Breaking News Police shooting in Baytown

[Kzzl]

I have to disagree with you here a little. I don't this is a warrior situation. What I mean by that is, we can't just be telling people to go out and kill cops for the cause. That won't help us at all because it will just be spun as black people killing cops, which the media already untruthfully claims is some kinda widespread problem. If our people kill cops, we absolutely do want them to do it in a way that is viewed as justified by the rest of society. Blacks killing cops and then getting killed by cops or convicted of killing cops does nothing for out cause. Blacks killing cops and then getting off because the killings were justified would absolutely lead to change. I bet you cops would be a little less likely to fo hard at black people if they new that we could kill them when our lives are threatened and expect to go on living our lives.

I do agree that some people aren't built for killing, but if we're emphasizing self defense and speaking of these actions only with regards to protecting ourselves from a violent enemy, I believe more people would buy into the philosophy.

In this situation warriors could of over saw the police as they approached that woman. In this situation a crooked cop would control their murderous impulses if they knew consequences were lurking around every corner. Black Panthers were known for doing this very thing, and as long as police did good policing there were no problems. Police are very aware of where they can get away with their unjust antics and they know to avoid areas where they can't. The areas they avoid are ones where they know citizens bust back.

The issue with what you're saying is that blacks have been yelling, begging, and pleading about these kinds of injustices for generations. It's becoming clear more and more everyday that we don't have anyone else in this society to protest to. We all have the right to defend ourselves and our communities and we should not keep waiting on a system that supports are threats to justify our defensive actions. We've been doing that already and it has not been working. Plus, just off principle, no one should wait for permission to simply survive a dangerous encounter.

 

[Kzzl]

There’s no true logic behind killing cops and you all know that. If that was to ever happen, what do you think their response is? It’s either lock up all people of color on sight or kill them on sight. This would give them more reasons to want to implement martial law and that’s something America doesn’t need.

Survival is the only logic needed. If your life is in danger, no matter who it is, you have the right fight for your life. If that means killing a police officer so be it. If the law won't deliver justice, if the law is abetting a corrupt officer, the government is empowering corrupt policing, then it's logical for a victim of corrupt policing to seek justice through their own means.

All that worrying about "their response", "better training", and "the right president" you're talking about has been done. It's come and gone and they're still doing the stuff people are scarred about happening. Stalling them out and worrying about "what if" is still accomplishing nothing.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

In this situation warriors could of over saw the police as they approached that woman. In this situation a crooked cop would control their murderous impulses if they knew consequences were lurking around every corner. Black Panthers were known for doing this very thing, and as long as police did good policing there were no problems. Police are very aware of where they can get away with their unjust antics and they know to avoid areas where they can't. The areas they avoid are ones where they know citizens bust back.

The issue with what you're saying is that blacks have been yelling, begging, and pleading about these kinds of injustices for generations. It's becoming clear more and more everyday that we don't have anyone else in this society to protest to. We all have the right to defend ourselves and our communities and we should not keep waiting on a system that supports are threats to justify our defensive actions. We've been doing that already and it has not been working. Plus, just off principle, no one should wait for permission to simply survive a dangerous encounter.

Agree with the point about a group similar to the Black Panthers, but they weren't out there on a mission to kill cops either. They only intended to use violence if necessary and within the confines of what is legally accepted as self defense.

I'm not really saying anything about yelling, begging, or pleading. We're talking about the circumstances when it would be acceptable to kill a cop. I'm not saying someone should wait until the cop takes a shot at them, but you also can't just be shooting at cops because you don't like their demeanor or something they say. You have to be mindful of what is legally considered self defense, and act according to that. If people just kill cops without thought, then they'll simply be labelled cop killers and treated as such. We don't want that. We want it to be known that we'll protect ourselves within our rights to the fullest extent. And if they want to protect the lives of cops and citizens alike they will put policies and actions in place to curb police brutality.

 

[VIBE]

to prove self defense will be crazy difficult, the odds of winning a case like that would be slim to none...

one case I can think of was the unannounced warrant search when they went in a few years ago and the dude shot the cop dead... they charged him but the judge dropped everything bc he was able to prove his case...

I haven’t heard of a case before that or since then...

if you do act in self defense, what happens when backup arrives? do you kill backup? what if they kill you for killing one of theirs? the idea behind it all sounds great and everyone has that right of self defense, but how well does it play out afterwards?? there’s no winning against cops. you would need a lot of evidence to prove your case no matter what...

 

[Kzzl]

Agree with the point about a group similar to the Black Panthers, but they weren't out there on a mission to kill cops either. They only intended to use violence if necessary and within the confines of what is legally accepted as self defense.

I'm not really saying anything about yelling, begging, or pleading. We're talking about the circumstances when it would be acceptable to kill a cop. I'm not saying someone should wait until the cop takes a shot at them, but you also can't just be shooting at cops because you don't like their demeanor or something they say. You have to be mindful of what is legally considered self defense, and act according to that. If people just kill cops without thought, then they'll simply be labelled cop killers and treated as such. We don't want that. We want it to be known that we'll protect ourselves within our rights to the fullest extent. And if they want to protect the lives of cops and citizens alike they will put policies and actions in place to curb police brutality.

I also am not promoting killing indiscriminately if that's the impression you're getting. But trying to get the others to view our defensive actions at this point is begging to me. We shouldn't even need to have that discussion, then it should have been enough for us to say it once. Yet here it is 2019 and we're still doing this. I can't call convincing society that blacks shouldn't be treated this way anything else after all this.

to prove self defense will be crazy difficult, the odds of winning a case like that would be slim to none...

one case I can think of was the unannounced warrant search when they went in a few years ago and the dude shot the cop dead... they charged him but the judge dropped everything bc he was able to prove his case...

I haven’t heard of a case before that or since then...

if you do act in self defense, what happens when backup arrives? do you kill backup? what if they kill you for killing one of theirs? the idea behind it all sounds great and everyone has that right of self defense, but how well does it play out afterwards?? there’s no winning against cops. you would need a lot of evidence to prove your case no matter what...

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't in those fatal encounters. The vids I've seen have shown crooked cops had it on their mind, getting out their squad cars armed and intending to kill from jump. Their victims lives likely to be ruined no matter what they did. Whatever it takes to survive those type of encounters, all there is to say is good luck. But it's my opinion that fighting back is better than just doing nothing. But that's if the victim even has a chance to do so in the first place with these trigger
happy racist.

 

[StringerBell]

https://atlantablackstar.com/2019/0...-the-ground-5-times-was-in-fear-for-his-life/

Texas Lt. Says a ‘Logical Person’ Would Conclude the Cop Who Shot a Black Woman on the Ground 5 Times ‘Was In Fear for His Life’

A Texas community is reeling after a woman was shot and killed by police during a struggle over the officer’s Taser.

Social media video captured the moments before a Baytown police officer opened fire on 45-year-old Pamela Shantay Turner late Monday night. In the clip, Turner shouted “I’m pregnant,” but her family confirmed to police that she was not, ABC News reported.

The officer, who is unnamed, was patrolling an apartment complex in the Houston suburb when he encountered Turner, whom he’d dealt with before and knew had outstanding warrants, Baytown police said. Lt. Steve Dorris said the officer tried arresting Turner, but she struggled with him.

“I’m walking! I’m actually walking to my house!” Turner is heard saying in the video, later accusing the officer of “harassing” her.

As the officer struggles to handcuff her, he deploys his Taser, sending her to the ground. A scuffle ensued, however, during which Turner allegedly got a hold of the officer’s Taser and used it on him.

Baytown police say the officer was forced to draw his gun and fired several rounds at Turner. Lt. Dorris said he believed the officer feared for his life.

“Our officer was tasered, and you have to understand what a Taser is,” he said. “It’s a weapon designed to incapacitate people. The question is: ‘Was the officer in fear for his life?’ I think a logical person would say yes.”

The officer tried rendering aid after the shooting, but Turner was pronounced dead at the scene.

“It’s a tragic event for everyone involved,” Lt. Dorris told Houston’s ABC 13. “Our hearts go out to the family of the deceased. We want to get all [of] the questions answered that we can. We never want things to get to this.”

The department is facing criticism from family and neighbors of the slain woman, however, who said Turner suffered from mental illness and didn’t deserve to be gunned down.

“She was already on the ground. Why did you have to shoot her?” neighbor Johnathan Little asked. “Why did you have to kill her?”

Lisa Carr, who lives in the area and witnessed Monday’s shooting, said she saw the officer standing over Turner as he let off five rounds.

‘She said, ‘Get off of me. I’m pregnant,’ and [then] he turned around and stung her,” Carr told Click2Houston. “She took [the Taser] from him and shot him. And that’s when you turn around and he says, ‘Bam, bam, bam,’ and just shot her like that.”

Turner’s sister, Antoinette, told the station that Turner has two children, both in their 20s, and three grandchildren. She also said that her sister was taking medication for schizophrenia.

James Edison, another neighbor, argued that the officer should have called for backup if he suspected Turner was having an episode.

“If you know she has mental illness, why not ask for backup first before you try and detain her?” he told ABC13. “He got up [and] she was barely getting up off the ground and he shot her like a dog. That’s wrong. And he needs to pay for it.”

Police said the officer was injured by the taser, but the extent of his injuries are unknown. His body-worn camera captured much of the incident, police said.

The officer, who is described as an 11-year veteran of the force, has been placed on administrative leave, which is protocol, pending an investigation into the fatal shooting.

 

[StringerBell]

https://abc13.com/texas-rangers-to-take-over-deadly-officer-involved-shooting/5301782/

Texas Rangers to take over deadly Baytown officer-involved shooting investigation
BAYTOWN, Texas (KTRK) -- The Texas Rangers will take over the investigation into an officer-involved shooting that killed a woman in Baytown.

The news comes hours after Trae Tha Truth and other community leaders called for a community rally to protest the deadly shooting.

Trae asked for community members to meet him at the Walmart on EastFreeway and Uvalde at 1 p.m. Wednesday.

The rapper spoke out about the incident on social media, calling the shooting unjust and saying that he does not agree with the officer's actions.

The Baytown Police Department released the following statement:

For the past several days the Baytown Police Department, along with the Harris County District Attorney's Office, has been conducting a thorough and comprehensive investigation into the death of 44-year-old Pamela Turner.
While Chief Dougherty has full faith and confidence in his investigators, he has also heard and understands the public demands for transparency. He wants the family of Ms. Turner and the community to have the same faith and confidence in their police department, and the officers who work hard every day to keep our community safe. As such, Chief Dougherty asked the Texas Department of Public Safety's Texas Ranger Division to conduct the investigation moving forward. The evidence and information that has been collected, up to this point, has been turned over to the Rangers for their review. Chief Dougherty wants to thank the community for remaining peaceful during their expressions of concern over the past several days. He also asks the public to please keep in mind these investigations take time to bear out all the facts and be fully completed. He asks for the public's patience while that process takes place. The Baytown Police Department Internal Affairs Division will continue with their internal review of the incident.

The deadly officer-involved shooting happened at The Brixton apartment complex in the 1600 block of Garth Road.

According to police, the officer, an 11-year veteran with the Baytown Police Department, was on patrol when he came across 44-year-old Pamela Turner, whom he'd dealt with before and knew had outstanding warrants.

The officer contacted Turner and tried to arrest her, but she struggled with him, forcing him to use his Taser on her, Baytown PD Lt. Steve Dorris said.

As he tried to handcuff her, she allegedly grabbed his Taser and used it on him.
Lt. Dorris says that's when the officer was forced to pull out his gun and fire multiple times at Turner, hitting her at least once.

The officer tried to render aid immediately after the shooting. She died at the scene.

Someone posted video on Snapchat of the moment the Taser was used on Turner and when she was shot. Police are now hoping to talk to that person and any other witnesses.

"You're actually harassing me," Turner can be heard saying in the video as the Taser is used.

Neighbors say they believe she struggled with mental illness.

"She wasn't mentally competent. We always tried to look after her. She would walk outside at all hours of the night. I would tell the office management she should not be left alone," one woman said.
"If you know she has mental illness, why not ask for backup first before you try and detain her?" said neighbor James Edison. "He got up and she was barely getting up off the ground and he shot her like a dog. That's wrong. And he needs to pay for it."

The Harris County District Attorney's Office is also part of the shooting investigation, which is standard procedure in incidents like this.

The officer will be placed on paid administrative leave, which is also standard protocol. His identity was not immediately released.

The officer was also injured by the Taser, but the extent of his injuries are unknown.

The officer was wearing a body camera, which may shed more light on what happened.

 

[StringerBell]

https://www.khou.com/mobile/article...ting/285-69155fd7-a828-46e0-ba12-cff45aa63350

Baytown mayor asks for peace following protest of deadly officer-involved shooting

“Baytown is a very peaceful community and we hope that continues to be the case.”


BAYTOWN, Texas — The city of Baytown has been thrusted into the national spotlight following the deadly shooting of a woman by a Baytown police officer.

The shooting was captured on a Snapchat video. Many of you have strong feelings about this case.

Some believe the shooting was justified, while others are calling it murder.

On Wednesday, Baytown police didn’t provide any updates on their investigation but we’ve learned multiple outside agencies are also looking into the shooting.

Baytown Mayor Brandon Capetillo is looking forward to an unbiased and thorough report.

“Baytown is a very peaceful community and we hope that continues to be the case,” he said.

However, the peace the community is known for has been shattered by this shooting and now viral video.

People are outraged by the clip that shows Pamela Turner resisting the officer.

Police said the officer shot her with a Taser but she was able to get her hands on it and shoot the officer back with the device.

That’s when the officer pulled out his gun and fired five times, killing Turner.

Mayor Capetillo understands it’s a difficult time for the community.

“We ask that any individuals that have a public opinion about this, if they chose to gather and make their opinion vocal in public, that they do so in a respectful and peaceful manner and the best advice I can give them is to let peace be their sword,” Mayor Capetillo said.

He said violence or threats against the city’s officers are not effective and won’t reverse what’s already happened.

Also, Mayor Sylvester Turner said, “Certainly proud of our police force that we have in Baytown but once again with this situation ongoing and the investigation we just ask for transparency and ask for a peaceful process as we await any details that are concluded.”

The city doesn’t want people to speculate as to what happened until the investigation is over.

We are still waiting to find out when or if body cam footage from that night will be made public.

 

[VIBE]

I also am not promoting killing indiscriminately if that's the impression you're getting. But trying to get the others to view our defensive actions at this point is begging to me. We shouldn't even need to have that discussion, then it should have been enough for us to say it once. Yet here it is 2019 and we're still doing this. I can't call convincing society that blacks shouldn't be treated this way anything else after all this.



You're damned if you do and damned if you don't in those fatal encounters. The vids I've seen have shown crooked cops had it on their mind, getting out their squad cars armed and intending to kill from jump. Their victims lives likely to be ruined no matter what they did. Whatever it takes to survive those type of encounters, all there is to say is good luck. But it's my opinion that fighting back is better than just doing nothing. But that's if the victim even has a chance to do so in the first place with these trigger
happy racist.

the worst video I’ve ever seen was the one wheee dude was sleeping in the parking lot of a fast food joint and like 6 cops surrounded his car w guns drawn and they waited for him to wake up and as soon as he did they lit him up instantly... that shit is the most horrible shooting I’ve ever seen on video... I’ve never heard a thing about it outside the thread that was made here

 

[Remy_LeGermz]

Like someone said, killed her cause he knew he could.

 

[Duwop]

 

[Farris2k1]

Her fam said the pig knew she was a schizophrenic cause hes dealt with her in the past...smh so even knowing that she was mentally ill he still handled the shit terribly, and where was his backup ive never seen a cop serve a warrent by they selves hell alott times if they happen to find you have one and you arent already in cuffs they actually wait for backup before trying to arrest you, whole situation was handled poorly and it cost someone they life but the pigs will only see she was resisting and wont give a damn about anything else

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I also am not promoting killing indiscriminately if that's the impression you're getting. But trying to get the others to view our defensive actions at this point is begging to me. We shouldn't even need to have that discussion, then it should have been enough for us to say it once. Yet here it is 2019 and we're still doing this. I can't call convincing society that blacks shouldn't be treated this way anything else after all this.

I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make. When I say others have to view our actions as being self defense, it's not about begging at all. It's about our people being able to defend themselves and get off for it. It doesn't help us at all if we kill cops to defend ourselves but still wind up in jail or dead anyway. We've only accomplished something if we can do it, and it be seen as justified as it should be.

 

[Kzzl]

I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make. When I say others have to view our actions as being self defense, it's not about begging at all. It's about our people being able to defend themselves and get off for it. It doesn't help us at all if we kill cops to defend ourselves but still wind up in jail or dead anyway. We've only accomplished something if we can do it, and it be seen as justified as it should be.

The point is that we have been asking for self defense and other forms of justice for generations. We've been trying to get this racist society to view our struggles as unjust and they continuously show they do not want to do so. We've been trying to get them to view our acts as self defense and they still choose not to.

We are denied, then we keep on having to ask again. Then again. Then again. That is the begging and pleading I'm referring to.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

The point is that we have been asking for self defense and other forms of justice for generations. We've been trying to get this racist society to view our struggles as unjust and they continuously show they do not want to do so. We've been trying to get them to view our acts as self defense and they still choose not to.

We are denied, then we keep on having to ask again. Then again. Then again. That is the begging and pleading I'm referring to.

So what's your alternative? Telling people to tool up and start shooting at the cops irresponsibly and without thought will not help us. It will just give them fodder to support the rhetoric they are already pushing. Even if you feel like we're at war, you still need to fight with strategy and intelligence.

 

[Kzzl]

So what's your alternative? Telling people to tool up and start shooting at the cops irresponsibly and without thought will not help us. It will just give them fodder to support the rhetoric they are already pushing. Even if you feel like we're at war, you still need to fight with strategy and intelligence.

Now the good news is that you answered your own question, so you're mostly there.

I still believe every non-violent option should be exhausted here. Protest strategically and put pressure on the authorities/officials that can influence that PD. No twerking, no dancing, and no other ratchet nonsense. Continuously advocate, go up that chain of command and make it known that this type of conduct will not be tolerated. And black folks should use whatever leverage they can to their advantage in their local. That's how you differentiate this from pleading and begging. Have something over their head that you can use that hurts them. And if that works great. It'll be a chance to prove the system can work and nobody else has to get hurt.

Now if all that fails, those that are willing have two choices: Find the crooked cop that committed the crime or find a next of kin. What people do when they find them is up to their interpretation of justice when the law fails us.

The bad news is that even I don't know if any of this will work. I'm always open to trying new ideas to solve this problem as I'm always still learning. So even if all of that doesn't work, we just have to learn from our mistakes and try again. But one thing I have already learned for sure is that we've been repeating the same mistakes, accepting checks instead of justice, and it's the same loop somewhere else the next week.

 

[5th Letter]

What other alternatives do we try that hasn’t been tried yet?

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Now the good news is that you answered your own question, so you're mostly there.

I still believe every non-violent option should be exhausted here. Protest strategically and put pressure on the authorities/officials that can influence that PD. No twerking, no dancing, and no other ratchet nonsense. Continuously advocate, go up that chain of command and make it known that this type of conduct will not be tolerated. And black folks should use whatever leverage they can to their advantage in their local. That's how you differentiate this from pleading and begging. Have something over their head that you can use that hurts them. And if that works great. It'll be a chance to prove the system can work and nobody else has to get hurt.

Now if all that fails, those that are willing have two choices: Find the crooked cop that committed the crime or find a next of kin. What people do when they find them is up to their interpretation of justice when the law fails us.

The bad news is that even I don't know if any of this will work. I'm always open to trying new ideas to solve this problem as I'm always still learning. So even if all of that doesn't work, we just have to learn from our mistakes and try again. But one thing I have already learned for sure is that we've been repeating the same mistakes, accepting checks instead of justice, and it's the same loop somewhere else the next week.

I think we're saying the same thing, you just keep characterizing what I say as begging. If cops have to die for change to be made, then that's what has to happen. It still should be done in a way that is consistent with the law. That's not begging or dancing or anything but being wise about the choices we make. Again, you brought up the Black Panthers. They had essentially the exact same opinion.

Now if you're actually advocating for random cop killings or saying that we should promote killing cops in self defense to the point that all the twitchy niggas with guns are out there fiending to get pulled over, then we disagree and I'm not sure how those courses of action could ever work in our favor.

 

[Kzzl]

I think we're saying the same thing, you just keep characterizing what I say as begging. If cops have to die for change to be made, then that's what has to happen. It still should be done in a way that is consistent with the law. That's not begging or dancing or anything but being wise about the choices we make. Again, you brought up the Black Panthers. They had essentially the exact same opinion.

Now if you're actually advocating for random cop killings or saying that we should promote killing cops in self defense to the point that all the twitchy niggas with guns are out there fiending to get pulled over, then we disagree and I'm not sure how those courses of action could ever work in our favor.

I call it begging and pleading cause that's what I is. The definitions are clear as day. And I've never advocated random killings, which I have stated, so I don't know why you keep mentioning it with me. The dancing and ratchet shit I referred to is in reference to how some of these protest can turn into parties, that needs to stop.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I call it begging and pleading cause that's what I is. The definitions are clear as day. And I've never advocated random killings, which I have stated, so I don't know why you keep mentioning it with me. The dancing and ratchet shit I referred to is in reference to how some of these protest can turn into parties, that needs to stop.

You need to check the dictionary again bruh. In no way is telling people to be up on their rights and to act according to their right's begging. That's a borderline retarded thing to say, which is why I'm having difficulty reconciling it with all the reasonable stuff you're saying.

And I didn't know about the protests turning ratchet. That shit is ridiculous, but not surprising, given we have a topic on this board right now where some people don't seem to get the concept of a time and a place for everything.