This is correct and what I've been saying in my replies. If you choose to take in all the "Black men/women ain't shit" rhetoric then that's a personal choice.
SOME ABW Men apparently diss black women: thread about passport bros again
- Thread starter Royal
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This is correct and what I've been saying in my replies. If you choose to take in all the "Black men/women ain't shit" rhetoric then that's a personal choice.
SeaSnake
OG
You don’t want to talk about 30 years ago but want to talk about the how and why we got here. You study history bro the music bashing women in the 90s was waaaaay more popular and more heard than the opposite. It’s been barely any female rappers so no it’s not the exact same
I'm actually not above changing my opinion on something based on new information. And I did give you examples. The very same tv shows, music, podcast etc that you claim only denigrates Black men does a pretty good job of doing the same for Black women. Or do you simply choose to ignore the endless podcasts/social media commentary on "If a woman does *insert random act* she's not worthy of respect". Or the myriad of "These women gonna be bitter and lonely forever" comments that get made as well.
How about the fact that we even hold people in high regard within our own culture that have admitted past abuses against women and when they bring those issues to the forefront they get told to be quiet and it's not the right time. Just go look at the discourse on Jim Brown just last week and how some thought his past should never be mentioned unless it's all praise worthy. I mean shit Tina Turner just passed away and the abuse she suffered literally became a joke. People turned Ike Turner beating her into memes, punchlines and material to be used. You think seeing shit like that leaves a good impression on Black women to see generation after generation? To see abusers held in high regard and told their grievances and stories aren't worthy of being told because it might show somebody in a bad light and "We can't be looking bad in front of white folk" like some say?
You claim to want fairminded and balanced commentary yet the post I responded to that you made wasn't anything of the such. It was a "Yeah men say bad things but they say much worse." You claim to have no issue with stuff being called out but by your own admission in previous posts you do let negative commentary about women slide because you don't always see a need to call it out. You downplay the negative comments about women in music with "they said they're talking about a specific type of woman" but you can't extend that same logic to comments you see made about men and their actions? So why should you expect them or anyone else to give you any different treatment? That's not fair or balanced at all by your own admittance. You can't expect to get what you don't give in return. You just admitted in this very response you don't even actually know if what you're saying is correct in regards to me but you're gonna run with it because it's what you read even if you're told otherwise. So could it be said that you don't actually want to be fair and balanced? You just want agreement instead?
You're too busy trying to be right instead of actually having a discussion. If you really did read my posts then you'd see my response to you was never about right or wrong and was about you participating in the same discourse you say is so harmful.
Came across this sighs.....
GNS
Navahoes creep me in they teepees
These niggaz and bitches be on the internet too much. The vows already pretty much say the same without all those words and the kneeling. Shit just seemed extra but more power to them
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
It's not that I don't want to talk about 30 years ago. I just don't think dudes saying "bitches and hoes" on songs are the same as so-called black women scholars getting on news programs using bad data to paint black men a certain way. I concede that the misogyny in rap is terrible, but I just don't think that ever held as much weight as people who were engaging what were deemed to be serious discussions about this topic. I could be wrong on that because rap music has proven to be more influential than I thought back then.
This is how I know you're not really paying attention to what I'm saying. I full admit that when you're talking about things like music and rando blogs and podcasts that shit goes both ways. I don't know if its equal. I personally, think women go a little hard, but it's not a big difference. You keep on accusing me of ignoring shit, and I keep on telling you that I am fully aware and agree that there are a lot of shots fired in both directions when it comes to those media. The examples I gave with women were things that were more institutionally backed and therefore given more credibility. That's the arena in which you see a lot of black women given a voice to talk down on black men, but not nearly as much the other way around.
SeaSnake
OG
Bruh again I’m fair minded you just don’t view it that way. If you tired of what I’m writing then get over it because we had this conversation at least three times. If I can’t reach you and you can’t reach me let it go. Also just because I don’t agree and bash women does mean I think like women and bash men. But you see it that way because in my eyes you look at any criticism as coming only from the bitter people. You say you want to know why things are the way they are but you just stated you don’t really care so what is it bro. Are we going to do this every topic and reach the same conclusion that we won’t agree?
I don’t think Black women go that hard at Black men in the mainstream I think that is some YouTube shit made to look more common.
I mean we haven’t had any women besides maybe race go in on dudes. The opposite cannot be said you’re literally on this site and don’t see it. Is it because you agree with it? You got entire thesis for me but quiet on the opposite side.
SeaSnake
OG
I did t say it was the same but it did not come from nowhere but that’s not part of the discussion
Mr BFK
Active Member
I understand both sides of the argument going on in here
but I want to know what is the Black woman equivalent of term "bullet bag"?
I think that is what gives credibility to the argument that BW bash BM more than vice versa
but IMO it's not really that bashing actually happens more 1 way vs. the other
it's just the point that there are forums that seem to legitimize BW's criticisms of BM more than the other way around
I can't ever recall a forum full of educated BM on a daytime talk show talking about how BW are too subpar in comparison
but I've seen/heard of multiple media sources with educated BW stating how many BM don't meet their qualifications
but I want to know what is the Black woman equivalent of term "bullet bag"?
I think that is what gives credibility to the argument that BW bash BM more than vice versa
but IMO it's not really that bashing actually happens more 1 way vs. the other
it's just the point that there are forums that seem to legitimize BW's criticisms of BM more than the other way around
I can't ever recall a forum full of educated BM on a daytime talk show talking about how BW are too subpar in comparison
but I've seen/heard of multiple media sources with educated BW stating how many BM don't meet their qualifications
So you went from "it's not even close that women go harder" to "it's not a big difference". That's a pretty big change there. And you're incorrect in that the shit Black men say about Black women isn't backed the same way because it's all coming from the same media sources. The same media company that's producing whatever random comments you're seeing about men are also giving a platform for the same vitriol to be produced about women. And in 2023 the way media is consumed podcast and social media have just as much sway as any other media source in how it shapes people povs. It's all backed by the same people and institutions you claim aren't.
Also While you may not personally think that music has the damaging effect as a one off ABC special it does. Because I can guarantee you that more people can quote "Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks" than a stat about the community and in home involvement of Black fathers. More people know that Jay Z once rapped "You know thug em, I fuck em, love em, leave em/cuz I don't fucking need them" in 1999 than can tell you what was said on a random ABC special from 2010.
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I understand both sides of the argument going on in here
but I want to know what is the Black woman equivalent of term "bullet bag"?
I think that is what gives credibility to the argument that BW bash BM more than vice versa
but IMO it's not really that bashing actually happens more 1 way vs. the other
it's just the point that there are forums that seem to legitimize BW's criticisms of BM more than the other way around
I can't ever recall a forum full of educated BM on a daytime talk show talking about how BW are too subpar in comparison
but I've seen/heard of multiple media sources with educated BW stating how many BM don't meet their qualifications
The somewhat equivalent would most likely be "bedwench". As far as to why it seems to be more BW being seen doing now as opposed to before...well just think that women in general have only had a media presence to present such topics for a short time in comparison. So like many other things there's an overcorrection that happens where everyone who felts ignored before now has a voice and platform. Now it becomes the job of the audience to use their brains to decipher the relevant shit from the irrelevant. And those who latch onto the most nonsensical claims are usually just looking for an excuse to be dismissive anyways and thats what the loud stupid "all men are evil" brigade gives them.
As far as the talk show type shit let's be real. That's never really been men medium for that shit. There's been other ways those complaints have typically be brought to the surface. There's been entire books and movies based on what women "should" be doing. That Steve Harvey Think Like A Man shit ain't sell for years for no reason
Mr BFK
Active Member
comparing rapper's lyrics are not really equivalent to a professional educated BW consistently quoting statistics about the shortcomings of BM
I would think the opinions of what seems to be from normal BW with degrees would automatically have more credibility than an entertainer saying rap lyrics
especially to younger folks who are impressionable
Mr BFK
Active Member
u think being called a "bedwench" is equivalent to being called a "bullet bag"?
and I get referencing platforms today such as social media..........but I think the point is that this criticism from BW goes back decades.........and I don't think it's overcorrection becuz we've heard the same comments in different forms of media
when BM said "bitches and hoes" in rap lyrics over the last 30yrs, meanwhile talk shows have hosted BW talking down on BM
today the bashing back and forth has roots that go past the recent social media blogs/twitter/etc
but it's hard to compare rappers talking shit to regular educated women calling BM bullet bags
being a bedwench implies fucking white dudes, but being called a bullet bag literally is making light of BM being killed
I really don't see that as the same type of bashing......which goes to the points made by @The Lonious Monk
comparing rapper's lyrics are not really equivalent to a professional educated BW consistently quoting statistics about the shortcomings of BM
I would think the opinions of what seems to be from normal BW with degrees would automatically have more credibility than an entertainer saying rap lyrics
especially to younger folks who are impressionable
This is true in for what you'd hope for but let's be real whose more influential? You think the average teen to 20 something is pulling up a Ta-nehisi Coates discussion on how Black men are seen in this world or they listening to whatever their favorite rappers saying? You think they showing up to a panel discussion on how the way welfare was distributed contributed to the idea that Black men wouldn't or in many instances couldn't be in the home or a Lil Durk show first?
u think being called a "bedwench" is equivalent to being called a "bullet bag"?
and I get referencing platforms today such as social media..........but I think the point is that this criticism from BW goes back decades.........and I don't think it's overcorrection becuz we've heard the same comments in different forms of media
when BM said "bitches and hoes" in rap lyrics over the last 30yrs, meanwhile talk shows have hosted BW talking down on BM
today the bashing back and forth has roots that go past the recent social media blogs/twitter/etc
but it's hard to compare rappers talking shit to regular educated women calling BM bullet bags
being a bedwench implies fucking white dudes, but being called a bullet bag literally is making light of BM being killed
I really don't see that as the same type of bashing......which goes to the points made by @The Lonious Monk
I don't personally agree no but I've seen that question before and that has been the answer I've seen repeated the most in terms of bed wench/bullet bags. Also a bedwench was a woman who was raped by her slavemaster so twisting that term to be an insult to Black women who choose to fuck with white men on their own accord is foul given the word's history. And yes the criticism from BW goes back decades. So does the criticism from BM like I said the platforms were just different. It ain't like Black women was just existing in some fairtyale land of equality free from judgement of Black men and they just lunched out one day and started saying wild shit.
And even if you don't wanna compare "bitches and hoes" you can easily then say what about the countless lyrics stating women are worth nothing more than their pussy? Aren't to be trusted and should always be treated as second class because...well no reason was ever given that's just how some folks saw/spoke on how it should be. Or the fact that there were and continue to be literal laws written and supported that tell women what they can and can't do with their own bodies and how some Black men have adopted and try to reinforce those same control measures over women they know. Or hell even over women they don't even know.
Mr BFK
Active Member
well let's be real.....we can assume most average teenagers will "age-out" of being influenced by rap lyrics at some point
when people mature they tend not to give too much credence to entertainers.........hence u even got lawyers/doctors/engineers who still listen to rap music and it has minimal affect on their real lives
but when u host forums with "credible" people sending the same message it hits different and it endures
so u take young black kids listening to messages from BW with degrees who have bashed BM for decades..........that message has more of an impact in so many ways
hell I can use myself......I grew up going to schools where BW were in charge (teachers/principals)...and listening to those negative messages did have an affect on my own self worth
and I've even seen it as an adult at professional jobs where BW automatically assume the worse about BM in the office.....we all know where that messaging came from if were being honest
so what is my son thinking when BW are calling him and his peers bullet bags?
what is my daughter thinking about BM when the "upper tier" BW bash BM that way?
Mr BFK
Active Member
@ the orange text
but please give an example of the underlined
Just go look at how many Black folks either already bought into or have been caught down the rabbit hole of conservative Christian values and how it dictates their stances on things
Mr BFK
Active Member
could u be more specific with an example
we could make a whole thread on Black Christian hypocrisy alone
but how can BM enforce laws or control others when they don't really have that type of power
Again...those same questions can be asked the other way too which is my point. There is no "worse". It's all fucked up. I hated hearing the "all the good Black men are dead or in jail" shit growing up too. Matter of fact if you remember the model Tocarra, fine as hell and was all over in the 2000s, til this day I find her stupid because she said that shit on a tv show years ago. I never pretended or said the shit was unheard of or has no ill effects. I talk to my oldest nephew, he's 23, about that shit to make sure he's not taking in any of that rhetoric as a way to view the world whether it's about women or men.
But you can also ask "what's a young Black woman to think when her peers and older Black men expouse rhetoric that tells her if she ain't fucking the 1st night she's not worth any attention?" Or "If you happen to find yourself as a single parent you're somehow not worthy of being loved and cared for because the assumption is you fucked an ain't shit nigga who left you." Shit what would a young Black woman think if she read an ABW thread about a woman being sexually assaulted and there's scores of "well maybe it's not really assault" posts or "why she trying to take a Black man down"? What's she to think when she reads about Jonathan Majors and sees some Black men commenting "see thats why he need a Black woman. She wouldn't have said nothing"
The shit ain't no better or worse for anybody. It's ALL bad