I said this same shit in another thread and got called dumb.
Raising Min wage is pointless when all they going to do is raise the cost of everyday needs.
COMMUNITY Raising minimum wage and universal basic income. Are these bad things?
- Thread starter SeaSnake
- Start date
Raising Min wage is pointless when all they going to do is raise the cost of everyday needs.
Which is to no surprise especially when I comes to salary and wages. Americans are taught to withhold that information to keep wages low. I had to tell the women I work with that they were being shafted mainly because they were hum on what they got pay.
Fam it’s good but how good is it when all the increase is going to do is be directed towards health insurance increase, rent increase, child care costs increase and education costs increases. Perfect example is the fact that all who remained employed or south better work will see most of those gains be eaten up by health insurance increase because they is no cap premium increases per year. Non productive costs drivers.
This is true but those costs been going up regardless. Wouldn't an increase at least soften the blow a little?
business owners aren't looked at in the same way because they can't be relied on to act ethically or accountably without regulation. that, and workers and customers make up a far more massive collection of society who happen to be at the dependent mercy of business (regarding their personal survival). in any case, if customers have the benefit of shopping around for the best bang for their buck, business owners have options themselves in deciding whose services to utilize, what assets to buy, how contracts should be structured, who they hire, what loop hole they can exploit etc.
the original point of low wage and part time work was to benefit profit margins. period. framing it in the empathetic sense of wanting to provide teens with job experience is just buttering up the cynical reality. might as well claim exploiting child labour for peanuts, as was the case generations ago, was a way of providing kids with early discipline and giving them enough pocket change to buy some bubble gum. they just offered the role for whoever might be willing or desperate enough to take them.
so, why are adults working these jobs that supposedly weren't made for them? it's either because they're content with the pay (but would understandably be attracted to the prospect of raises) or their dearth of skills has seen them reach their limit of employability. i'll say it again, this circumstance isn't always a matter of the deadbeat who slacked off in life in spite of an otherwise decent upbringing. some people are dealt all the wrong cards in life. in my experience, many if not most low skilled workers in big cities are immigrants. they're trying the best they can with what little they have. no civilized society should unequivocally cast doubt on the veracity of circumstances beyond one's control. "fuck you, try harder" is as privileged a statement as it gets.
plus, it's even less accurate to mention adults are now working these sorts of jobs as if they're purely at fault for straying off an idealized hardworking and ambitious path when many companies hire gig workers and migrant workers - most of whom are adults - precisely to avoid paying MW. they service both the everyday opportunist and the desperate. Not merely the teen with their eyes on the latest jordans.
i don't see why you're hung up on customers wanting sales and discounts. it's not like hordes of angry and entitled customers are forcing a companies hand. that's not how the dynamic works. the reason customers clamour for deals is because companies themselves offer them to make profit and avoid waste (like surplus or items near expiration or out of season). it's mutually beneficial. i can whine and complain all i want about the monopoly of cellphone carriers jacking up prices in my country but no amount of begging for discounts is going to do shit. they have the upper hand.
I don't understand the correlation you've brought up about MW and customers. do you mean that if customers were to pay more for their goods instead of seeking out lower prices then more money would go back to these businesses.. which in turn would let the extra profit trickle down to employees? if so, that's categorically false. Amazon regularly brings in billions more quarterly with no intentions of even unionizing. if a multi billion dollar corporation making disgusting amounts of wealth wont turnover profits to employees, will a humble SB? you fail to consider that these customers are also these same workers who are paid poorly. anyone with lacking income will try to secure a good deal. by your logic, these same workers are hurting themselves buying cheap goods, yet cheap goods provided by these same companies is what is incentivized to anyone facing financial hardship and trying to make ends meet. that's a catch 22.
Greed is a natural human trait but as with many impressionable traits its strength, pervasiveness and impact can be depressed or amplified by the systems and environments we're subject to. I think a system built on profit driven interests and w/o moral obligation to society is inherently compelled to selfish, individualist impulses towards power and control which goes hand in hand with the want for ever more aka greed. i've seen enough examples of capitalists rewarding selfishness, exploitation, backstabbing, criminality, coercion and greed to know what's up. power open the door to control, control opens the door to corruption.
let me finally make one thing clear... MW is necessary, up to a point. there's a reason over 90 percent of all countries have some form of collective bargaining for MW. these laws go back over a hundred years. just as there was reason for government to outlaw child labour, you can't expect a totally deregulated free market to feel obligated to champion what's ethical.
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UBI will be necessary eventually. With all the automation and outsourcing that's happening right now, it's going to be pretty much impossible to have enough meaningful work for everyone to do.
I know some of yall we laughing it up against the things The Republicans have their supporters believing, but you in here like:
"The peasants want a raise?? Oh my dear me, no no nooo. This job was never ment to be used to live off of or pay for actual things. This was just to give them something to do so they aren't bored & have some pocket money for sweets. If they want money to live, go pay for school, then get a real job"
"The peasants want a raise?? Oh my dear me, no no nooo. This job was never ment to be used to live off of or pay for actual things. This was just to give them something to do so they aren't bored & have some pocket money for sweets. If they want money to live, go pay for school, then get a real job"
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Reading that shit made me think of something I completely forgot about until now. When i was like 20, I worked at a Dealership in the back detailer/washing the cars they sold (new, used & service cars). We werent making min wage, but we werent that far off (was like $8 and min wage was like $5 something at the time). One day we noticed that none of us got a raise yet when we were supposed to, so they were bout to talk to the head manager for our department.
Well when they met with him and it was brought up ( I wasnt there because I had class at the time), the middle aged snow possum gunna look them dead in the face and tell them not only are they not getting one, but they shouldnt expect one because, "this isnt a real job" and "wasnt met to support yourself with".
This they type of people some of yall following like some uppity uncle toms. Which is crazy to me since we're on a majority black site and most the people that make min wage in this country, ARE BROWN. How you pro black but anti black people getting paid more?
If you wondering how that dealership story ended. Raises were handed out immediately when legal action was threatened because, a verbal agreement was made in the beginning about raises, when they were hired. Then a few months later most of us quit and they were scrambling, desperate to find new people and even calling old people offering way more money. Even tho we were essential personal of the dealership, we were easily the lowest paid employees, so no one cared or even went back.
Well when they met with him and it was brought up ( I wasnt there because I had class at the time), the middle aged snow possum gunna look them dead in the face and tell them not only are they not getting one, but they shouldnt expect one because, "this isnt a real job" and "wasnt met to support yourself with".
This they type of people some of yall following like some uppity uncle toms. Which is crazy to me since we're on a majority black site and most the people that make min wage in this country, ARE BROWN. How you pro black but anti black people getting paid more?
If you wondering how that dealership story ended. Raises were handed out immediately when legal action was threatened because, a verbal agreement was made in the beginning about raises, when they were hired. Then a few months later most of us quit and they were scrambling, desperate to find new people and even calling old people offering way more money. Even tho we were essential personal of the dealership, we were easily the lowest paid employees, so no one cared or even went back.
mofos are short-sighted and feel entitled to someone else's money plain and simple...........
I see @Bobjones keeps avoiding my argument about customers being just as culpable as business owners
no matter what u want to believe, a business cannot exist without a customer base willing to buy its product(s)
using the law to steer business behavior but ignoring the impact of demand just makes u sound naive
otherwise prostitution wouldn't exist in places where it's supposed to be illegal.........and ironically, using the law to influence a market only distorts the pricing to where there is excess (supply or demand), thus fucking with market pricing
so in the end the same problem the govt was supposed to fix only get exacerbated
and don't try to sell moral imperatives about what should be ethical or legal with business owners, but yet no one is looking at the customers demand that creates this situation..............the minute customers start refusing to give their money to businesses that don't pay a "living wage", watch just how fast employee wages will rise without the govt needing to interfere
but that will never happen because greedy customers somehow believe they are different then owners/managers making the same efficient decisions to run their business
I see @Bobjones keeps avoiding my argument about customers being just as culpable as business owners
no matter what u want to believe, a business cannot exist without a customer base willing to buy its product(s)
using the law to steer business behavior but ignoring the impact of demand just makes u sound naive
otherwise prostitution wouldn't exist in places where it's supposed to be illegal.........and ironically, using the law to influence a market only distorts the pricing to where there is excess (supply or demand), thus fucking with market pricing
so in the end the same problem the govt was supposed to fix only get exacerbated
and don't try to sell moral imperatives about what should be ethical or legal with business owners, but yet no one is looking at the customers demand that creates this situation..............the minute customers start refusing to give their money to businesses that don't pay a "living wage", watch just how fast employee wages will rise without the govt needing to interfere
but that will never happen because greedy customers somehow believe they are different then owners/managers making the same efficient decisions to run their business
the underlined is a straw man argument to the fullest SMH
and let's be real here.........u think u solving black and brown people's problems by raising the MW? how bout instead of having them reliant on working for crumbs, how bout u create a situation where they have the ability to make more than MW without needing assistance?
the problem isn't MW is too low, the problem is institutional racism is what put majority of black/brown people in a position to have to work for MW in the 1st place
and using ur story, u really believed u were an "essential" worker to the dealership because u washed cars? maybe to the middle management cac who obviously didn't know how to deal with workers..........but guarantee the mofo who owned that dealership wasn't missing u at all.........guarantee that dealership continued to make money selling cars, doing repairs, transporting vehicles, and all the other shit successful dealerships do to make money
I promise that dealership didn't close down because some mofos refused to continue washing cars there
and that is my point..........instead of helping our people see the bigger picture so they can level up
mofos preaching that the business owner "owes" them more of the profits when that worker has minimal skin in the game
this is why black people as a collective don't own shit in comparison to others, cause we too busy pocket watching while embracing poverty as a culture..........but that's a whole different topic
I had to double check to make sure I wasnt on some conservative subreddit, thats how wild this was.
Theres no way you've worked at a dealership before. If you did you'd know every department is essential for it to properly function. But you clearly dont know that and put importance on titles and not function. I guarantee that owner had a problem and had all those managers scrambling to fix it. The same way she'd have them scrambling if 90% those lowly salesman just left one day.
You think new cars from the manufacturer come in sparkly clean and ready to go? All that stuff has to be prepped for the customer, so that you have a customer. You think you're selling cars and making money if after someone agrees to give you tens of thousands for a vehicle and you pull around a dirty car with vinyl , glue & bird shit all over the paint, that they'll go through with the deal after seeing that? I bet you also think migrant workers arnt essential and scoff at them when you hear them asking for a fair wage.
This doesnt even make sense. What bigger picture? So because people are asking a fair wage for a fair days work, they're pocket watching and embracing poverty? Now you just making up shit.
Niggas wanna be white so bad they're mimicking racist white overlords and acting like greedy snobs. Now, they react to people asking for a fair wage like theyre demanding the owner give them a parentage of the profits at the end of each quarter.
You cant tell me you arnt a coon if we're talking about workers being severally underpaid (majority of them being black)and you swoop in to shield and side with white owners by calling workers lazy, entitled and non-essential .
Meanwhile when covid hit, all these "uneducated" "non-essential" jobs let everyone stay home and order, or go to the grocery store and get supplies. Those same people didnt bring nothing to the table then uh huh.
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Aye bruh, you still know a lot about firearms? I got some questions again.
No matter the age of the worker or the job, people should be able to live and not just survive off their salary. I hate when I hear people from older generations complain about younger people wanting it easier. It should be easier. Why should everyone getting fucked over be tradition?
We're already brainwashed to think that we should be thankful for 15.00 minimum wage while they watch us fight over their crumbs.
$30,000 a year isn't breaking the bank. Depending on where you live, that's far from enough.
We're already brainwashed to think that we should be thankful for 15.00 minimum wage while they watch us fight over their crumbs.
$30,000 a year isn't breaking the bank. Depending on where you live, that's far from enough.
bruh u must be trolling me and I'm falling for it........cuz no I've never worked at a car dealership
closest I've been is I've owned an auto repair shop...........and hell I've bought a new car from a dealership
the dealbreaker for me wouldn't be because the car wasn't sparkling haha.................and most dealerships outsource that work out anyway to a contractor.........that doesn't make the work essential to running the core business......maybe a salesman can call himself an essential worker in that case
u don't sound like u really are looking for a "fair" wage, titles/job positions got nothing to do with it
u really believe it's cool to tell somebody else how much they should have to pay for something
but I guess my points really do sound conservative cuz it's always easy to be liberal with someone else's money
and funny enough u using migrant workers to make ur point when they are part of the reason why wages are depressed for US workers
the bigger picture is already past u if u believe paying MW workers extra will automatically solve their problems.........cuz what's a fair wage? that's the point of this debate tho........cuz how u figure they aren't already being paid fairly?
and why is a business owner trying to be "white" just because they started a business to make money?
u in ur feelings using hyperbole talmbout "shielding and siding with white owners"
well what about the black business owners? u think it's fair to make it harder for them to run their business just because some 20yr old with no skills feels entitled to be paid more? that same black worker isn't supposed to offer a talent or a unique skill, but u think they should still be able to basically live off someone else's (a business owner's) sacrifice? not every business owner hiring folks is the monopoly man bruh.........they have to work to earn their check too
this is how u know people are not genuine about this topic becuz they use emotional takes to make their argument
mofos say we should just raise MW easily forget that the additional money has to come from somewhere..........u making it seem like every MW worker is part of some huge corporation making billions, when the reality is many MW jobs are being offered by business owners who had to work for their own opportunities too
had u said only adults over 18 should get a MW raise, or maybe older folks/single mothers/disabled people or some shit then maybe it would seem like u really care about adults being able to survive
but the truth is if u are in a situation where u are relying on a MW job to pay ur bills, then u are in a vulnerable position that u made for urself
too many niggaz want the freedom to do what they want in life, but don't want to be subject to any consequences..........u made some bad decisions somewhere if u grown and working for MW, trust me I know 1st hand
champ u sound like my teenage son until he actually started his own business........and u getting in ur feelings is basically saying u think black folks can't do better...........so they must need someone to give them a higher MW,..........cuz there's no way in your view that they can get the skillset needed to be able to negotiate for better pay w/o Uncle Sam stepping in like daddy for them
u obviously don't expect much for ur people meanwhile u calling someone else a coon.........shit is laughable how u don't even see it
had u said only adults over 18 should get a MW raise, or maybe older folks/single mothers/disabled people or some shit then maybe it would seem like u really care about adults being able to survive
but the truth is if u are in a situation where u are relying on a MW job to pay ur bills, then u are in a vulnerable position that u made for urself
too many niggaz want the freedom to do what they want in life, but don't want to be subject to any consequences..........u made some bad decisions somewhere if u grown and working for MW, trust me I know 1st hand
champ u sound like my teenage son until he actually started his own business........and u getting in ur feelings is basically saying u think black folks can't do better...........so they must need someone to give them a higher MW,..........cuz there's no way in your view that they can get the skillset needed to be able to negotiate for better pay w/o Uncle Sam stepping in like daddy for them
u obviously don't expect much for ur people meanwhile u calling someone else a coon.........shit is laughable how u don't even see it
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nah but my point about customers just reinforces how mofos are hypocritical
people claim they care about MW workers and saying they want them to be paid a "living wage"
but meanwhile these same "caring" customers stay looking for discounts and convenience at expense of the same workers they claim they give a fuck about
u ever go to a store and use a self-checkout line? instead of just waiting for a cashier, or refusing to shop where businesses deliberately use automation to save on labor costs
but mofos stay using self-checkouts for convenience..........meanwhile each of those machines is a job not being done by a real person
how about ur barber? if he said he can only cut 8 heads in a day and now he charging $50 + a tip for each cut.....that's more than reasonable right?
how many of ya'll still going to that barber weekly? I mean doesn't he deserve a living wage?
what about lap dances from strippers? how many times have niggaz try to budget their shit trying to get as much time as they can for the least amount of money? is shorty wrong now cuz she wanna charge $100 per song since she a single mama?
yet somehow cats act like business owners are wrong for trying do what makes fiscal sense
cuzzo really argued that someone should pay him enough to be able to live on his own just for washing cars.........nigga ain't even certified in detailing, or got a special tools, or even providing a warranty, but he want top dollar for his squeegee services :tuh:
people claim they care about MW workers and saying they want them to be paid a "living wage"
but meanwhile these same "caring" customers stay looking for discounts and convenience at expense of the same workers they claim they give a fuck about
u ever go to a store and use a self-checkout line? instead of just waiting for a cashier, or refusing to shop where businesses deliberately use automation to save on labor costs
but mofos stay using self-checkouts for convenience..........meanwhile each of those machines is a job not being done by a real person
how about ur barber? if he said he can only cut 8 heads in a day and now he charging $50 + a tip for each cut.....that's more than reasonable right?
how many of ya'll still going to that barber weekly? I mean doesn't he deserve a living wage?
what about lap dances from strippers? how many times have niggaz try to budget their shit trying to get as much time as they can for the least amount of money? is shorty wrong now cuz she wanna charge $100 per song since she a single mama?
yet somehow cats act like business owners are wrong for trying do what makes fiscal sense
cuzzo really argued that someone should pay him enough to be able to live on his own just for washing cars.........nigga ain't even certified in detailing, or got a special tools, or even providing a warranty, but he want top dollar for his squeegee services :tuh:
