how many times we disagreed

My lack of engagement in arguments as more to do with personal availability than feelings on the topic.

Me and race have gone back n forth for pages on multiple subjects and she even made my list of people I gotta run the fade on when we meet....

But not one time did it become a personal contest of hurling insults at each other with no constructive attention to the topic at hand.

Y'all Niggaz got bad communication skills and a lot of deep seeded anger issues regarding women....

It's like y'all really think angry and accusatory arguments are effective communication tools for discussing these issues regardless of the fact that time and time and time again it's been proven that it's just counter productive.

I mean is like y'all want it to be one way, but it's clear it's the other way.

I can hop in any one of these convos and voice my opinion either way and not do it in a manner that comes off attacking women. And it has nothing to do with coddeling or simping.

Y'all just suck at that shit.

This has nothing to do with being angry at or attacking women. I've never harbored such feelings.
It's been 6 pages and these chicks have been mostly trolling. Whatever this high level of communication skill you have is, it's failed this thread so far. I assume these women are intelligent and can offer insight. So let's cut the shit and get to it. But if this doesn't work, that's cool too. I'll back out and let y'all have at it.

 

[Moist Feelings]

The only constructive parts to arise from these talks is that a man can understand how women perceive the world and how they act in it.

Because then men will stop getting played because you can see a bitch's angle before she even open her mouth.

Most females have no respect for the average man. She views him as a sucka, a real trick a banana stand. She can wink her eye, pout her lips show some tit and she can just pull money out the air.

So if she look at life like that, it already tells you what she is. And a man in a world full of hoes is either a trick or a pimp.

 

[DOS_patos]

WOW

 

[konceptjones]

Constructive conversation where all parties feel encouraged to participate in the discussion.


But just like always it ends up being dudes going back n forth with dudes because the conversation always turns into as clustetfuck of ego's that leaves no female willing to engage any further.

It was like that on the IC and y'all trying y'all damndest to do it here too.

It used to be Chuck and Loca.... Y'all do the same shit.

But it's the weekend, I got errands to run. I ain't gonna be able to go back n forth with y'all.

Hopefully some females show up, but I doubt it....

C'mon Du, Chuck and Loca would routinely start out the gate with insults and personal attacks. In Chuck's case there's several years worth of posts on the IC still available to read with y'all niggas standing there ke-ke'in behind her talmbout some "oooooooooh, get him Chuck!" every time she launched into attack mode completely unprovoked. I can't think of a single time I ever just came out insulting people, I come with paragraphs of information, get attacked, then respond in kind (remember, equality means if you can dish it out, you better be ready to take it when it comes back to you) then suddenly here comes the White Knight Brigade jumping to her defense. The last few times I came into a thread with Loca in it I tried my damnedest to keep it civil with her and she simply couldn't stop with the personal attacks or being completely dismissive of whatever any dude in the thread said and, in fact, in one of those last threads (the one about Azealia Banks bleaching her skin) she was completely dismissive of YOU as well as everyone else. Matter of fact, I'mma pull out this quote from you towards both Chuck and Loca:

Chuck said this:

"The thing is that black men do not see intersectional issues that black women goes through on a daily on sexism, racism and internal prejudice. Because black men do have an advantage -- they are not a woman; specifically, a black woman.

Black women are constantly disrespected, discarded,abused verbally and physically, sexually harassed, raped, killed, beat, being called a nigger, spat on, seen as masculine, loud, obtuse, negative and intellectually not "qualified" but intellectual property is always stolen.

When you all are ready to listen about misogynoir, not comment on it or say "I appreciate all black women" (because that is a sign of deflection and placing a bandaid on the problem); then we can a small chance to heal from the wounds of slavery.

How can you debate someone whos expressing their feeling of being oppressed?

Like....?"



and you responded with this:

"because it's natural to feel defensive towards something you strongly feel you're innocent of.....

look at the bold.....

those accumulation of charges are devastating. and if you personally know that you do not feel that way about black women....to be aggressively and passionately accused of them is more times than not going to elicit a very strong response that will very likely lead into an argument....

it's very hard to have a healthy conversation when at the very beginning of it you're immediately placed on the defensive at this level.....

"okay we can't have this conversation till YOU admit that YOU hate black women"

that's exactly how it comes off to us......and then to say if we respond "i appreciate all black woman" is a deflection.....

i mean....shit......what are we left with?"

How can you acknowledge the bolded, but then turn around and come to me like "It used to be Chuck and Loca.... Y'all do the same shit." knowing full well that both of them chicks, as a matter of routine, would hit us with accusatory statements off jump.

Now we're here on ABW... And when Race starts a thread talking about "Black Men are the leading cause of DEATH for Black women", how do you not see that we, collectively, were put on the defense by something like this? (fun fact: you did, and even said as much) Race even accused you of dancing around the issue instead of addressing it however when I addressed it head-on completely dismantling it, the thread dies after three more posts, one of which I made. No taking her to task on her statement, now proven false, no one to try to make sense of such a statement being bandied about in the first place; just crickets.

Can't have it both ways Du.

 

[Kzzl]

To answer the thread, the main problem I have with toxic femininity is that it emasculates the black man. They don't seem to care about men being fair, men having more respect, fighting against injustice against women, but just want to push that men are opponents.

Toxic Femininity is modern day "buck breaking" as they used in slave days. Same idea, just refined. As a result our daughters could end up with a pool of cheerleaders and coons. The rest will be too busy chasing man booty that been cross-dressing since elementary school. Leaving the door wide open for interracial elements to fill the role we black men could lose, thus endangering our survival.

Healthy femininity is the opposite of all that. Healthy femininity doesn't view men as opponents, but wants men to be the greatest man they can be.

 

[shutupGabi]

They see it they just have nothing to add. Or is avoiding the thread.

Or we just letting yall cook. We don't wana invade yall safe space

:)

 

[SeaSnake]

C'mon Du, Chuck and Loca would routinely start out the gate with insults and personal attacks. In Chuck's case there's several years worth of posts on the IC still available to read with y'all niggas standing there ke-ke'in behind her talmbout some "oooooooooh, get him Chuck!" every time she launched into attack mode completely unprovoked. I can't think of a single time I ever just came out insulting people, I come with paragraphs of information, get attacked, then respond in kind (remember, equality means if you can dish it out, you better be ready to take it when it comes back to you) then suddenly here comes the White Knight Brigade jumping to her defense. The last few times I came into a thread with Loca in it I tried my damnedest to keep it civil with her and she simply couldn't stop with the personal attacks or being completely dismissive of whatever any dude in the thread said and, in fact, in one of those last threads (the one about Azealia Banks bleaching her skin) she was completely dismissive of YOU as well as everyone else. Matter of fact, I'mma pull out this quote from you towards both Chuck and Loca:

Chuck said this:

"The thing is that black men do not see intersectional issues that black women goes through on a daily on sexism, racism and internal prejudice. Because black men do have an advantage -- they are not a woman; specifically, a black woman.

Black women are constantly disrespected, discarded,abused verbally and physically, sexually harassed, raped, killed, beat, being called a nigger, spat on, seen as masculine, loud, obtuse, negative and intellectually not "qualified" but intellectual property is always stolen.

When you all are ready to listen about misogynoir, not comment on it or say "I appreciate all black women" (because that is a sign of deflection and placing a bandaid on the problem); then we can a small chance to heal from the wounds of slavery.

How can you debate someone whos expressing their feeling of being oppressed?

Like....?"



and you responded with this:

"because it's natural to feel defensive towards something you strongly feel you're innocent of.....

look at the bold.....

those accumulation of charges are devastating. and if you personally know that you do not feel that way about black women....to be aggressively and passionately accused of them is more times than not going to elicit a very strong response that will very likely lead into an argument....

it's very hard to have a healthy conversation when at the very beginning of it you're immediately placed on the defensive at this level.....

"okay we can't have this conversation till YOU admit that YOU hate black women"

that's exactly how it comes off to us......and then to say if we respond "i appreciate all black woman" is a deflection.....

i mean....shit......what are we left with?"

How can you acknowledge the bolded, but then turn around and come to me like "It used to be Chuck and Loca.... Y'all do the same shit." knowing full well that both of them chicks, as a matter of routine, would hit us with accusatory statements off jump.

Now we're here on ABW... And when Race starts a thread talking about "Black Men are the leading cause of DEATH for Black women", how do you not see that we, collectively, were put on the defense by something like this? (fun fact: you did, and even said as much) Race even accused you of dancing around the issue instead of addressing it however when I addressed it head-on completely dismantling it, the thread dies after three more posts, one of which I made. No taking her to task on her statement, now proven false, no one to try to make sense of such a statement being bandied about in the first place; just crickets.

Can't have it both ways Du.

All this whining

 

[NeighborhoodNomad]

Or we just letting yall cook. We don't wana invade yall safe space

:)

The question is posed to both the ladies and the fellas. In particular the ladies being that it's been ladies who have seemingly introduced the phrase into our modern day vocabulary and have made the term mainstream.

This isn't about bashing or attacking any gender. I'm also asking what healthy masculinity and femininity looks like.

I'm just looking for a little clarity on what it means and what it looks like.

 

[Duwop]

C'mon Du, Chuck and Loca would routinely start out the gate with insults and personal attacks. In Chuck's case there's several years worth of posts on the IC still available to read with y'all niggas standing there ke-ke'in behind her talmbout some "oooooooooh, get him Chuck!" every time she launched into attack mode completely unprovoked. I can't think of a single time I ever just came out insulting people, I come with paragraphs of information, get attacked, then respond in kind (remember, equality means if you can dish it out, you better be ready to take it when it comes back to you) then suddenly here comes the White Knight Brigade jumping to her defense. The last few times I came into a thread with Loca in it I tried my damnedest to keep it civil with her and she simply couldn't stop with the personal attacks or being completely dismissive of whatever any dude in the thread said and, in fact, in one of those last threads (the one about Azealia Banks bleaching her skin) she was completely dismissive of YOU as well as everyone else. Matter of fact, I'mma pull out this quote from you towards both Chuck and Loca:

Chuck said this:

"The thing is that black men do not see intersectional issues that black women goes through on a daily on sexism, racism and internal prejudice. Because black men do have an advantage -- they are not a woman; specifically, a black woman.

Black women are constantly disrespected, discarded,abused verbally and physically, sexually harassed, raped, killed, beat, being called a nigger, spat on, seen as masculine, loud, obtuse, negative and intellectually not "qualified" but intellectual property is always stolen.

When you all are ready to listen about misogynoir, not comment on it or say "I appreciate all black women" (because that is a sign of deflection and placing a bandaid on the problem); then we can a small chance to heal from the wounds of slavery.

How can you debate someone whos expressing their feeling of being oppressed?

Like....?"



and you responded with this:

"because it's natural to feel defensive towards something you strongly feel you're innocent of.....

look at the bold.....

those accumulation of charges are devastating. and if you personally know that you do not feel that way about black women....to be aggressively and passionately accused of them is more times than not going to elicit a very strong response that will very likely lead into an argument....

it's very hard to have a healthy conversation when at the very beginning of it you're immediately placed on the defensive at this level.....

"okay we can't have this conversation till YOU admit that YOU hate black women"

that's exactly how it comes off to us......and then to say if we respond "i appreciate all black woman" is a deflection.....

i mean....shit......what are we left with?"

How can you acknowledge the bolded, but then turn around and come to me like "It used to be Chuck and Loca.... Y'all do the same shit." knowing full well that both of them chicks, as a matter of routine, would hit us with accusatory statements off jump.

Now we're here on ABW... And when Race starts a thread talking about "Black Men are the leading cause of DEATH for Black women", how do you not see that we, collectively, were put on the defense by something like this? (fun fact: you did, and even said as much) Race even accused you of dancing around the issue instead of addressing it however when I addressed it head-on completely dismantling it, the thread dies after three more posts, one of which I made. No taking her to task on her statement, now proven false, no one to try to make sense of such a statement being bandied about in the first place; just crickets.

Can't have it both ways Du.

I'm sorry bruh, if that was my response to them you can't tell me I'm not a consistent and smooth motherfucker.

You see that shit??

 

[The Mad Titan]

All this whining

Lol, so since you can't refute what he said with logic, he's whining huh?

 

[King Freeman]

C'mon Du, Chuck and Loca would routinely start out the gate with insults and personal attacks. In Chuck's case there's several years worth of posts on the IC still available to read with y'all niggas standing there ke-ke'in behind her talmbout some "oooooooooh, get him Chuck!" every time she launched into attack mode completely unprovoked. I can't think of a single time I ever just came out insulting people, I come with paragraphs of information, get attacked, then respond in kind (remember, equality means if you can dish it out, you better be ready to take it when it comes back to you) then suddenly here comes the White Knight Brigade jumping to her defense. The last few times I came into a thread with Loca in it I tried my damnedest to keep it civil with her and she simply couldn't stop with the personal attacks or being completely dismissive of whatever any dude in the thread said and, in fact, in one of those last threads (the one about Azealia Banks bleaching her skin) she was completely dismissive of YOU as well as everyone else. Matter of fact, I'mma pull out this quote from you towards both Chuck and Loca:

Chuck said this:

"The thing is that black men do not see intersectional issues that black women goes through on a daily on sexism, racism and internal prejudice. Because black men do have an advantage -- they are not a woman; specifically, a black woman.

Black women are constantly disrespected, discarded,abused verbally and physically, sexually harassed, raped, killed, beat, being called a nigger, spat on, seen as masculine, loud, obtuse, negative and intellectually not "qualified" but intellectual property is always stolen.

When you all are ready to listen about misogynoir, not comment on it or say "I appreciate all black women" (because that is a sign of deflection and placing a bandaid on the problem); then we can a small chance to heal from the wounds of slavery.

How can you debate someone whos expressing their feeling of being oppressed?

Like....?"



and you responded with this:

"because it's natural to feel defensive towards something you strongly feel you're innocent of.....

look at the bold.....

those accumulation of charges are devastating. and if you personally know that you do not feel that way about black women....to be aggressively and passionately accused of them is more times than not going to elicit a very strong response that will very likely lead into an argument....

it's very hard to have a healthy conversation when at the very beginning of it you're immediately placed on the defensive at this level.....

"okay we can't have this conversation till YOU admit that YOU hate black women"

that's exactly how it comes off to us......and then to say if we respond "i appreciate all black woman" is a deflection.....

i mean....shit......what are we left with?"

How can you acknowledge the bolded, but then turn around and come to me like "It used to be Chuck and Loca.... Y'all do the same shit." knowing full well that both of them chicks, as a matter of routine, would hit us with accusatory statements off jump.

Now we're here on ABW... And when Race starts a thread talking about "Black Men are the leading cause of DEATH for Black women", how do you not see that we, collectively, were put on the defense by something like this? (fun fact: you did, and even said as much) Race even accused you of dancing around the issue instead of addressing it however when I addressed it head-on completely dismantling it, the thread dies after three more posts, one of which I made. No taking her to task on her statement, now proven false, no one to try to make sense of such a statement being bandied about in the first place; just crickets.

Can't have it both ways Du.

 

[Loquacious]

They see it they just have nothing to add. Or is avoiding the thread.

Nah, I’m just reading what the experts are saying and learning about women from men.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad]

Nah, I’m just reading what the experts are saying and learning about women from men.

The question was asked to both women and men. Especially the ladies.

Care to participate?

 

[5th Letter]

Nah, I’m just reading what the experts are saying and learning about women from men.

I learn about men from women too so there’s that.

 

[Loquacious]

I learn about men from women too so there’s that.

That’s why I’m reading and letting y’all cook.

The question was asked to both women and men. Especially the ladies.

Care to participate?

I’ve participated. I don’t think toxic femininity is a thing and if it is, I have yet to find the true definition. So I can’t give my input but the men seem to know a lot about it, so I’m sitting back and soaking it all in.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad]

That’s why I’m reading and letting y’all cook.


I’ve participated. I don’t think toxic femininity is a thing and if it is, I have yet to find the true definition. So I can’t give my input but the men seem to know a lot about it, so I’m sitting back and soaking it all in.

Is toxic masculinity a thing in your opinion?