The development of life is what begins. A developing form of life and a fully formed one or even partially formed, as in can survive on it's own, is where the debate lies.
Poll Abortion: Pro Life or Pro Choice
- Thread starter Chicity
- Start date
The development of life is what begins. A developing form of life and a fully formed one or even partially formed, as in can survive on it's own, is where the debate lies.
That's just it...you keep focusing on what you think when if you're trying to gauge somebody else's opinion on something then you should be asking what they think on a base level. You're asking a question and assuming a certain pov or applying your pov to the framework of the question and not leaving any room for any other pov. Let's just be real, even among people who support abortion the vast majority do not support it once the fetus can survive on it's own and by most is considered to able to actually " be alive". So asking about things like late term abortions is really asking in bad faith because ain't too many people about to be having mid to late 2nd semester and 3rd trimester abortions unless it's medically necessary to save the life of the mother. That's just a bad faith argument. Scientifically we know there's a certain point that we know a fetus can most likely survive on it's own. So trying to remove the difference in what would cause someone to not react as strongly to someone at 5 weeks vs someone at 20 weeks doesn't work because fundamentally those are 2 very different scenarios in the development of the fetus.
IP360
Doctorate & Ph.D in Bootyology
I have no dog in this fight. I'm not a woman. I am NOT gonna tell a woman what she can or cannot do to HER body. No man should.
The only thing I would ask a woman is to include me in the her discussion about it. The fact that poliTRICKans...mostly men...mostly KKauKasian are essentially sayin..."WE decide what you can do with your body." As if women are property.
It's even laughable that they hiding behind "religious values". We all see past the smokescreen. This abortion laws are meant to keep wyte women from killin off wyte men's "legacy". They see the writing on the wall when it comes to them. Now they're doing everything they can stop their inevitable fate. Plain & simple.
That's my 3 cents. I bid thee adeui...
The only thing I would ask a woman is to include me in the her discussion about it. The fact that poliTRICKans...mostly men...mostly KKauKasian are essentially sayin..."WE decide what you can do with your body." As if women are property.
It's even laughable that they hiding behind "religious values". We all see past the smokescreen. This abortion laws are meant to keep wyte women from killin off wyte men's "legacy". They see the writing on the wall when it comes to them. Now they're doing everything they can stop their inevitable fate. Plain & simple.
That's my 3 cents. I bid thee adeui...
So now you choose to ignore the "science" and research. Interesting how belief systems make that work for you.
Bow to Royalty
Just facts
Bruh, what are you talking about? I've asked opinions. People won't give them. I asked directly how people would react to those scenarios... no answer. I asked directly at what point in the pregnancy would people stop allowing abortions... no answer. I asked you directly... no answer. Then you say I need to ask people's opinions?
Plenty of people (not a majority, but a decent percentage) support, or don't take a stance, on late term abortions.
5 vs 20 weeks isn't a bad faith argument because 20 weeks is within most state's cutoff for having an abortion, and is before the point that the baby is likely to survive if born. So how is 5 vs 20 weeks a bad faith argument about 2 very different stages in fetal development?
A form of life yes. There's many forms of that.
It's bad faith because you're questions treat it as if the fetus is at the same stage at 5 weeks vs at 20 weeks so that has a huge impact on how someone would react. Also not even considering 1 if the woman knows she's pregnant, 5 weeks pregnant is basically 1 week after a missed period and that's not usually an alarming situation for a woman to be 1 week late depending on what's going on in her life at the moment as those things can affect a mentstal cycle. So to ask if someone would feel the same towards an incident affecting a person in a state they may not be aware of vs someone who has clearly made a decision on what they want to do isn't going to get you the answer you claim to be looking for.
Late term abortions count for less than 1% of them total. You can be sure that if as many people as you claim to support them want them that those would be included in the pro abortion stances but they aren't because it's not this thing you're trying to make it out to be.
Scandalust313
Unshakeable Unbreakable Victorious
Royal
Active Member
Like I said earlier. I would support a law that makes it mandatory to see counseling and pregnancy education after having an abortion( included in whatever money you pay for the abortion ) . I don't think people purposely get pregnant to then have an abortion. Abortion is the effect of lack of pause and knowledge about what's going on with a woman's body. Teaching about everything in regards to safe sex. Also I say counseling because people gonna do what they want in the bedroom 
. But I do think abortions ties into fears. Which is based on "lack" in some concept. Even if your financially well off, maybe you fear a baby will throw off your career etc. Babies for a alot of women come with stress and a sense of being alone, not having a village. And if you alteady have a child and have precieved negative experiences. you don't want to go through that. So definitely counseling needs to be provided. That's what the investment needs to be. In mental health and education so these woman 1. Believe and feel safe to have their child. 2. Learn habits and make lifestyle changes to prevent stressful situations.
The mental health and psychology of the mom affect alot. This is yet another layer of women not being valued. They know all the scientific information about the fetus...well what about the mom. Whats going on with her? And lol it's crazy how people downplay pregnancy. "Scientists" still don't know all the in and outs of the female cycle. What hormones causes this and why women experience
all the various emotional fluctuations.
You focus on the women more and it will lower abortions.
. But I do think abortions ties into fears. Which is based on "lack" in some concept. Even if your financially well off, maybe you fear a baby will throw off your career etc. Babies for a alot of women come with stress and a sense of being alone, not having a village. And if you alteady have a child and have precieved negative experiences. you don't want to go through that. So definitely counseling needs to be provided. That's what the investment needs to be. In mental health and education so these woman 1. Believe and feel safe to have their child. 2. Learn habits and make lifestyle changes to prevent stressful situations.The mental health and psychology of the mom affect alot. This is yet another layer of women not being valued. They know all the scientific information about the fetus...well what about the mom. Whats going on with her? And lol it's crazy how people downplay pregnancy. "Scientists" still don't know all the in and outs of the female cycle. What hormones causes this and why women experience
all the various emotional fluctuations.You focus on the women more and it will lower abortions.
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Bow to Royalty
Just facts
You keep saying they're fundamentally different. How? The main deciding factor that i keep hearing from people, including you, is the baby's ability to survive on its own. A baby born at 20 weeks has virtually no chance at survival.
I said you know the woman is pregnant in those scenarios. How you gonna know if she doesn't? You're making up weird situations that don't apply instead of answering.
The number of women interested in late term abortions are very low...I agree. But you can't rely on the 1% number to reflect how many women WOULD do it. They're illegal in over 40 states, and costs thousands of dollars. How high would you expect the number to be for most things in that situation.
Also, I'm not sure what brought all this late term talk on. My bad if it was me. I tend to be against abortions in general. So the point in the pregnancy doesn't really matter as much to me. 30 weeks or 10 weeks...I tend to lean towards it being wrong.
Bow to Royalty
Just facts
Thisis really the only post that matters from anyone identifying as male
Can infertile women have an opinion? Because not to be cold, but they have as much dog in the fight as a man. Less actually, because this could effect a man's child. An infertile woman is less likely to ever have someone carry her child.
You also can't try and create an imaginary number of people that would do it or predict an increase in them when there's nothing to back that up other than your own personal feelings towards abortion. You just said it...you're against abortions in general so everything you're saying and asking is from the standpoint of abortions being wrong. Your questions are skewed in a way that leaves no answer other than "I'm killing a child" which many don't agree that a 5 week old fetus is a child. That's why you're not getting answers...because you're asking bad questions.
deadeye
Warrior
I'm not ignoring the science and research at all.
An embryo, which forms after a sperm cell fertilizes an egg, is the earliest form of life.
For the most part, pro-abortion people are just basing their opinions on whether or not they want to keep the child.
Bow to Royalty
Just facts
How are they bad questions unless you just won't answer because it sounds hypocritical? ESPECIALLY the first one.
1st answer can be "Yes I'm against that law. He didn't take a second life, so he shouldn't be charged for a second murder."
2nd answer can be "If it's early in the pregnancy (before about 24 weeks) I'd have no problem with her drinking/smoking because she's not hurting a living thing."
3rd answer can be "I wouldn't view it as worse if it's early in the pregnancy because he's still only hurting the woman. There's no one inside her to hurt."
When you ask a question with built in assumed answers you want...that's a loaded question. You literally just proved my point.
Now that very last part...that's where some of this discussion lies at as well and that's ultimately what drives the decision making. The time frame just muddies up the discussion on whether or not that embryo is a life of its own
Bow to Royalty
Just facts
What imaginary number did I try to make up? And common sense predicts an increase. If you have a procedure that's only available in 7 states become available in all 50 states then the price would likely go down (supply and demand) and more people would have nearby access. I don't think it's a reach that the number would go up when you start removing significant obstacles. I'm not saying it'd be 8% or anything. Just that the 1% number would go up.
Bow to Royalty
Just facts
How is showing that the question could be answered in different ways proving its a loaded question.
If a man kills a woman that's 20 weeks pregnant he can be charged for double homicide. Do you agree with that law?
Would this assumed increase even be consequential? Most likely not so bringing it up is serves no purpose because the overall number would still hold little to no significance. You're basically taking what is literally 99% of the time done in a worst case scenario and trying to insinuate that there's gonna be an increase of people doing this just because when that's just not what happens. The vast majority of people who get abortions simply don't have the money to pay for all that a late term abortion would cost so if nothing else that alone would keep the numbers down