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HipHop Hasn't Done Anything Good For Black People

Gray Matter said:
If you are going to try to defend hip hop, you can't merely point to certain benefits and think, "Case closed." You have to weigh the benefits against the costs. This shouldn't have to be said.

In my opinion, the benefits that hip hop has brought pales in comparison to the costs.

The primary costs directly concern education, and more indirectly, all the benefits that flow from a more educated black population.

Hip hop has depressed black academic achievement, and it has done this mainly by making kids give less then their full effort into their education.

There would be more black doctors, engineers, scientists and businesspeople but for hip hop.

More black businesspeople, for example, could have lead to a black Elton Musk, or a black Bill Gates.

Do you know much good even one black multibillionaire like that can do?

And that's just education. There are a lot of other costs associated with increased crime.
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The kids that give "less then their full effort into their Education " are usually the ones that come from terrible schools. Schools where they are understaffed , don't have money, teachers that dont give a fuck, gangs in school, lack of resources, etc. Entertainment and sports are a way out for most in those types of environments.

If you look at the schools in the states with money and resources, they have many that do go on to those careers you stated. That is because the kids are pushed or motivated to do those things.
 
loud-ninja said:
The kids that give "less then their full effort into their Education " are usually the ones that come from terrible schools. Schools where they are understaffed , don't have money, teachers that dont give a fuck, gangs in school, lack of resources, etc. Entertainment and sports are a way out for most in those types of environments.

If you look at the schools in the states with money and resources, they have many that do go on to those careers you stated. That is because the kids are pushed or motivated to do those things.
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Nah this is a myth. Public schools in majority Black middle class areas underperform white middle class areas. Numerous studies have been done on this, one of the most prominent being done by Dr. John Ogbu, the results of which were published in his book Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb.

Also, look up the Kansas City School District experiment that took place in the 90s. Over a billion dollars were pumped into Black schools, teachers were given raises etc. No notable increase in school performance.

If the kids subscribe to a culture that doesn’t value academic achievement(is. Hip-Hop) it doesn’t matter how much resources you give the school.
 
BlackRain said:
No that's not the argument being made
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You may not have, but this is definitely that argument:

Inori said:
no matter how you try to spin it... there are those that will use and participate with alcohol, food, film, adult entertaiment hip hop responsibly... and those who will abuse it and use it irresponsibly to their own detriment.. which can be applied to any and every fuckin thing on the planet
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Gray Matter said:
If you are going to try to defend hip hop, you can't merely point to certain benefits and think, "Case closed." You have to weigh the benefits against the costs. This shouldn't have to be said.

In my opinion, the benefits that hip hop has brought pales in comparison to the costs.

The primary costs directly concern education, and more indirectly, all the benefits that flow from a more educated black population.

Hip hop has depressed black academic achievement, and it has done this mainly by making kids give less then their full effort into their education.

There would be more black doctors, engineers, scientists and businesspeople but for hip hop.

More black businesspeople, for example, could have lead to a black Elton Musk, or a black Bill Gates.

Do you know much good even one black multibillionaire like that can do?

And that's just education. There are a lot of other costs associated with increased crime.
Click to expand...

How does hip hop affect a lack of Black doctors, lawyers etc. If you're talking business people then there's been a ton of business people who've seen success because of hip hop. If you're talking the desire to use music as a vehicle to money then you're beef is with the entertainment industry overall because that desire existed long before rap music.
 
BlackRain said:
How does hip hop affect a lack of Black doctors, lawyers etc. If you're talking business people then there's been a ton of business people who've seen success because of hip hop. If you're talking the desire to use music as a vehicle to money then you're beef is with the entertainment industry overall because that desire existed long before rap music.
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What are the cultural values/norms of Hip-Hop culture?
 
Stiff said:
Nah this is a myth. Public schools in majority Black middle class areas underperform white middle class areas. Numerous studies have been done on this, one of the most prominent being done by Dr. John Ogbu, the results of which were published in his book Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb.

Also, look up the Kansas City School District experiment that took place in the 90s. Over a billion dollars were pumped into Black schools, teachers were given raises etc. No notable increase in school performance.

If the kids subscribe to a culture that doesn’t value academic achievement(is. Hip-Hop) it doesn’t matter how much resources you give the school.
Click to expand...

Schools in Black neighborhoods were underfunded long before hip hop existed. The problems of the education system and lack of drive from some kids isn't the fault of rappers. It's a fault of parenting, school systems, and decisions being made outside of a kids control that affect the level of education they receive. The culture of hip hop pushes an entrepreneur mindship...and that requires education to pull off.
 
Stiff said:
Nah this is a myth. Public schools in majority Black middle class areas underperform white middle class areas. Numerous studies have been done on this, one of the most prominent being done by Dr. John Ogbu, the results of which were published in his book Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb.

Also, look up the Kansas City School District experiment that took place in the 90s. Over a billion dollars were pumped into Black schools, teachers were given raises etc. No notable increase in school performance.

If the kids subscribe to a culture that doesn’t value academic achievement(is. Hip-Hop) it doesn’t matter how much resources you give the school.
Click to expand...
How is it a myth when it is a reality for some?

If I'm put in an environment where adults don't care. Claim I'm gonna be dead or in jail before 20, no computers, books are old, I'm not learning because the staff is burned out, why would I want to continue with education? I'm just gonna want to skip school
 
loud-ninja said:
How is it a myth when it is a reality for some?

If I'm put in an environment where adults don't care. Claim I'm gonna be dead or in jail before 20, no computers, books are old, I'm not learning because the staff is burned out, why would I want to continue with education? I'm just gonna want to skip school
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This is great, now address my point. Why do Black schools in middle class Black neighborhoods underperform white schools of similar means?
 
BlackRain said:
Schools in Black neighborhoods were underfunded long before hip hop existed. The problems of the education system and lack of drive from some kids isn't the fault of rappers. It's a fault of parenting, school systems, and decisions being made outside of a kids control that affect the level of education they receive. The culture of hip hop pushes an entrepreneur mindship...and that requires education to pull off.
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Under funded schools is definitely not the fault of hip hop. But if I show you Black schools that underperform white schools with the same amount of resources, you can’t blame “funding”.

What else does the culture of hip hop push besides “entrepreneur mindset”?
 
loud-ninja said:
The kids that give "less then their full effort into their Education " are usually the ones that come from terrible schools. Schools where they are understaffed , don't have money, teachers that dont give a fuck, gangs in school, lack of resources, etc. Entertainment and sports are a way out for most in those types of environments.

If you look at the schools in the states with money and resources, they have many that do go on to those careers you stated. That is because the kids are pushed or motivated to do those things.
Click to expand...

All of those things are important, but as Stiff pointed out, even middle class black kids often struggle academically. Ever heard of Shaker Heights, Ohio? In the 2000s it got a lot of attention because the black families there generally did well but their kids often didn't do well in school.
 
Stiff said:
Nah this is a myth. Public schools in majority Black middle class areas underperform white middle class areas. Numerous studies have been done on this, one of the most prominent being done by Dr. John Ogbu, the results of which were published in his book Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb.

Also, look up the Kansas City School District experiment that took place in the 90s. Over a billion dollars were pumped into Black schools, teachers were given raises etc. No notable increase in school performance.

If the kids subscribe to a culture that doesn’t value academic achievement(is. Hip-Hop) it doesn’t matter how much resources you give the school.
Click to expand...


You could better serve your argument by showing how his and these other studies correlate with hip hop.


Because the only thing it seems like this gets across is “niggas are dumb”.
 
BlackRain said:
How does hip hop affect a lack of Black doctors, lawyers etc. If you're talking business people then there's been a ton of business people who've seen success because of hip hop. If you're talking the desire to use music as a vehicle to money then you're beef is with the entertainment industry overall because that desire existed long before rap music.
Click to expand...
You still don't get it.

There are black business people who have had some success because of hip hop. I am not denying that at all.

What I am saying is that you have to compare the business people we have because of hip hop and the business people we have evidence to believe we would have had but for hip hop.
 
Inglewood_B said:
You could better serve your argument by showing how his and these other studies correlate with hip hop.


Because the only thing it seems like this gets across is “niggas are dumb”.
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Hip-Hop culture is the predominant culture of Black youth…I need to drop a study to prove that?
 
Also, why do Carribean and African immigrants to America attend the same underfunded schools as Black Americans and consistently outperform the Black Americans?
 
Stiff said:
Hip-Hop culture is the predominant culture of Black youth…I need to drop a study to prove that?
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Explain how hip hop culture translates to “stay outta school, kids!”

Then explain how the millions of black kids who did well, went to college, got an education but also listen to hip hop or identify themselves as part of the culture were immune to this supposed curse
 
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Stiff said:
Also, why do Carribean and African immigrants to America attend the same underfunded schools as Black Americans and consistently outperform the Black Americans?
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You got the answers so break it down… just laying it at the feet of hip hop without the how or why is as intellectually lazy as you are claiming our black youth are.

So lay it out there. Time for you niggas making assertions to show and prove.
 
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