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Mysogynoir for Cavemen

shutupGabi said:
I'm enjoying how ppl are acting like everyday interactions between men and women based on how we are socialized and influenced are not examples of patriarchy 🙂
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This is the kind of generalization I was talking about. You're not wrong. Some everyday interactions are products of societal conditioning. Some are products of just our natural, biological impulses. My question for you is, how do you know which influences are societal and which are biological? How do you know that some of the influences that you chalk up to patriarchy don't exists because it's how humans have always naturally interacted.

For example, is men pursuing women and women choosing the result of the patriarchy? Or is that just what humans do from a biological standpoint like thousands of other species of animals?
 
The Lonious Monk said:
This is the kind of generalization I was talking about. You're not wrong. Some everyday interactions are products of societal conditioning. Some are products of just our natural, biological impulses. My question for you is, how do you know which influences are societal and which are biological? How do you know that some of the influences that you chalk up to patriarchy don't exists because it's how humans have always naturally interacted.

For example, is men pursuing women and women choosing the result of the patriarchy? Or is that just what humans do from a biological standpoint like thousands of other species of animals?
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Condescendingly explaining patriarchy and gender dynamics to a woman as a response to her take on the topic is... bold.
 
SneakDZA said:
Condescendingly explaining patriarchy and gender dynamics to a woman as a response to her take on the topic is... bold.
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First, there was nothing condescending about what I said. That's you reading your own shit into my words.

Second, just because a person is a woman doesn't mean their opinion of patriarchy or gender dynamics is gospel that can't be questioned.

Third, I asked questions so my post was meant as much for discussion as exposition of my opinion.

Lastly, when two people are interacting with each other, there's no reason for you to introduce your bullshit into their discussion.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
This is the kind of generalization I was talking about. You're not wrong. Some everyday interactions are products of societal conditioning. Some are products of just our natural, biological impulses. My question for you is, how do you know which influences are societal and which are biological? How do you know that some of the influences that you chalk up to patriarchy don't exists because it's how humans have always naturally interacted.

For example, is men pursuing women and women choosing the result of the patriarchy? Or is that just what humans do from a biological standpoint like thousands of other species of animals?
Click to expand...
not to answer your question with a question, but this is what i'm getting at with socialization...how have we 'naturally' interacted? bc for thousands of yrs we've been told men occupy a certain space and women occupy a certain space. come to find out men and women have been doing the same things and taking up each other's roles prior to colonization. ex: men are hunters and women stayed back with the kids. then we get studies saying women were actually amazing hunters lol. these narratives get repeated over and over and reinforced throughout culture by ppl with agendas so ppl believe "this is how things always have been" when they haven't. i'm not denying there are differences between men and women and we've organized ourselves based on these differences, but how those differences are framed sets the precedent of how we interact. niggas didn't even wana accept they are some gossiping ass hoes til this year cuz me and @Tayboo been on y'all neck about it. this country was set up to run off what white men think is acceptable and it trickles down into everything else. we need to start inspecting if these ideals are serving us and are in our best interest in the current day.

we see it with race all the fuckin time. anti blackness is global and they came up with phrenology and all types of bunk science and other bullshit across all institutions to justify our subjugation. ppl don't believe things they don't think benefits them. it benefits cacs to think they're better than everyone else and support ideologies that uphold it. it benefits men to think and behave in ways that get respect from other men. I work around 90% dudes and when they say weird shit I ask them why they think that...they have no idea where it came from. that tells me that it ain't natural it just sounds good so you go with it. we're conditioned into a lot of our behaviors and thought processes.
 
The roles established between men and women didn't begin with colonization, they've been around since we came into this world. They're based on evolution and our biological differences. Women stayed back with the kids because they are significantly weaker physically, and at the same time way more equipped to nurture. Women can have babies, Men cannot. Raising a family would have bene impractical with the mother trying to do masculine duties while bringing children into the world. Current society where we have others raising our kids is not good, and why things have bene declining more and more.

I get why the patriarchy annoys some, it's an undeniable truth that they can't get around. But it IS a truth of how every civilization on this Earth has thrived. No amount of feminist pseudo intellectualism that white women has pushed the past 100 years will change that. This twist I've seen recently with people trying to tie the patriarchy to racist ideals is funny though, makes zero sense. Families led with men do better and it's not even close.
 
ThaManMythLegnd said:
The roles established between men and women didn't begin with colonization, they've been around since we came into this world. They're based on evolution and our biological differences. Women stayed back with the kids because they are significantly weaker physically, and at the same time way more equipped to nurture. Women can have babies, Men cannot. Raising a family would have bene impractical with the mother trying to do masculine duties while bringing children into the world. Current society where we have others raising our kids is not good, and why things have bene declining more and more.

I get why the patriarchy annoys some, it's an undeniable truth that they can't get around. But it IS a truth of how every civilization on this Earth has thrived. No amount of feminist pseudo intellectualism that white women has pushed the past 100 years will change that. This twist I've seen recently with people trying to tie the patriarchy to racist ideals is funny though, makes zero sense. Families led with men do better and it's not even close.
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Nigga it's 2024. The pyramids is already built. Civilizations been here. Update the hardware and move forward.
 
shutupGabi said:
not to answer your question with a question, but this is what i'm getting at with socialization...how have we 'naturally' interacted? bc for thousands of yrs we've been told men occupy a certain space and women occupy a certain space. come to find out men and women have been doing the same things and taking up each other's roles prior to colonization. ex: men are hunters and women stayed back with the kids. then we get studies saying women were actually amazing hunters lol. these narratives get repeated over and over and reinforced throughout culture by ppl with agendas so ppl believe "this is how things always have been" when they haven't. i'm not denying there are differences between men and women and we've organized ourselves based on these differences, but how those differences are framed sets the precedent of how we interact. niggas didn't even wana accept they are some gossiping ass hoes til this year cuz me and @Tayboo been on y'all neck about it. this country was set up to run off what white men think is acceptable and it trickles down into everything else. we need to start inspecting if these ideals are serving us and are in our best interest in the current day.

we see it with race all the fuckin time. anti blackness is global and they came up with phrenology and all types of bunk science and other bullshit across all institutions to justify our subjugation. ppl don't believe things they don't think benefits them. it benefits cacs to think they're better than everyone else and support ideologies that uphold it. it benefits men to think and behave in ways that get respect from other men. I work around 90% dudes and when they say weird shit I ask them why they think that...they have no idea where it came from. that tells me that it ain't natural it just sounds good so you go with it. we're conditioned into a lot of our behaviors and thought processes.
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I hear you. It's basically impossible to quantify what's natural and what's the product of conditioning. All I'll say is that we can't let outliers override the rule. Sure there have been cultures where women were hunters and warriors, but by and large those roles has been held by men.

To your point, it's like how we've been conditioned to think that caring for children is women's work when over the course of history it was almost always a shared responsibility.

Other than that I got nothing. Good points.
 
I don't want to derail this shit though. I got bigger fish to fry but I want to keep it respectful.

@ThaManMythLegnd - you might be a straight-up caveman sexist but you know how to make fire though so you think you're not a caveman.
 
SneakDZA said:
I don't want to derail this shit though. I got bigger fish to fry but I want to keep it respectful.

@ThaManMythLegnd - you might be a straight-up caveman sexist but you know how to make fire though so you think you're not a caveman.
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@SneakDZA
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