SOME ABW Men apparently diss black women: thread about passport bros again

[The Lonious Monk]

Yeah...it's crazy ain't it.

So, in your opinion, saying that black women tear down black men more than the other way around is bashing them? How? I'm not saying Black women ain't shit or they're terrible people, or any of that. I'm just saying that from what I've seen, they feel much more comfortable making way worse statements about us that we do about them. You go on Youtube or social media and you going to see crazies on both side saying bullshit, but it's only been acceptable for one side to get on news outlets, daytime talk shows, and primetime TV documentaries trashing their counterparts. If I'm wrong, show me all the examples of black men having round table discussions on network tv about how hard it is to be a black man because of how much black women suck.

 

[BlackRain]

So, in your opinion, saying that black women tear down black men more than the other way around is bashing them? How? I'm not saying Black women ain't shit or they're terrible people, or any of that. I'm just saying that from what I've seen, they feel much more comfortable making way worse statements about us that we do about them. You go on Youtube or social media and you going to see crazies on both side saying bullshit, but it's only been acceptable for one side to get on news outlets, daytime talk shows, and primetime TV documentaries trashing their counterparts. If I'm wrong, show me all the examples of black men having round table discussions on network tv about how hard it is to be a black man because of how much black women suck.

Thats alot of assumptions being made without actually getting an answer to my question. You said it's crazy how badly people in the Black community bash each other. Then made a post bashing a portion of the Black community. It was no more or less a commentary on those dual posts and the contradictory nature of what you're trying to communicate vs what you're actually saying. It's wrong either way but it's funny to see the attempt.

 

[SeaSnake]

So, in your opinion, saying that black women tear down black men more than the other way around is bashing them? How? I'm not saying Black women ain't shit or they're terrible people, or any of that. I'm just saying that from what I've seen, they feel much more comfortable making way worse statements about us that we do about them. You go on Youtube or social media and you going to see crazies on both side saying bullshit, but it's only been acceptable for one side to get on news outlets, daytime talk shows, and primetime TV documentaries trashing their counterparts. If I'm wrong, show me all the examples of black men having round table discussions on network tv about how hard it is to be a black man because of how much black women suck.

Yea but we do have a whole music industry dominated by us that say bitches ain’t shit for 30 years. This pushback we get from women didn’t just happen over night out of the blue.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Thats alot of assumptions being made without actually getting an answer to my question. You said it's crazy how badly people in the Black community bash each other. Then made a post bashing a portion of the Black community. It was no more or less a commentary on those dual posts and the contradictory nature of what you're trying to communicate vs what you're actually saying. It's wrong either way but it's funny to see the attempt.

First of all, you didn't ask a question, you made a silly attempt at a Gotcha.

Second, when I was talking about people bashing each other, I was talking about the vitriolic comments made to tear each other down (e.g., black men are bullet bags or black women are masculine). Do you really think me saying I think that black women go at black men harder is the same type thing?

The problem with some of ya'll, is that you don't actually stand for anything or have any real concept of what you believe. You just get on here and spout bullshit and then try to catch others slipping. If you believe I'm wrong when I say women come at us harder, you could have just as easily have made that point, but you didn't, likely because you can't.

 

[konceptjones]

Yea but we do have a whole music industry dominated by us that say bitches ain’t shit for 30 years. This pushback we get from women didn’t just happen over night out of the blue.

That same industry also said "Brown skin woman you're a queen, not a hoe" and stuff like that.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Yea but we do have a whole music industry dominated by us that say bitches ain’t shit for 30 years. This pushback we get from women didn’t just happen over night out of the blue.

You're 100% correct, and some women have been pushing against those rappers for 30 years. They were right to do so, even though the rappers have always maintained that their songs weren't meant to be referendums about women in general but were talking about a specific kind of woman.

So if women can criticize men for behaving badly and I can admit that there are men who behave badly and need to be checked, how is it wrong for me to point out some shit that a lot of women do that's not cool. Like, I honestly don't get you and @BlackRain. It's cool that ya'll want to hold men accountable and are against trashing women, but why do ya'll always seem to take every negative thing that women say about me at face value and then turn around and act like women are beyond reproach. Women been making "Niggas ain't shit" songs for 30 years too. Who cares? I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about basic interactions between black men and women and how and why that's broken.

 

[Mister B. M. Ed.]

The Matrix is being defended very vigorously in here. I just don't understanding the whole concept of bashing anyone that seeks refuge elsewhere and with others after being thoroughly rejected by their own.

How is this supposed to end? Are black men supposed to end up alone if they can't pull American black women? Are they all supposed to be shamed into earning 100K, and thus meeting these mostly illogical standards of said women?

Seriously: What is the supposed endgame here?

 

[BlackRain]

First of all, you didn't ask a question, you made a silly attempt at a Gotcha.

Second, when I was talking about people bashing each other, I was talking about the vitriolic comments made to tear each other down (e.g., black men are bullet bags or black women are masculine). Do you really think me saying I think that black women go at black men harder is the same type thing?

The problem with some of ya'll, is that you don't actually stand for anything or have any real concept of what you believe. You just get on here and spout bullshit and then try to catch others slipping. If you believe I'm wrong when I say women come at us harder, you could have just as easily have made that point, but you didn't, likely because you can't.

Its not a matter of can I articulate it. It's a matter of whether or not it's worth the effort or will you and others continue to operate from a place of feigned ignorance to anything outside your direct pov. You listed all those mediums of media and entertainment as a source of comments on Black men as if Black women don't get that same negative treatment through those same areas. It's funny somehow those missed your radar but you're aware of the other side completely.

For one i think the oppression Olympics shit youre trying to do is stupid as fuck and does more harm than good. Both Black men and Black women have it fucked up in a multitude of ways that are both different and similar. But this shit you trying to do is just wrong. It contributes to the very discourse you say you don’t like. You also did a piss poor attempt at trying to minmize "Yeah we say some wild shit to/about women". As if that's all there is to it. Like there isn't decades upon decades of violence against Black women that has far too many times been perpetuated by people who unfortunately look like them may inform modern day opinions with regards to how some of them act. And before you even try no that's not an excuse but i won't sit here and pretend like shit has been some fairytale existence for Black women like some want to. I mean shit some of the very people we hold in high regard got some fucked up dealings with this exact topic.

Those divestor weirdo women are stupid as fuck same as the "save yourself Black man" aka 2023 versión of "Men Go Your Own Way" idiots. And if you allow that noise to get you off track or caught up in stupid back and forth about who has it worse then you're doing white peoples job for them. You're exactly what you claim to dislike. You can just as easily tune that noise out but niggas want to keep embracing and giving their time and attention to the worst of the worst. Like it's some weird form of confirmation bias to justify continuing to treat each other as less than.

 

[BlackRain]

That same industry also said "Brown skin woman you're a queen, not a hoe" and stuff like that.

This is why the examples @The Lonious Monk gave are bad. Because the same shit can be said in rebuttal to "they're talking bad about us on tv shows."

 

[BlackRain]

You're 100% correct, and some women have been pushing against those rappers for 30 years. They were right to do so, even though the rappers have always maintained that their songs weren't meant to be referendums about women in general but were talking about a specific kind of woman.

So if women can criticize men for behaving badly and I can admit that there are men who behave badly and need to be checked, how is it wrong for me to point out some shit that a lot of women do that's not cool. Like, I honestly don't get you and @BlackRain. It's cool that ya'll want to hold men accountable and are against trashing women, but why do ya'll always seem to take every negative thing that women say about me at face value and then turn around and act like women are beyond reproach. Women been making "Niggas ain't shit" songs for 30 years too. Who cares? I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about basic interactions between black men and women and how and why that's broken.

The bold is just a flat out lie and you literally have no way of proving such a statement. I criticize stupid people in general both men and women. A part of the problem is people in general only tend to hear it when they're on the end of the criticism. And we are on a board filled with majority men. So guess what the vast majority of the commentary will be directed towards?

Maybe if folks stopped taking any negative comments as a personal affront and remove themselves and look at it without thinking they are being personally attacked then you wouldn't feel like you're being went at. And that's something only you can control. If someone makes a comment not specific to you and you keep responding as such then these discussions would actually go somewhere. But so long as people see "men" and think it's automatically about them even when it's something they admittedly don't identify with then you gonna keep finding yourself offended at shit you can easily ignore. You said it yourself in your response just now "rappers were talking about a specific type of woman." So if you know whatever comment being made about men ain't about you then why you upset?

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Its not a matter of can I articulate it. It's a matter of whether or not it's worth the effort or will you and others continue to operate from a place of feigned ignorance to anything outside your direct pov. You listed all those mediums of media and entertainment as a source of comments on Black men as if Black women don't get that same negative treatment through those same areas. It's funny somehow those missed your radar but you're aware of the other side completely.

You started it off in bad faith. I've already stated that black women catch hell on those media too. Me saying that black women go at us harder than we go at them, in no way means that I believe that black men aren't attacking black women out there. There's no point in even reading the rest of what you wrote since you're being disingenuous out of the gate.

This is why the examples @The Lonious Monk gave are bad. Because the same shit can be said in rebuttal to "they're talking bad about us on tv shows."

Then give examples. ABC ran a whole special that was basically just black women talking about how bad or insufficient black men are. It was so popular they did a Part 2. That was like 10 years ago and shit has only gotten worse since then. If you got an example of similar pieces with black men downing black women as if its news, post them. You got shows like the Talk and the Chew and others where black women, often in conversation with nonblack women, have no problem criticizing and saying wild shit about black men. If you know of similar shows with black men doing the same, post them. You have black women professionals getting on any outlet that will let them trying to tell everyone that black women have progressed so far beyond black men at this point that it's become a burden on them. If you have examples of black men doing the same thing in reverse, post them.

You're trying to dismiss the shit that I'm saying, but you're not actually providing anything of substance. You're just handwaving and trying to act as if what I'm saying is ridiculous.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

The bold is just a flat out lie and you literally have no way of proving such a statement. I criticize stupid people in general both men and women. A part of the problem is people in general only tend to hear it when they're on the end of the criticism. And we are on a board filled with majority men. So guess what the vast majority of the commentary will be directed towards?

Maybe if folks stopped taking any negative comments as a personal affront and remove themselves and look at it without thinking they are being personally attacked then you wouldn't feel like you're being went at. And that's something only you can control. If someone makes a comment not specific to you and you keep responding as such then these discussions would actually go somewhere. But so long as people see "men" and think it's automatically about them even when it's something they admittedly don't identify with then you gonna keep finding yourself offended at shit you can easily ignore. You said it yourself in your response just now "rappers were talking about a specific type of woman." So if you know whatever comment being made about men ain't about you then why you upset?

It's not a lie, it's my opinion your posting habits. You don't have to like it, but that's what I believe.

And ya'll are always quick to try an deflect by acting like people are just being sensitive. That's not the case with me. I don't take any of this shit personally because exactly 0% of it applies to me. I'm not broke. I don't have a bunch of kids that I don't take care of. I'm not abusive. I'm not a cheater. I'm not violent. I'm not any of the criticisms that get thrown around so wildly about men, so no I don't see the word "men" and automatically think any of this shit is meant for me. I just know that those criticisms don't apply nearly as widely as a lot of women and people like you and @HellCzar like to claim., and that's why I feel it's necessary to call that stuff out.

Myself and others have brought statistics to show that all those condemnations are overblown when applied to men particularly black men, so how is it wrong for us to push back on that rhetoric when we have facts proving that it's not true. I'm never offended by people saying stupid shit, and I don't have to be offended to shoot it down.

 

[SeaSnake]

That same industry also said "Brown skin woman you're a queen, not a hoe" and stuff like that.

Ok but if we going by what my generation heard in the radio and social interactions at school we gotta be real.

 

[SeaSnake]

The Matrix is being defended very vigorously in here. I just don't understanding the whole concept of bashing anyone that seeks refuge elsewhere and with others after being thoroughly rejected by their own.

How is this supposed to end? Are black men supposed to end up alone if they can't pull American black women? Are they all supposed to be shamed into earning 100K, and thus meeting these mostly illogical standards of said women?

Seriously: What is the supposed endgame here?

Lol to do what you did and find a wife that likes you and won’t call you names. These guys come off like that’s impossible in this country.

 

[SeaSnake]

It's not a lie, it's my opinion your posting habits. You don't have to like it, but that's what I believe.

And ya'll are always quick to try an deflect by acting like people are just being sensitive. That's not the case with me. I don't take any of this shit personally because exactly 0% of it applies to me. I'm not broke. I don't have a bunch of kids that I don't take care of. I'm not abusive. I'm not a cheater. I'm not violent. I'm not any of the criticisms that get thrown around so wildly about men, so no I don't see the word "men" and automatically think any of this shit is meant for me. I just know that those criticisms don't apply nearly as widely as a lot of women and people like you and @HellCzar like to claim., and that's why I feel it's necessary to call that stuff out.

Myself and others have brought statistics to show that all those condemnations are overblown when applied to men particularly black men, so how is it wrong for us to push back on that rhetoric when we have facts proving that it's not true. I'm never offended by people saying stupid shit, and I don't have to be offended to shoot it down.

Bruh we just not gonna agree at all. You think I hate single straight black men and I don’t but you run with it. Then you go and say that same bullshit like women are just meaner to men. I view it as an angry response based in legit reason. I get because you don’t fit the stereotype you have to get defensive like Dos_patos and rich folks.

 

[BlackRain]

It's not a lie, it's my opinion your posting habits. You don't have to like it, but that's what I believe.

And ya'll are always quick to try an deflect by acting like people are just being sensitive. That's not the case with me. I don't take any of this shit personally because exactly 0% of it applies to me. I'm not broke. I don't have a bunch of kids that I don't take care of. I'm not abusive. I'm not a cheater. I'm not violent. I'm not any of the criticisms that get thrown around so wildly about men, so no I don't see the word "men" and automatically think any of this shit is meant for me. I just know that those criticisms don't apply nearly as widely as a lot of women and people like you and @HellCzar like to claim., and that's why I feel it's necessary to call that stuff out.

Myself and others have brought statistics to show that all those condemnations are overblown when applied to men particularly black men, so how is it wrong for us to push back on that rhetoric when we have facts proving that it's not true. I'm never offended by people saying stupid shit, and I don't have to be offended to shoot it down.

This is how I know you're being intentionally obtuse and just seeing what you want to see. What you believe isn't actually reality and I'm telling you flat out "what you're saying about my pov is wrong" and you're still speaking as if I fall into the category you're talking about. You're doing exactly what you say you don't like which is make an accusatory statement in spite of being told otherwise. So unless you're actually going to have a true discussion without wanting to personalize it to either myself or yourself then I'm gonna do what I said I do with people who intentionally miss or ignore a point and leave you to your own devices.

 

[SeaSnake]

You're 100% correct, and some women have been pushing against those rappers for 30 years. They were right to do so, even though the rappers have always maintained that their songs weren't meant to be referendums about women in general but were talking about a specific kind of woman.

So if women can criticize men for behaving badly and I can admit that there are men who behave badly and need to be checked, how is it wrong for me to point out some shit that a lot of women do that's not cool. Like, I honestly don't get you and @BlackRain. It's cool that ya'll want to hold men accountable and are against trashing women, but why do ya'll always seem to take every negative thing that women say about me at face value and then turn around and act like women are beyond reproach. Women been making "Niggas ain't shit" songs for 30 years too. Who cares? I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about basic interactions between black men and women and how and why that's broken.

Well bruh you have a whole slew of other posters who have no problem going hard at women for their nonsense at all. I never daid women don’t do nonsense I just don’t need to act like deadeye about the shit. You want me to show some sort of middle ground so you don’t feel I’m biased?

 

[BlackRain]

Well bruh you have a whole slew of other posters who have no problem going hard at women for their nonsense at all. I never daid women don’t do nonsense I just don’t need to act like deadeye about the shit. You want me to show some sort of middle ground so you don’t feel I’m biased?

That's the definition of not showing bias. So yes that's what they're asking. Some of ya'll really don't help yourselves lol.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Bruh we just not gonna agree at all. You think I hate single straight black men and I don’t but you run with it. Then you go and say that same bullshit like women are just meaner to men. I view it as an angry response based in legit reason. I get because you don’t fit the stereotype you have to get defensive like Dos_patos and rich folks.

Bruh, we don't have to agree. Agreement ain't the point, but you and the other dude play the same bullshit games. You act like I'm over here banging on my keys angrily. I honestly don't care that much about this. You love to call me out on arguing just to argue, so you have to know that I'm not emotionally invested in any of this shit. I'm happily married, so if all the single people out there crash and burn, I'm unaffected. I do have two daughters I'm raising though. And I would like them to be able to date, find love, and get married one day without having to traverse the mine field that the dating game seems to be today. Just stop with the bullshit. If you disagree with me, say that an leave it alone. You and the other dude can't actually make cogent arguments for why I'm wrong, and if you're not going to do that, then don't bother saying anything at all.

This is how I know you're being intentionally obtuse and just seeing what you want to see. What you believe isn't actually reality and I'm telling you flat out "what you're saying about my pov is wrong" and you're still speaking as if I fall into the category you're talking about. You're doing exactly what you say you don't like which is make an accusatory statement in spite of being told otherwise. So unless you're actually going to have a true discussion without wanting to personalize it to either myself or yourself then I'm gonna do what I said I do with people who intentionally miss or ignore a point and leave you to your own devices.

I don't care about what you say about your POV, just like if you have an opinion about my POV, you're not just going to drop that opinion because I say so. lol I'm going by what I've observed with my own eyes based on reading your stances on things. I'm not even saying I'm 100% right about my opinion on you because I haven't read every single post you've made or run some kinda analysis to determine the fairness of the points you make. All I can say is that based on what I actually have read, that's the impression I have, and you saying it's wrong isn't going to change that impression. It is what it is.

And I'm not personalizing anything. That's you. You're the one that keeps on trying to dismiss the points being made by claiming that people are just being offended or sensitive. Again, you've had every opportunity to look at the substance of what I said and post counterexamples or poke holes in the logic, but you haven't done that, you've just misrepresented statements and deflected.

Well bruh you have a whole slew of other posters who have no problem going hard at women for their nonsense at all. I never daid women don’t do nonsense I just don’t need to act like deadeye about the shit. You want me to show some sort of middle ground so you don’t feel I’m biased?

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say here. All I want you to do is be fair minded.

You and I have been over this before. I don't mind you defending women from the sexists or misogynisic dudes on this site. My problem is that often when you do, you spout the exact same talking points that a lot of man hating women use. That doesn't make sense to me. Women aren't men, so there are things they are going to get wrong when they criticize men, just because they don't really know or understand what its like to be a man or how men think. When you, a man, say some of those same things, it just strikes me as weird, because I can't understand how a dude would think that way.

Think about it. Imagine some chicks made a topic bashing black fathers in response to single mothers getting dragged on here. If I came in here and started cosigning all that shit or spouting the same shit, all the black fathers on this site would look at me weird. Not because anybody believes black fathers are above criticism but because some of those criticisms are factually incorrect, and every involved black father knows that.

 

[konceptjones]

Ok but if we going by what my generation heard in the radio and social interactions at school we gotta be real.

That song came out AFTER The Chronic on KRS ONE's rather popular "Return of the Boom Bap" album in 1993. There was plenty of positive music in those days. It's all about what you chose to listen to.