HipHop Hasn't Done Anything Good For Black People
- Thread starter Goldie
- Start date
Doesn't matter or count unless the actors were saying their lines in rhyming form. Then the influence matters lol
loud-ninja
Here to point out the illogical
So it's OK for yall to add in new qualifiers to the topic suchs as "it takes away from kids being doctors and such" or "talk about slang for detrimental actions" and it is OK. I bring in a new topic comparing music/audio to imagery and I'm doing mental gymnastics. I thought convos evolve? Yall do it in almost every thread, including this one.
Opinions tried to be passed as fact until questions were asked but that is ok?
Using blanket statements but we get told "you know what he mean". Naw, we dont. Yall being Disingenuous about that. Yall would check someone for that too if it went against your argument.
I talked about other cultures and get called out for "what about-ism", which I admitted my fault , it's a bad thing. When yall do it by bringing in white people into an earlier convo, no one calls it out. Proof below.
Both sides said hip hop has much negativity that needs to be fixed. That was never not stated.
Yall funny. There was great arguments in the beginning of the thread. Both sides had points that could be backed up with facts. But then strawman arguments started being put to the table.
Opinions tried to be passed as fact until questions were asked but that is ok?
Using blanket statements but we get told "you know what he mean". Naw, we dont. Yall being Disingenuous about that. Yall would check someone for that too if it went against your argument.
I talked about other cultures and get called out for "what about-ism", which I admitted my fault , it's a bad thing. When yall do it by bringing in white people into an earlier convo, no one calls it out. Proof below.
Both sides said hip hop has much negativity that needs to be fixed. That was never not stated.
Yall funny. There was great arguments in the beginning of the thread. Both sides had points that could be backed up with facts. But then strawman arguments started being put to the table.
SeaSnake
OG
Stiff
Legion of Trill
Bro people defending Hip-Hop brought up “other cultures” by like Page 2 in this thread. So that can of worms was opened early. And then once the can of worms is open and we expound into “other cultures” as a reference, it’s “why you bringing up other cultures?”
Stiff
Legion of Trill
Also y’all are admitting the imagery you saw in film and the imagery from TV was influential on y’all on a personal level and influential on society as a whole while simultaneously downplaying the influence of imagery from rap videos with the songs that accompany.
Uncanny mental gymnastics.
Uncanny mental gymnastics.
loud-ninja
Here to point out the illogical
Not at all. Imagery in hip hop is Detrimental. I said that and didn't down play it. Not sure why you are saying that. Now, maybe I'm getting @Dwayne point confused. I'm thinking he is just talking bout the music aspect of it. The audio and words. The imagery with the audio is what hurts the most. If you take out the imagery, the influence will lose a lot of power but not all. All I asked is what is more devastating.
Imagery can spread a lot further then words and beats. You can tell a story with just pictures regardless of what language you speak. You can tell a story with instrumentals but it won't have the same impact. If a person doesn't speak the language, not really gonna know what those words mean.
That's why I said imagery and audio goes hand and hand in my initial post. Many people can read about slavery but watching it in a movie is gonna have a different and more powerful impact. Actually seeing someone get killed and beat as oppose to hearing about it just has a different impact.
Stiff
Legion of Trill
Very few people listen to their favorite song and haven’t seen the video for it, or don’t watch the videos of their favorite artists or follow them on social media. In 2024 the imagery is inseparable from the music.
Also I would say the negative aspects have been downplayed in this discussion. For one, they have hardly been acknowledged (if at all) by your side of the debate.
The most acknowledgement done is something along the lines of “nobody is saying there aren’t negative aspects”. But there’s been a refusal of the Hip-Hop Johnnie Cochrans in here to be specific and engage in a substantive discussion about those negative aspects and their effects.
Instead the entire defense has been
strawmans- misrepresenting a critique on Hip-Hop to be stating that Hip-Hop is the primary blame for all or most of the Black community’s ills.
Whataboutisms- Distracting from Hip-Hop’s negativities by bringing up the negative effects of other media (ie. film, television, and video games)
Pooh-Poohing - dismissing criticism of Hip-Hop to be unworthy of serious consideration or discussion and proceeding to ridicule it.
loud-ninja
Here to point out the illogical
Ok, I understand that. That's why I ask for clarity if I may be missing the mark. Instead, I get a bunch of "you know what he means " post from people. Or indirect post.
I wouldn't play certain artist for kids. Most definitely. Lots of Hip hop has encouraged drug use. Has given some women false ideas of their bodies. Lots of Hip hop does promote harm to others. Now what? If we remove hip hop culture, i wonder how big of a change that will make black folks lives.
The "down playing " part I feel is incorrect. I think this is where the miscommunication comes from. Lots of blanket statements are being made so people correct it. Why is it hard to be clear in one's message? Just take accountability and say " what I mean to say" or something comparable if your intent is being lost.
I really wasn't gonna jump in cause I agree with both sides. Only reason I jumped in was that school comment way back. No need to bring it back.
Everything else stated, I saw on both sides. But I enjoyed the debate thus far.
"That’s peace" as the people say
Are the blanket statements and made up opionion based facts cool with you too? Because you seem to be ok with them cuz they're in agreement with your overall point even though hurt your argument. Can't keep saying nobody is saying something when it's been acknowledged multiple times.
Even from those who are on the end of hip hop not being this big bad evil there's acknowledgement of the negative aspects of it. What hasn't been seen from your side is any acknowledgement that some are blatantly lying and making shit up base on their own feelings. Or that there may actually be something positive people can take from hip hop. Instead it's just been paragraphs on how somehow Black kids are dumber and without hip hop there'd be more Black billionaires.
This thread is basically one side wants an actual discussion while one just wants agreement
Stiff
Legion of Trill
I don’t understand this entire paragraph.
What made up opinion based facts?
And where have you specifically acknowledged the negative aspects of Hip-Hop beyond “nobody is saying there aren’t negative aspects”? What specific “negative aspects” have you or anybody on your side acknowledged prior to @loud-ninja ‘s post?
Freeman
Get well soon 🦉🇨🇦
Iirc they acknowledge it's negative aspects they just don't think it influences anything even though they believe things seen on film, and television do influence people. And what about other music genres? What about video games? What about what white, Chinese, Spanish cultures are doing? What about their communities?
Did I miss anything?
Stiff
Legion of Trill
They won’t get into the specifics of the “negative aspects” tho. They’ll just use the words “negative aspects”. I asked them to describe the values of hip-hop culture and was told “education”
.
It's been acknowledged plenty in this thread and plenty others on this same topic that there's certain themes and topics that aren't the best for children to be exposed to or shit even some adults for that matter. Violence, drug use, disrespect of others. There's plenty to offer criticism of. Where the difference lies though is those negative things aren't all some are saying hip hop is. And that those negative things found in hip hop can be found in anything you examine. So if you want to eliminate it then you're gonna need to change more than hip hop culture.
The made up opinion based facts are from those speaking in absolutes and continuing to try and die on the hill of it being their pov or nothing else. Hence why there was a discussion on nuance earlier in the thread and some of yall trying to deny it's existence and importance.
This is what I mean by making shit up.
Apparently this doesn't matter unless you also condemn all of hip hop to being nothing more than this.