Jay-Z Called T.I About Being Ranked #2 Under Pac On His Goat List

Revolver Ocelot said:
It's bullshit cause y'all just arbitrarily pick Jay. Outkast really took off w/ Aquemini & Stankonia, after Big & Pac died, why not them. Redman's biggest album was Doc's da Name, after Big & Pac, why not him.

Furthermore if Pac & Bigge dying was all Jay needed to jumpstart his career, Vol. 1 would've been his breakout album, not Vol. 2

Like I said bullshit.
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Jay was going to become a superstar regardless ,when he dropped volume 2 dmx was the biggest rapper in New York and he dropped 2 albums in 98 and that didn't stop Jay Z ascension
 
Lot of Nas stans on here. Niggas will forever vote Nas over Pac in everything. Doesn't mean the song is better. Just means its Pro Nas and FUCK TUPAC lol.
 
Sion said:
Tupac is THE greatest rapper of all time. You niggas saying no just for shock value and to be "different". Hov made me wanna get money, Big made me wanna get a Jesus piece but Pac touched my soul and made me want to be president and uplift my people. Y'all can miss me with the bullshit.
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Pac was a middle of the road rapper who's content appealed to the emo thug or wannabe thug. Even I have a few joints by dude that I fuck with and it's not because he was kickin the lyrical skills or anything like that; I like them because they spoke to me emotionally at specific times in my life (I Get Around, Do For Love, and to a lesser degree Changes).

Mind you, the majority of current Pac stans didn't really fuck with him until he got locked up, dropping "Me Against The World" a month after he was shipped off to prison. When Suge Knight stepped in to bail him out while his appeal was underway, that's the point where niggas really took notice and the evidence is there to support that notion.

You gotta think about it: 2Pacalypse took 4 years just to hit gold. Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z took 8 months to hit gold and another 2 years to hit platinum. Both albums didn't hit their final RIAA certification until AFTER he got locked up, meaning that it took Pac going to prison to renew interest in his music and cats were only checking out his two previous releases after a.) he went to prison and b.) subsequently released Me Against The World. Truthfully, it was his legal problems and antics that spurred any interest in dude. You had the shooting with the undercover cops, the rape case, and the Quad Studio incident, plus Pac spittin' at the camera... I wholeheartedly believe that had it not been for that, his older albums would have stayed at less than Gold and Gold respectively. Take away the legal shit and Me Against The World likely would have been his best selling album (but I doubt it would have even breached platinum) and All Eyes on Me and the Makaveli project simply wouldn't exist.
 
GNS said:
U dont gotta be on no fuck tupac shit to acknowledge that nas is better.

That's because nas is better than tupac!
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To Y'ALL he's better. NaS ain't fucking wit Pac on his best day in my eyes lol. NaS got the personality of a fucking cereal box. T.I. had it right Pac the GOAT.

And as for Jay-Z: Tough Break nigga deal wit it. Deal with the fact that no matter how much fucking money you make, how Beyonce is ya wife, no matter how much you win at life niggaz will continue to say both BIG and Pac are better than you. You insecure cuz you ugly as fuck and it bothers you. Now get yo ass back in the trunk

 

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konceptjones said:
Pac was a middle of the road rapper who's content appealed to the emo thug or wannabe thug. Even I have a few joints by dude that I fuck with and it's not because he was kickin the lyrical skills or anything like that; I like them because they spoke to me emotionally at specific times in my life (I Get Around, Do For Love, and to a lesser degree Changes).

Mind you, the majority of current Pac stans didn't really fuck with him until he got locked up, dropping "Me Against The World" a month after he was shipped off to prison. When Suge Knight stepped in to bail him out while his appeal was underway, that's the point where niggas really took notice and the evidence is there to support that notion.

You gotta think about it: 2Pacalypse took 4 years just to hit gold. Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z took 8 months to hit gold and another 2 years to hit platinum. Both albums didn't hit their final RIAA certification until AFTER he got locked up, meaning that it took Pac going to prison to renew interest in his music and cats were only checking out his two previous releases after a.) he went to prison and b.) subsequently released Me Against The World. Truthfully, it was his legal problems and antics that spurred any interest in dude. You had the shooting with the undercover cops, the rape case, and the Quad Studio incident, plus Pac spittin' at the camera... I wholeheartedly believe that had it not been for that, his older albums would have stayed at less than Gold and Gold respectively. Take away the legal shit and Me Against The World likely would have been his best selling album (but I doubt it would have even breached platinum) and All Eyes on Me and the Makaveli project simply wouldn't exist.
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Pac's music is universal bruh. It appealed to people from all walks of life. To each his own, but that nigga got countless songs that either speak to you or it affected some kind of emotion in you. Nigga got a song for every occasion. Nigga is a goat rapper. Nobody want to stop talking bout this nigga. How many threads are mentioned on here about him? You, Cain, 5Grand and some of you others don't fuck wit him like that cool. He never tried to be the best rapper he even said that, not him or Scarface gave a fuck about that title that's why they appealed to me and I'm not a thug at all lol.

Yeah 2Pacalypse Now wasn't a right out the gate GOAT album. Pac's production before '94 was suspect as fuck. So was his flow. It was when he got with Easy Mo Bee and Johnny "J" when his production got better, along wit Daz, and a few good beats from other producers. And his flow and vocals got better when he dropped Me Against the World and when he started runnin' wit' Death Row. But still, that nigga came right out the gate personifying the struggles of the young black male in America and he did it better than every fuckin' body. Trapped? Panther Power? Pac was wit the shits bruh.

Me Against the World, All Eyez On Me, and Makaveli are arguably regarded as classics Universally. Ain't too many niggaz puttin' out 3 Classics back to back to back like that. Yeah the nigga was controversial as fuck and ain't even catch his first charge until he got famous. But that nigga was going to blow regardless, especially if he wouldn't have went to jail. That nigga would've been on the move. You delusional if you think that nigga wasn't bout to sell records and get money. All these fuck ass rappers out here to this day could barely put a sentence together when they rap and still successful. Dude had a lot of heart, spoke his mind, gave no fucks, was pro black all day trying to get us our own political party etc. Only thing stopping that nigga was a bullet. And he took several of 'em.
 
Hiram said:
Pac's music is universal bruh. It appealed to people from all walks of life. To each his own, but that nigga got countless songs that either speak to you or it affected some kind of emotion in you. Nigga got a song for every occasion. Nigga is a goat rapper. Nobody want to stop talking bout this nigga. How many threads are mentioned on here about him? You, Cain, 5Grand and some of you others don't fuck wit him like that cool. He never tried to be the best rapper he even said that, not him or Scarface gave a fuck about that title that's why they appealed to me and I'm not a thug at all lol.

Yeah 2Pacalypse Now wasn't a right out the gate GOAT album. Pac's production before '94 was suspect as fuck. So was his flow. It was when he got with Easy Mo Bee and Johnny "J" when his production got better, along wit Daz, and a few good beats from other producers. And his flow and vocals got better when he dropped Me Against the World and when he started runnin' wit' Death Row. But still, that nigga came right out the gate personifying the struggles of the young black male in America and he did it better than every fuckin' body. Trapped? Panther Power? Pac was wit the shits bruh.

Me Against the World, All Eyez On Me, and Makaveli are arguably regarded as classics Universally. Ain't too many niggaz puttin' out 3 Classics back to back to back like that. Yeah the nigga was controversial as fuck and ain't even catch his first charge until he got famous. But that nigga was going to blow regardless, especially if he wouldn't have went to jail. That nigga would've been on the move. You delusional if you think that nigga wasn't bout to sell records and get money. All these fuck ass rappers out here to this day could barely put a sentence together when they rap and still successful. Dude had a lot of heart, spoke his mind, gave no fucks, was pro black all day trying to get us our own political party etc. Only thing stopping that nigga was a bullet. And he took several of 'em.
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You can't be the GOAT if it took your first two albums to get your shit together and finally show it on the third.

So you admit the nigga made emo music, which is precisely what I've been saying for years. And it says something that the cats on here that were around during Pac's run don't really fuck with dude. In my case I saw Pac as "conscious-lite". His music wasn't that great. The nigga very famously bombed on The Wake Up Show with Sway and Tech with, IIRC, Strictly For My N.I.G.G.A.Z; nobody was feelin it. Don't get me wrong, he had a joint or two back inna day like Brenda... and I Get Around but otherwise he was precisely what I said earlier: A middle of the road rapper. His first two albums were simply not hittin' like that back then, which is evidenced by their sales and how they didn't actually take off until AFTER he went to prison.

The thing about Pac is that we had far better Pro-Black, conscious MC's back then with cats like KRS-ONE, PE, Paris, Poor Righteous Teachers, X Clan, The Coup, Kam, etc. Since Pac fancied himself a Panther of sorts, it's probably best to compare him to Paris, and Pac can't even stand in the same room as dude. Paris did a better job of personifying the struggle AND was a faaaaar better lyricist that Pac could have ever imagined to be AND he dropped a conscious classic right out the gate:

R-486503-1401524588-8228.jpeg.jpg


Noooooooooooobody was on this level, not Chuck D and PE, not Pac, not PRT, no-fuckin-body. Shit was so incendiary that MTV banned the video for "Break The Grip of Shame". Paris called the white man devils to their faces, proposed killin' cops as payback for injustices in our neighborhoods, promoted the Panther's 10 point program, and threatened a sitting president with death and got away with it.

That's why Pac was lightweight when it came to conscious shits. Throw on a Paris record in the ride and niggas wanna start the revolution. Throw on a Pac record and you wanna stop at the liquor store and shoot the shit. We straight up banned Paris gettin played when we were out rollin the strip hollerin at hoes. You just couldn't do it, his shit changed your whole frame of mind and niggas would sit off talmbout "the pigs this that and the other" and not "yooooo pull over so I can holler at the light skinned hoe over there".

On top of that, when the label figured the heat was too much to bear after "Bush Killa" and dropped him, Paris put his money where his mouth was and turned his Scarface Records imprint into a REAL record label, complete with it's own self contained manufacturing plant and distribution network to make sure Sleeping With The Enemy saw the light of day. To this day not one rapper has done this except him.

... And since you brought up Pac's "Panther Power"




vs




c'mon... Pac shit sound gutless and lame in comparison.
 
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Mr.LV said:
Jay was going to become a superstar regardless ,when he dropped volume 2 dmx was the biggest rapper in New York and he dropped 2 albums in 98 and that didn't stop Jay Z ascension
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Damn I forgot X. Who had 3 of his biggest albums between 98-99, after Pac & Big died, sold more records than Jay & had just as many, if not, more hits than Jay during this time period.

But according to some, ONLY Jay benefited from Pac & Big death....
tenor.gif
 
The Mad Titan said:
Big was the NY Don, at the time, King of Brooklyn. So if Big doesnt die, does Jay overthorw him? I dont think so but thats my opinion.

Deathrow had shit on lock and the vast majority of rappers and labels shook. If Pac doesn't die and is still there to keep his foot on niggas necks what happens?
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So arbitrary bullshit like I said.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
If we're talking about making meaningful music then I think Pac is above Jay. If we're talking about raw talent and ability as a rapper, then Jay is above Pac. If we're talking about cultural impact, I'd probably say Pac because I don't really feel like Jay has done anything to affect the culture. At most, he's taken trends and fads that were already there and used his fame to make them bigger. Where Pac was pretty much the face of political/revolutionary/thug rap or whatever. Now if we're talking about taking rap and using it to reach higher levels of fame and prosperity, then Jay is probably the best at that without question.

All that said, its ridiculous for Jay to be calling anyone to talk about that. Like did he really think he was going to convince TI that he was better than Pac, and even if he could, why would he care. That's such a vain thing to do.
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but remember pac died at the age 25 who knows he could of improve way more as rapper
 
konceptjones said:
You can't be the GOAT if it took your first two albums to get your shit together and finally show it on the third.

So you admit the nigga made emo music, which is precisely what I've been saying for years. And it says something that the cats on here that were around during Pac's run don't really fuck with dude. In my case I saw Pac as "conscious-lite". His music wasn't that great. The nigga very famously bombed on The Wake Up Show with Sway and Tech with, IIRC, Strictly For My N.I.G.G.A.Z; nobody was feelin it. Don't get me wrong, he had a joint or two back inna day like Brenda... and I Get Around but otherwise he was precisely what I said earlier: A middle of the road rapper. His first two albums were simply not hittin' like that back then, which is evidenced by their sales and how they didn't actually take off until AFTER he went to prison.

The thing about Pac is that we had far better Pro-Black, conscious MC's back then with cats like KRS-ONE, PE, Paris, Poor Righteous Teachers, X Clan, The Coup, Kam, etc. Since Pac fancied himself a Panther of sorts, it's probably best to compare him to Paris, and Pac can't even stand in the same room as dude. Paris did a better job of personifying the struggle AND was a faaaaar better lyricist that Pac could have ever imagined to be AND he dropped a conscious classic right out the gate:

R-486503-1401524588-8228.jpeg.jpg


Noooooooooooobody was on this level, not Chuck D and PE, not Pac, not PRT, no-fuckin-body. Shit was so incendiary that MTV banned the video for "Break The Grip of Shame". Paris called the white man devils to their faces, proposed killin' cops as payback for injustices in our neighborhoods, promoted the Panther's 10 point program, and threatened a sitting president with death and got away with it.

That's why Pac was lightweight when it came to conscious shits. Throw on a Paris record in the ride and niggas wanna start the revolution. Throw on a Pac record and you wanna stop at the liquor store and shoot the shit. We straight up banned Paris gettin played when we were out rollin the strip hollerin at hoes. You just couldn't do it, his shit changed your whole frame of mind and niggas would sit off talmbout "the pigs this that and the other" and not "yooooo pull over so I can holler at the light skinned hoe over there".

On top of that, when the label figured the heat was too much to bear after "Bush Killa" and dropped him, Paris put his money where his mouth was and turned his Scarface Records imprint into a REAL record label, complete with it's own self contained manufacturing plant and distribution network to make sure Sleeping With The Enemy saw the light of day. To this day not one rapper has done this except him.

... And since you brought up Pac's "Panther Power"




vs




c'mon... Pac shit sound gutless and lame in comparison.
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That’s your opinion bruh. I heard of Paris, listened to some of his shit, it’s cool. I’m not into all that conscious dictionary ass hoopity poopity shit you into. I could give a fuck about a nigga rapping fancy metaphors, entendres and complex rhyme schemes. Just cuz u rap like that don’t make you nice. I bump wayyyy more Pac than any of them niggaz you named but again to each his own bruh.
 
You aint got the answers huh? Neither does he which is why he calling niggas asking them why he aint number one to them. Like I said, the shit haunts him.

The nigga has dissed both Big and Pac on some slick shit

Bit Bigs rhymes, ol "if I say a Big verse Im only bigging up my brother" ass nigga

He a stan ass nigga. Ol "me and my girlfriend ass nigga"

For the reocrd, I like his music. The dude can get on a record and blackout. But these are realities attached to his career and others as well.

But he the only one that seems so fuckin bothered by it. (Besides you)
 
Hiram said:
That’s your opinion bruh. I heard of Paris, listened to some of his shit, it’s cool. I’m not into all that conscious dictionary ass hoopity poopity shit you into. I could give a fuck about a nigga rapping fancy metaphors, entendres and complex rhyme schemes. Just cuz u rap like that don’t make you nice. I bump wayyyy more Pac than any of them niggaz you named but again to each his own bruh.
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yeah... it does mean you're nice. It's meant that from the beginning. And clearly you haven't listened to too much Paris otherwise you'd know that while he ain't simple like Pac, he ain't flippin shit like Rakim. He's in that middle ground.
 
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