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Is ABW ready to be mature? Official Pride 🌈 month

Swabbie said:
Southern Baptists are mad bigoted. I give every black pastor who with them the side eye. The Episcopal Church (rich ass mfers) are more welcoming though.
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I mean this shit right here is just a complete shitshow

According to the Times, the right wing of the already quite conservative denomination is “pressing for ideological purity and arguing that female pastors are a precursor to acceptance of homosexuality and sexual immorality.”

Men in the denomination wringing their hands over “sexual immorality” comes after an independent investigation last year showed that national leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention covered up reports of male pastors sexually abusing women and children for over 20 years and intimidated the survivors. More than 700 victims have come forward alleging abuse. The Texas Tribune reported in March that anti-LGBTQ activist Jared Woodfill overlooked sexual misconduct claims against his law partner and Southern Baptist leader, Paul Pressler, by two young men.
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BlackRain said:
A good person would give themselves that ability by being just that...a good person to the best of their abilities. If being a good person who performs good deeds and brings far more joy into the world and people's lives isn't "good enough" because they don't share the same belief as you then you should really question just what it is you're so staunchly defending. Because anything or anyone that rejects the best of humanity based on a belief or lack there of that may not even be in that person's control isn't built of love and care but moreso on ego and judgment
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You went to catholic school for 15 years and read from the KJV, I’m interested in what they taught those 15 years and what you learned in your studies.

They aren’t good enough because NO ONE is good. Every person has broken at least one commandment. Truthfully, they’ve broken all ten, even the command of thou shall not murder.remember Jesus’ sermon on the mount.. if you have hated your brother (anyone) then you have committed murder in your heart (spiritually) and if you have lusted after another, you have committed adultery in your heart.

It is the exposing of the heart, the nature of our humanity, that makes us not good.

Have you ever told a lie?
Have you ever stolen anything?
Have you ever lusted?
Have you ever coveted?

You likely have answered yes at least once here..how many times does it take to be considered a liar? A thief?

Once.

We are not inherently good. We can do good things. We can “be good”. But we have a sin nature that makes us not good in God’s eyes.

This is what the Law exposes of all mankind. We fall short everyday.

Your standard of good is different than the next persons, and the next etc. Someone out there thinks their access to heaven is blowing themselves up and killing others in the process. Some think it’s how many bodies they can bag in a bed. Some think it’s how much money can be given to charity. Some think it’s how many good deeds one can do.

What is good? Your standard? You can see the problem here..there is no standard that would be universal. So there’s no scale to compare any ‘good’ to. No matter how virtuous you think you are.

So what is the true standard to good? It’s God’s standard. It’s perfection. It’s why no one can pass any commandments. There is no one who is good. Only Jesus was perfection; sinless, which is why he was the ultimate sacrifice.

This isn’t me saying to you “if you don’t believe what I believe” this is God saying this is my standard and none is worthy to achieve it, so I give an outlet in and through Jesus.

God is the standard of perfection, that’s what holy means; to be separate from sin, to be sinless, to have no part of sin. His perfection cannot dwell in sin. So to be reconciled we are perfected not because of our own will or doing but because we are through Christ through faith. That’s it.

This is exactly what Christianity teaches from Gen to Rev. It doesn’t go against that… all men (besides Jesus) in the Bible fell short, from Adam to Abraham to Moses to David to Peter to Paul etc now to us.

Not one is good, regardless of the good deeds. But it doesn’t make good deeds bad. God strongly encourages us to do good, to even love our enemies, to pray blessing for them, to provide for them, to help if need be. If we see any fellow human who needs any type of help, we lovingly reach out in doing so. But it doesn’t mean we go to heaven for those works. Believing in Jesus gives us salvation.

That isn’t an unloving thing.

Funnily with the ego and judgment is exactly what you’re doing. Your ego tells you that your good deeds are good enough and that your definition/standard of good is a better one than God’s and your judgement is the standard I believe in is wrong and I’m wrong and unloving for such a belief. So either way you point it, we can both fall into that because you believe I do and I believe you do. So it’s a moot point to bring up. Trivial in the overall context of eternal life, my friend.
 
They taught much of the same stuff you're saying here. And I disagreed with it some of it then as I do now. No it is not a loving thing to tell someone that regardless of how they live their life if they don't accept the same belief as you do then theyre not worthy of salvation.

Another difference is i don't take The Bible as entirely factual. I know that there are historical accuracies in it but a good portion of is also about events that cant and won't ever be proven without a time machine to see it for yourself. So when you say the things you're saying you have to be aware of the idea that the person/people you're speaking to aren't looking at The Bible and/or religion as documented history and moreso as a personal guide. It doesn’t matter if we have the same standard of what good is because just as we inherently know what bad is we also know what good is too. And for you to think that you, as you admitted an already imperfect individual, can tell me or anyone else that because we dont fit your idea of what you think God wants is very much ego driven. You dont know for sure. You think, you hope and believe you are right. But you don't know. And to speak on the quality of someone's life and someone's ultimate destination in whatever the afterlife brings based on nothing more than your personal idea of what God is and wants is also ego driven.

It's not at all a moot point to bring up because my entire point has been that we are all entitled to have our own idea of what and who God is. And im saying that for God to be this loving, caring, welcoming figure that many of the things you subscribe to don't reflect that. And the idea that someone can live as righteously as one can yet still be denied your idea of salvation solely because they don't accept Jesus or maybe even the same idea of Jesus and God as you is in direct contrast to who and what you say God and Chrisitianity is. The two ideas can't coexist as you're trying to force them. And that lack of acknowledgement of that idea is what has driven and continues to drive people away from not just church but religion as a whole.

I mean just look at the article I just posted. An entire denomination is telling women tuey cannot be preachers for no other reason than they are women. So now are those women's souls damned to hell if they don't abide by that and accept that "truth" now? All their good works in the Church and in people's lives now mean nothing because they don't follow whatever random dogmatic law their denomination decides to enact under the guise that "God told us to do this". Going by your words those women would be unworthy of salvation unless they abide strictly by those tenants moving forward and if they don't then off to hell.
 
If I believed you were in danger and I didn’t notify you of how, why and provided an escape from that danger, is that loving?

If I did, is that unloving?

That’s what is taking place here. The OT and NT clearly outline and explain sin, what it is, how it has affected us and what is needed to reconcile the relationship to God in order to see eternal life.

If the Bible is true and I am warning you (and others) of your potential future of either salvation or condemnation, you do not see that as loving but as unloving because it offends your idea that “good people go to heaven” ??

Think about that for a bit.

Good/bad. Yes, we know these things. But again, being good, not compared to my standards or yours, but compared to God’s doesn’t make ur righteous.

I provided to you 4 of the 10 commandments. You, as am I, are guilty of those broken commandments. If you are found guilty in a court of law, regardless of whether you think you are a good person, you’re guilty of breaking those laws. What is the consequence of breaking those laws?

Fines? Jail? Prison? Community service?

Right?

But in God’s way we are guilty but do not pay any penalty because the penalty has been paid for us on the cross.

Believing in Christ is the only way, not because I believe it or said it, regardless of that God said it. It is His standard, not mine. If I had my way then I too would be in the worldly mindset of “good people go to heaven bc of their good deeds”.

Gods standard is much higher and greater than ours. We are selfish in our standard. My view isn’t of my own doing, I put my faith in that what the Bible says is true. I trust in that, not blindly and with a haphazard hope, but in full trust and full confidence that it is true and the standard that is before us.

As a former atheist I was in the same boat as you. In my reading and desire to understand the validity of the history and culture of everything Biblical I slowly began to see what it was talking about as I started to tell myself “if I apply this to me and to how humanity is, how does this standard compare and how is it greater? What makes this true? Why is it true?” And so on and so forth.

I didn’t agree originally with its idea of sin and how we are fallen. I didn’t originally agree that it was even a thing. But found slowly I agreed through a different lens such as “we are only human, we aren’t perfect” and realized oh wait, that’s exactly what sin is.

I ended up going beyond seeing a history/culture to a belief in Christ because the evidence that he existed and was crucified checked out. The majority of scholars, mostly atheist/agnostic, understand Jesus to have been real and have been crucified. If this and that check out, the rest surely do too, as these men and their families paid the price for believing.

We are explicitly told in the OT and NT that Christ is the only way.

This is not my idea. Even as a Christian it is a difficult idea because it almost feels unfair but what I feel doesn’t matter, it’s what is true rather than feelings and opinions.

We cannot both be right. We cannot be left to our own ideas because truth is not subjective. There is one truth and either I’m wrong/you’re right or vise versa.

Again, I ask, how is it unloving to warn of danger and provide an escape route vs not?

Just think about these things. If you’re as open-minded as you say you are then you would heavily consider our conversation and make a truthful comparison as to why, how, what etc. and not just be offended that your idea of good is completely opposed to God’s. (Not mine)

If you would consider the scripture I shared you would see there is no “interpretation”. There isn’t a “my interpretation” there is “this is exactly what it says”.

If John 3:16 says “for God so loved the world, that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”

Or John 14:6 Jesus says “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me”

Two to consider, what do these mean if this is just up for anyone’s interpretation? Or, what does it mean being it says exactly what it says?
 
The danger would have to be agreed upon by both parties. If somebody doesn't believe they're in danger ain't much you can do to change that. threatening them with eternal damnnation doesn't bring somebody to God through love it brings them in fear. And it's well documented what happens when people follow someone out of fear as opposed to out of...their own free will. You can't override someone else's free will. No matter how many scare tactics you try and use. You keep asking the same question of how is it unloving and i keep telling you it's the way in which that "love" is shown that's the issue. Every parent loves their child...but we all know there's a right and wrong way to show that love. This is no different. You can be loving and caring but if you express that through fear and control then despite how well intentioned your actions will not come off as loving at all.

I also noticed you completely ignored the point about the article I just posted. Guess that's just more love and care being shown right?

We aren't in the same boat because im not nor have I ever been an athiest. I just am not afraid to question and don't blindly follow religious dogma because it's in The Bible. And you can't deny there are multiple interpretations of The Bible. Or else there wouldn't be multiple denominations of Christianity. So are you saying all the others are wrong and yours is right? Is a Pentecostal worshipper not going to heaven if you fall under the Baptist way of things? If you're Catholic you going to tell a Lutheran "Yeah you accepted Christ but you didn't accept Catholic Christ and almost doesn't count".
 
Thanks for pointing that out, I meant to respond to that.

I mean just look at the article I just posted. An entire denomination is telling women tuey cannot be preachers for no other reason than they are women. So now are those women's souls damned to hell if they don't abide by that and accept that "truth" now? All their good works in the Church and in people's lives now mean nothing because they don't follow whatever random dogmatic law their denomination decides to enact under the guise that "God told us to do this". Going by your words those women would be unworthy of salvation unless they abide strictly by those tenants moving forward and if they don't then off to hell.
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It’s because of certain verses in the Bible that states women aren’t permitted to teach that they enforce this. Women teach women and children within the church.

Do you understand the culture for context here? Women in Biblical times were treated differently. Women were to walk behind men. Not have their hair down except in the presence of their husbands in their own home. Not to speak publicly to men. Not to ask questions within the public, only at home and discuss w their husband.

So w that in mind, can you see why this was enforced then? It’s been carried over and is still controversial today. This is called being egalitarian or/vs complementarianism. Still a major issue today unfortunately and a silly one at that.

Their salvation isn’t based on their good works or lack thereof. It’s based on only one thing, faith that Christ died for their sins.

If they choose to teach or not is meaningless to their salvation status. For one, it isn’t even a sin, as it is not even a commandment but more so a suggestion because of their times for the culture. You would have to do a study on its own about this way of life to even have a basic understanding as to why. It’s neither wrong nor right, it’s just outright silly.

Of course, bc of your lack of understanding and own standard of good, this will be a can of worms on its own 😂 which I care nothing about to discuss but if it has to be so…😬
 
BlackRain said:
The danger would have to be agreed upon by both parties. If somebody doesn't believe they're in danger ain't much you can do to change that. threatening them with eternal damnnation doesn't bring somebody to God through love it brings them in fear. And it's well documented what happens when people follow someone out of fear as opposed to out of...their own free will. You can't override someone else's free will. No matter how many scare tactics you try and use. You keep asking the same question of how is it unloving and i keep telling you it's the way in which that "love" is shown that's the issue. Every parent loves their child...but we all know there's a right and wrong way to show that love. This is no different. You can be loving and caring but if you express that through fear and control then despite how well intentioned your actions will not come off as loving at all.

I also noticed you completely ignored the point about the article I just posted. Guess that's just more love and care being shown right?

We aren't in the same boat because im not nor have I ever been an athiest. I just am not afraid to question and don't blindly follow religious dogma because it's in The Bible. And you can't deny there are multiple interpretations of The Bible. Or else there wouldn't be multiple denominations of Christianity. So are you saying all the others are wrong and yours is right? Is a Pentecostal worshipper not going to heaven if you fall under the Baptist way of things? If you're Catholic you going to tell a Lutheran "Yeah you accepted Christ but you didn't accept Catholic Christ and almost doesn't count".
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I’m not trying to instill fear in anyone, I’m presenting what is presented to us by God. For or against, but each has its consequence; one is good and one is bad. How one decides to accept that is on them.

And yes, again, bro, there is only one way, as w the verses I presented to you..Jesus or nothing.

And again, this is not my idea, as you keep telling me it is. I gave you the verses and asked you how they’re interpreted and you glossed over it.

Is it up for interpretation or is it explicit in its statement?
 
Are you familiar w the two greatest commandments? Without googling, I’m just curious as if you’re familiar w it or not.
 
Just realized that you didn’t answer my question of being in danger, you disregarded it and played the “we would have to agree I’m in danger” because the answer to the question is “no it isn’t unloving to warn someone of oncoming danger”. You can’t even play a hypothetical there because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

And the love you’re questioning also doesn’t fit your narrative because just like the standard of good you believe in, it’s about your standard of love. The same way you’re accusing me of having my standard “pushed onto others” is the very same thing you’re doing.

Read Isaiah about good/sin and people doing their own thing.

Read Romans.

Read the gospels about how Christ is the only way.

We both believe one another to be wrong. I think at the end of the day that’s where it ends for the two of us. The purpose of me continuing our dialogue wasn’t only for the two of us, but that everyone who reads our exchange, regardless of this or that, that my presenting of the gospel and its affects would maybe allow one person, if any, to consider this and the impact it would have on their life.

Dope conversation. I love these kinds of exchanges because I love to see how people think and live. It gives me a deeper understanding of God’s creation and builds me up and improves my rhetoric. Appreciate your respect and patience, broski.
 
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Food for thought:

If one believes that good is up to the person doing good then good/bad is subjective. That persons worldview is that their good is their own standard and there is no objective standard to compare it to.

So if another’s ‘good’ is bad then that person cannot determine that for someone else, because if good is subjective then regardless of what you deem as bad can never actually be bad, it’s only in your eyes but cannot be subjected to actually being bad.

Therefore, my worldview cannot be wrong by this standard.

But if my worldview is wrong and theirs is right, then by its own definition it cannot be subjective and is objective by claim that their worldview is the only way because mine is wrong.

It’s a self-refuting argument that holds no weight and is self-contradictory. It invalidates itself.

Which means, “everyone chooses their own good” can’t be true if my worldview isn’t allowed that.

That’s the discussion/debate here.

Which means absolute truth does exist and only one of us can be right, but the argument presented here of “anyone’s own good is good by their own standards” is self-defeating and doesn’t compute if I’m wrong.

This is why the absolute standard to compare good/bad to has to be greater than ours. We cannot be left to our own determining standards and devices because to each their own, each is going to be completely different.

The Nazi’s believed they were right in their actions and had they won the war that would be the standard the majority would live by, if the majority rules good and bad, there’s no argument against that.

If you can argue that, then it’s not majority rules or ‘my own standards’ but a greater standard which is God’s.

Does that make any sense? Let that marinate for a bit.

Alright, that’s my last piece, I’m done.
 
5th Letter said:
The White House has banned trans influencer Rose Montoya after she flashed her breasts at President Biden’s Pride party — blasting the stunt as “inappropriate and disrespectful.”

Montoya, 27, was barred from the executive mansion on Tuesday, as footage went viral of her pulling her shirt and cupping her breasts moments after meeting Biden on the South Lawn at a Pride party Saturday.

nypost.com

White House bans ‘disrespectful’ topless trans influencer Rose Montoya

The White House has banned trans influencer Rose Montoya after she flashed her breasts at President Biden’s Pride party — blasting the stunt as “inappropriate and disrespectful.&#…
nypost.com nypost.com
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That's horrible.

Why won't they let her...........I mean "them"............live their truth?

Sorry if I don't know what her.........I mean..........."their"...........pronouns are.


dude holding back his laughter clip.gif
 
BlackRain said:


jezebel.com

Southern Baptists Vote to Expel Churches With Women Pastors

A loud faction of the church is arguing that "female pastors are a precursor to acceptance of homosexuality and sexual immorality," the
jezebel.com jezebel.com

Look. More being accepting and open and welcoming...
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They might not have had grounds to expel them, but I definitely understand the reasoning behind it.

Basically, they know that most of these female pastors embrace feminist ideology.

Which automatically brings their motives into question.

Also, they probably noticed some of the things that the 2 female pastors they expelled were trying to push through the Church.

Started noticing this in my Church too.

We don't have a female pastor, but the female reverends we do have openly support a women's right to choose.

That's all well and good in the secular world, but you can't serve two masters.
 
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bootcheese3000 said:
Yeah, I saw that earlier this Month. Uganda's on that Bullshit again. Remember back in 2014, they passed some Law talking about Stoning People to Death for engaging in Homosexual Acts. That's some Biblical shit for your Ass.

On the same Token.........

@RaptureSoonUgoing? isn't Pride one of the 7 Deadly Sins?

Ok, I need to stop stirring the Pot. Ooo-wee, I'm not right.............

:lol10:
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Proverbs 6:16-19
Amen
 
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