VIBE
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@BlackRain When you were growing up what Bible did you read from?
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Is ABW ready to be mature? Official Pride š month
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Typically the King James version. I know in 2020 there was one published specifically for Catholicism that is supposed to be somewhat of an updated version but I haven't delved into that one yet. I've read some of the Protestant version as well. Especially when I was younger and found out there's a different number of books in each one
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
No one can live up to those standards, not a single Christian nor non-Christian. This is why we have Christ. Everything is always going to go back to Him. And no one, at least in this thread, is outright shaming or condemning anyone. Jesus came not to condemn but that they may have salvation. Thatās John 3:17-19, right after John 3:16.
John 3:18 speaks on that āthose who believe are not condemned but those who do not believe are condemned because they have not believed in Jesusā
Growing up w the KJV, or any version really, even todays Catholic used Bible the NRSV, all state these same things.
How can you argue against these scriptures otherwise? You tell me you were raised up to not think/say these things but the very Bible you studied tells you these things. Every version of the Bible keeps all this in context, regardless of the wording.
Again, I do not tell you these things of my own making up of things..the Bible is straight forward..āwhoever believes in Him shall not perishā āconfess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you will be savedā āI am the way the truth and the life no one comes through the Father except through meā āwhoever believes in the Son of God has eternal life, whoever doesnāt has no life in them but the wrath of Godā āthere is salvation in no one else by which we must be savedā
All the same verses from the same Bible you grew up with. I understand you disagree w these things but this isnāt the doing of man, this is the Word of God.
There isnāt my truth or your truth. One truth exists. Either Iām wrong and youāre right or vice versa. Because I believe Iām right, I share these scriptures and the belief Iām aligned with. It is loving to want to save someone from destruction. Iād be unloving to not want to share or see salvation for everyone.
If Iām wrong, then on this side Iāve got nothing to lose. But if Iām right then for the unbeliever they have another side thatās going to absolutely suck. Idk about you, but Iād rather be on the side of wrong in believing this is all true.
Because just because I was raised to study those things doesn't mean I was indoctrinated to think that's the only way to live life. I was also raised to believe that man wrote the Bible and seeing how man has used religion throughout history for their own personal gain I was never taught to just blindly follow but to question and don't just take information as truth just because. There's nothing wrong with sharing the word of God. I never said anything close to that. I've said what my issue is and that's your belief that regardless of what type of good life a person leads none of that matters if they don't believe exactly what you believe. That isn't loving or caring or inviting at all. That's the exact opposite.
And much of that is rooted in your thought that your belief is right because people seldom want to change their beliefs. I'd rather simply have an idea that also leaves open the possibility of taking in new information for a greater understanding. A belief typically closes a person off from further growth because you ground much of yourself into that image. An idea can be changed. I'd rather have an idea of what's right and be open to changing that idea versus having a belief that essentially has me telling me people "I'm right and you're going to hell if you dont agree with my beliefs" because that's basically what you're saying your belief boils down to. Where is the love in telling somebody simply because they think differently they're not worthy of salvation?
Swabbie
Active Member
Well I got a question. I grew up with gay family members so I have always known them to be just normal folk with a different sexual preferences than the norm. I have not grown with trans people so they are an enigma to me. My question is, is it okay for us to really lean in on the idea that sex *isn't* immutable? I understand that people wish to identify and express themselves how they feel and frankly I don't really care, it's their situation. I support people being happy if they aren't hurting other people, this world can be hell on your mental health. I just can't help but feel that reifying it in to law is probably going too far. Ultimately, outside of the intersex, there exists only male or female. This isn't socially-conditioned, it is biological fact. How you express yourself should have little to do with your sex and I guess some of this does seem a bit sexist; a man can wear a dress and claim woman as if that's what defines a woman.
I'm not trying to demean them, I'm just not sure if a self-expression should determine your rights and privileges. These HS girls should not be getting dusted in track by biological boys and I do think it's weird to suggest people are advocating for trans-genocide by saying that. Maybe the shit you read in the news and stuff is a bit on the extreme side, idk.
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
Man wrote the Bible but where was their gain? Do you know what happened to those disciples, apostles and Christianās? They were beheaded, skinned alive, crucified, burned, used as human torches, boiled alive etc..you tell me how thatās a personal gain? Even today, Christians are going through persecution in other countries..in China they have underground churches and are dishonored by their families.
Where is the personal gain in that? Has it been abused for personal gain by some? Sure, but the overall history of Christianity has seen persecution and absolutely no true gain other than spreading the gospel. Which is the ultimate gain.
People seldom change their mind..youāre talking to a former hardcore atheist turned Christian, so I definitely had a change of mind/heart. What brought me to belief wasnāt anything supernatural that happened (God spoke to me, NDE etc) it was simply because I became interested in the validity of Christianity. In research, the history and culture checked out. Even non-Christians affirmed the existence of the majority of the Bible (outside of supernatural things).
So that lead me to where I am today. If everything checks out, why does anything supernatural have to be a lie? They had no gain. They gained no power or favor, it was used against them. They were outcasted. Jesus, the only sinless man to exist, who was innocent and died a criminals shameful and dishonoring death by crucifixion, wasnāt a gain by worldly standards.
Also, there seems to be a heavy side coming from you thatās only negative. While every belief system is abused..even movements today are, there was been more good than bad..
Christianity has had a major role in science, medicine, schools, medical care, caring for the poor etc. Iām not saying they invented it but I am saying their role they played in these things were big..hospitals, schools, universities, the pursuit of science and medicine etc..they played a very large role in and we see those effects today but donāt attribute them to it because of how heavy atheism rules in these fields.
Where is the personal gain in that? Has it been abused for personal gain by some? Sure, but the overall history of Christianity has seen persecution and absolutely no true gain other than spreading the gospel. Which is the ultimate gain.
People seldom change their mind..youāre talking to a former hardcore atheist turned Christian, so I definitely had a change of mind/heart. What brought me to belief wasnāt anything supernatural that happened (God spoke to me, NDE etc) it was simply because I became interested in the validity of Christianity. In research, the history and culture checked out. Even non-Christians affirmed the existence of the majority of the Bible (outside of supernatural things).
So that lead me to where I am today. If everything checks out, why does anything supernatural have to be a lie? They had no gain. They gained no power or favor, it was used against them. They were outcasted. Jesus, the only sinless man to exist, who was innocent and died a criminals shameful and dishonoring death by crucifixion, wasnāt a gain by worldly standards.
Also, there seems to be a heavy side coming from you thatās only negative. While every belief system is abused..even movements today are, there was been more good than bad..
Christianity has had a major role in science, medicine, schools, medical care, caring for the poor etc. Iām not saying they invented it but I am saying their role they played in these things were big..hospitals, schools, universities, the pursuit of science and medicine etc..they played a very large role in and we see those effects today but donāt attribute them to it because of how heavy atheism rules in these fields.
I'm going to address your entire post but I wanted to address the bold because that's just a flat out lie. Christianity and Christian values has defined a good portion of the the world's struggle for power. And we live in a country largely defined on and led by Christian values. There's been literal conversion camps to convert people to Christianity so to say that Christians haven't gained or sought to gain power and control and have been this group of outcasts is literally rewriting and denying not only history but the current present. There are literally wars being fought and people being raped and killed all in the name of promoting Christianity. You even said our laws are modeled on Biblical principles. That's a hell of a show of power.
I don't have a negative view of the morals and principles of Christianity. Like I said I grew up in and around the Catholic church which gets the worst reputation among all denominations of Christianity and still have an overall positive view because I've seen the effect the true community of relgion can create for some people. The issue is the means some people enact to show those morals and principles. If you can't even acknowledge that and want to portray Christians as this persecuted group of people just fighting the good fight then you're at a level of delusion that's not even worth discussing further. I've had discussions with Christians about these very topics multiple times and if there's no base level acknowledgement of actual history and the current present in regards to the influence of Christianity on the world as it is both good and bad then there's no actual discussion to be had.
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
Iām kind of tripped out here..not because you donāt believe in these things but that youāre seeming to find them almost surprising. Correct me if Iām wrong on thatā¦
But it had seemed to take you back when I brought up that being good ā salvation. That only believing in Christ does. This is the gospel of Christianity. This is what all Christianās believe. That the belief in Jesus is the only way to salvation. This is what the Bible is about from beginning to end. This is what Isaiah 53 spoke about 700+ years before Jesus came into the picture.
This is what makes Christianity Christianity. There is no other system of religion that works this way. The Bible encourages goodness, as that is seen in the fruits of the spirit, but never teaches the doctrine that being good is salvation.
What in Christianity taught you or made you think otherwise??
But it had seemed to take you back when I brought up that being good ā salvation. That only believing in Christ does. This is the gospel of Christianity. This is what all Christianās believe. That the belief in Jesus is the only way to salvation. This is what the Bible is about from beginning to end. This is what Isaiah 53 spoke about 700+ years before Jesus came into the picture.
This is what makes Christianity Christianity. There is no other system of religion that works this way. The Bible encourages goodness, as that is seen in the fruits of the spirit, but never teaches the doctrine that being good is salvation.
What in Christianity taught you or made you think otherwise??
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
Broski, I agreed with you in the second paragraph of that post.
What you quoted was me referring to the men of the Bible not having favor or gain. I explained how so in that first paragraph of the post.. my bad that it wasnāt clarified as such.
I don't find them surprising. I find them in no way aligning with anything close to actual human nature. If the basis of the belief of God in the sense of Christianity is that we are all provided free will...what logical sense does it make then to truly believe that any one way is the right way to believe? Wouldn't actually being a good person matter more than who you actually believe in to base being that good person on?
This is what I mean when I say man wrote The Bible and you don't need a book to tell you certain things are wrong. We all know that throughout history how the written word has been used to lead people to believe anything you want. Why would The Bible, or any religious text, be exempt from the flaws and influence of the people writing them? Did their minds somehow become sin free and free of any outside or worldy influence while writing these tenants and rules to follow to gain salvation?
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
Dude, I have acknowledged and agreed that it has its bad influence and been abused not only in that post but others before it in this thread.
But you have not acknowledged the good it has also promoted..you acknowledged goood Christianās but not the overall goodness it has promoted nor the fact that Christianās do in fact suffer persecution for their beliefs and how in that, there is no gain to be had by the standards of the world.
But you have not acknowledged the good it has also promoted..you acknowledged goood Christianās but not the overall goodness it has promoted nor the fact that Christianās do in fact suffer persecution for their beliefs and how in that, there is no gain to be had by the standards of the world.
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
Free will is simply the freedom to choose. God provided one way, Jesus. The choice to believe/not believe is free will. But scripture is 100% explicit that that is the only way.
You say youāre open to new things/ideas/open minded..so this is where the belief in supernatural things come into play.
Scripture tells us in 2 Tim 3:16 that all scripture is inspired by God.. and 2 Peter 1:21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit
Also, Eph 3:2-5 and 1 Peter 1:10-12 also speak on God using men by the way of the spirit to communicate His Word
15 years in catholic school and this was never taught? Less than 5 years as a Christian and this is clear and evident.
I saw in another thread you said things peak your interest and you like to read and know things. You should read about these things; whether you come to a belief or not isnt my goal here. I just want you to be aware of the beliefs Christians have so you can understand better. Wildly interesting study. One of the best YouTube channels that pretty much hit every issue on Christianity is Inspiring Philosophy. If youāre ever interested, peep his channel.
Inori
NAWF
quick question.. how do you square the circle of the major differences between the old and new testament?
You mention the only way is through Jesus.. what of those people that existed for many years before Jesus came around?
Seems like a moving goalpost to me. If the goalpost moved once.. whats to stop it from moving again?
End of the day... I think if we can all agree that no sin is above another.. then folks that take particular issue with THIS sin.. should fall back with the stones they choose to throw
The White House has banned trans influencer Rose Montoya after she flashed her breasts at President Bidenās Pride party ā blasting the stunt as āinappropriate and disrespectful.ā
Montoya, 27, was barred from the executive mansion on Tuesday, as footage went viral of her pulling her shirt and cupping her breasts moments after meeting Biden on the South Lawn at a Pride party Saturday.
nypost.com
Montoya, 27, was barred from the executive mansion on Tuesday, as footage went viral of her pulling her shirt and cupping her breasts moments after meeting Biden on the South Lawn at a Pride party Saturday.
White House bans ādisrespectfulā topless trans influencer Rose Montoya
The White House has banned trans influencer Rose Montoya after she flashed her breasts at President Bidenās Pride party ā blasting the stunt as āinappropriate and disrespectful.&#ā¦
nypost.com
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
Can you provide an example(s) of a difference between OT and NT??
And Iāll get back to the other questionsā¦Iām at a restaurant
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
Jesus is the basis of salvation but prior to Him, in the OT, we had the forefathers.
Abraham believed in God, in His promises and His revelation to him. This was credited to Abraham as righteousness. God has promised a future where their sin would be taken care of. That future was Christ, the Messiah. Abraham, Moses and the rest believed faithfully in that promise. Abraham was blessed and through him came many nations.
It always pointed to the Messiah. There is no moving goal posts and the goal post cannot be moved period. This has always been the narrative and it has never swayed from that. Abraham when going to sacrifice his son but was stopped by God and they sacrificed a ram instead was that exact image that God would sacrifice His Son Jesus Christ.
As for THIS sin, we, as believers, are to call out all and any sin. While I wouldnāt harp on it, it does need to be called out. We are even commanded that if we see other Christianās in sin, to pull them aside and confront them w their sin. If they refuse, we are to bring along side other brothers/sisters, if it continues to be neglected, to bring it to the leadership within the church. All this is through correction, rebuke and prayer.
So this isnāt only relegated to a nonbeliever.
All bases are covered and we arenāt called to target anyone specifically. We are simply called to call out sin, being correction and the way to salvation.
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
@BlackRain
I wanted to hit on that I meant to earlier about good people..
If good people, based on their simple good deeds and good life, were enough to gain access to the Kingdom, then the need for Jesus is unnecessary. We wouldnāt have needed a savior if we could save ourselves; but we cannot save ourselves. The Bible speaks fully against that idea/doctrine.
Let me ask you, what does āgoodā mean to you and how does a person who is good give themselves the ability to access heaven?
I wanted to hit on that I meant to earlier about good people..
If good people, based on their simple good deeds and good life, were enough to gain access to the Kingdom, then the need for Jesus is unnecessary. We wouldnāt have needed a savior if we could save ourselves; but we cannot save ourselves. The Bible speaks fully against that idea/doctrine.
Let me ask you, what does āgoodā mean to you and how does a person who is good give themselves the ability to access heaven?
Southern Baptists Vote to Expel Churches With Women Pastors
A loud faction of the church is arguing that "female pastors are a precursor to acceptance of homosexuality and sexual immorality," the
jezebel.com
Look. More being accepting and open and welcoming...
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A good person would give themselves that ability by being just that...a good person to the best of their abilities. If being a good person who performs good deeds and brings far more joy into the world and people's lives isn't "good enough" because they don't share the same belief as you then you should really question just what it is you're so staunchly defending. Because anything or anyone that rejects the best of humanity based on a belief or lack there of that may not even be in that person's control isn't built of love and care but moreso on ego and judgment