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Video: police allegedly left a “bait truck” filled with Nike shoes in a black Chicago neighborhood

If what I’m saying is looking like trolling then imagine what your thoughts look like? Let that sink in...

lol I'm not saying that you're trolling because you're trying to turn my reasoning back on me to show the error in what I'm saying. That's a valid way of arguing. I'm saying you're trolling because in this instance flipping my words in that way makes no sense. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not an idiot and that you see when you flip what I'm saying in that way that the statements made are just factually wrong. So if you're pushing incorrect statements just to prolong the argument, you're trolling. That's not at all what I'm doing.
 
No, finding money on the ground is not stealing. Are ya'll really making this point? Look, the legal definition of theft is:



Money that's just laying there on public property with no claimant cannot by definition be stolen. And once again, two different things are being argued here. Whether the cops are right to do this and whether the truck is the same as just randomly finding money. Everyone agrees that the cops are wrong. The only point of contention here is that for some reason some people think that randomly finding something on the ground is the same as violating a person's vehicle and taking the contents inside.
Shoes that’s just laying there on public property with no claimant cannot by definition be stolen.
 
lol I'm not saying that you're trolling because you're trying to turn my reasoning back on me to show the error in what I'm saying. That's a valid way of arguing. I'm saying you're trolling because in this instance flipping my words in that way makes no sense. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not an idiot and that you see when you flip what I'm saying in that way that the statements made are just factually wrong. So if you're pushing incorrect statements just to prolong the argument, you're trolling. That's not at all what I'm doing.
Before going further what is the point you’re trying to make because this seems like a hill you’re willing to die on.
 
Shoes that’s just laying there on public property with no claimant cannot by definition be stolen.

Correct. If you find a box of shoes, on the ground and have no way of know who the owner is or if they even have an owner, you couldn't be charged for theft if you took them. That's not what's happening here. A vehicle is not public property, so taking a box of shoes out of a vehicle is not the same as picking them up off the ground. What is so hard to understand about that?

Before going further what is the point you’re trying to make because this seems like a hill you’re willing to die on.

I've already made the point several times. You niggas are just so caught up on trying to defend this dumbass comparison, that you're ignoring the point. But one more time.

Everyone who says the cops are in the wrong for this is right. This about a hair's breadth away from extortion and its definitely racist in its execution.

However, the cops likely won't be condemned for this and there probably won't be any kind of major push to stop shit like this because the only way this bait works is if people make the conscious decision to commit a crime.
 
Correct. If you find a box of shoes, on the ground and have no way of know who the owner is or if they even have an owner, you couldn't be charged for theft if you took them. That's not what's happening here. A vehicle is not public property, so taking a box of shoes out of a vehicle is not the same as picking them up off the ground. What is so hard to understand about that?
Correct, if you find a 100 dollars, on the ground and have no way of know who the owner is or if they even have an owner, you couldn’t be charged for theft if you took them. That’s not what’s happening here. A vehicle is not public property, so taking a 100 dollars out of a vehicle is not the same as picking them up off the ground. What is so hard to understand about that?
 
No, finding money on the ground is not stealing. Are ya'll really making this point? Look, the legal definition of theft is:



Money that's just laying there on public property with no claimant cannot by definition be stolen. And once again, two different things are being argued here. Whether the cops are right to do this and whether the truck is the same as just randomly finding money. Everyone agrees that the cops are wrong. The only point of contention here is that for some reason some people think that randomly finding something on the ground is the same as violating a person's vehicle and taking the contents inside.


Aight, you got it bruh


all those niggers are criminals smh
 
Correct, if you find a 100 dollars, on the ground and have no way of know who the owner is or if they even have an owner, you couldn’t be charged for theft if you took them. That’s not what’s happening here. A vehicle is not public property, so taking a 100 dollars out of a vehicle is not the same as picking them up off the ground. What is so hard to understand about that?

See, this is why you should stop this strategy, you're trying to pull off. In this case, you only succeeded in making the exact same point that I made. This doesn't support what you're arguing at all.

Aight, you got it bruh


all those niggers are criminals smh

Serious questions. The ethics of what the police did aside. Are you saying that taking something out of someone else's vehicle without their permission is not a criminal act? Do you believe that being a poor person nullifies wrongdoing under those circumstances?
 
See, this is why you should stop this strategy, you're trying to pull off. In this case, you only succeeded in making the exact same point that I made. This doesn't support what you're arguing at all.
There is a difference between taking money off the ground as opposed to taking it out of a vehicle. There’s a literal difference...
 
The way you're wording it makes it seem like they were goin around the neighborhood breakin into cars


presumably, Nike or footlocker would take the hit


for whatever circumstances lil homie hasn't had the opportunity to get a new pair of sneakers in over a yr, sees a truck from the factory broke down & unattended. Figures he could get a pair & a few to flip to put sum change in his pocket


I won't totally condemn as I've said
 
True, no argument. Again, I wasn't saying this shit wasn't wrong. I was saying that this revelation won't amount to much because a lot of people, particularly those in power that could change shit like this, will just look at it as being no threat to anyone who isn't already a criminal. This isn't all that different than a sting operation. The only problem is as you say, we know they are targeting minorities specifically.

This is actually the textbook definition of playing devil's advocate.
 
There is a difference between taking money off the ground as opposed to taking it out of a vehicle. There’s a literal difference...
Yes, there is also a legal difference. For those reasons, comparing taking money off the ground to take shoes out of a vehicle is dumb. That's been my stance this whole time. You are then one arguing otherwise.

This is actually the textbook definition of playing devil's advocate.

No it's not. When you play Devil's Advocate you're arguing for why one side might be justified even though it seems wrong. I'm not doing that. The cops are just plain wrong. I'm explaining why even though they may be wrong, their actions might not be treated as such.
 
so niggas can steal a whole lands and continents but niggas cant take a pair of sneakers?

aint this a bitch.

who woulda thought
 
Yes, there is also a legal difference. For those reasons, comparing taking money off the ground to take shoes out of a vehicle is dumb. That's been my stance this whole time. You are then one arguing otherwise.



No it's not. When you play Devil's Advocate you're arguing for why one side might be justified even though it seems wrong. I'm not doing that. The cops are just plain wrong. I'm explaining why even though they may be wrong, their actions might not be treated as such.
It’s only illegal if you get caught...
 
so niggas can steal a whole lands and continents but niggas cant take a pair of sneakers?

aint this a bitch.

who woulda thought

oh wait....

they made the rules after they took what they needed

giphy.gif
 
It's a foul plan.......but lol @ seeing a truck filled with $1000's of dollars in shoes, parked randomly in a low income neighborhood and not thinking set up. Tried that shit on Bait Car, dudes was walking up like "naw that's from that show". Spidey senses gotta kick in at sok me point
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/us/chicago-bait-truck.html

A Truckload of Nike Shoes, Left as ‘Bait,’ Stings Chicago

CHICAGO — Even in a city rife with distrust of law enforcement, residents were shocked by the sting operation: A tractor-trailer filled with Nike sneakers parked in an impoverished neighborhood on the South Side.

The “bait truck” was left there earlier this month to lure would-be thieves into a trap, the authorities said. Three men were arrested on charges of stealing from the truck, prompting outrage in the community where faith in the police is already at a low point.

“Y’all are dirty,” one young man yelled at uniformed officers stationed near the truck in a video that spread quickly online. “You wouldn’t have did it in your neighborhood.”

The Chicago police, however, were playing a secondary role in the sting: “Operation Trailer Trap” was led by Norfolk Southern Railway, with officers from its own police unit, and was orchestrated on Aug. 2 and 3 after several thefts of parked and locked freight trucks and containers in the immediate area. After the tactic was roundly criticized, the railroad company apologized and promised not to do it again. Prosecutors dropped burglary charges against the men.

But the damage was done. The operation may not have been the Chicago Police Department’s idea, but it certainly bore the brunt of the backlash.

“You don’t bait people. You bait animals. Are you calling us animals?” Charles Mckenzie, an anti-violence activist who shot the video, said in an interview.

The failed operation comes at a tense time for Chicago, where 66 people were shot on a recent weekend, another 58 were shot last weekend, and a police officer is expected to go on trial next month in connection to the 2014 killing of a black teenager. The death of the teenager, Laquan McDonald, roiled the city and led to murder charges against the officer, Jason Van Dyke.

“The reason this struck such a nerve is that we are at such a low point of trust between the police and the black community,” said Karen Sheley, a director at the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois. “The city has promised again and again to reform the police department.”

More than two weeks after the bait truck was deployed in a neighborhood where nearly all of the residents are black, resentment lingers over the episode. In a rebuke to the police, community groups plan to give away hundreds of pairs of donated shoes in the neighborhood this weekend — an idea the Chicago rapper Vic Mensa is calling the “anti-bait truck.”

Mr. Mensa, a Grammy-nominated artist who grew up on the city’s South Side, said he came up with the plan because he wanted to find a way to invest in the neighborhood. The timing of the sting operation — during a period of summer violence — was disrespectful, he said.

“To see the police escort a bait truck full of shoes through a low-income neighborhood where people can’t afford basic necessities, it seemed very representative of how ill-equipped they are to deal with the city’s issues,” Mr. Mensa said in an interview.

The “bait truck” was left near 59th Place and Princeton Avenue in Englewood, a neighborhood where nearly 60 percent of the residents earn less than $25,000, according to 2015 census data. It is also among the most crime-ridden, though last year it recorded fewer shootings and other violence than in past years.

The Chicago police referred questions to Norfolk Southern, which said the action was in response to cargo thefts that had included guns and ammunition. Earlier this month, the Chicago police superintendent, Eddie Johnson, said he would take a “hard look” at the episode, but defended the motives behind it.

“They had been experiencing a lot of theft of firearms over there, so we have a responsibility to keep these firearms off the street and out of the hands of the wrong people,” Superintendent Johnson told reporters.

Still, some critics have questioned why the Chicago police were involved at all, and encouraged the department to take responsibility, even if it only assisted with the arrests.

“If you plan on doing a murder and I come with you to drive the getaway car, I’ll go to prison too,” Mr. Mensa said. “Whether or not the initiative was an idea generated by the police, they’re an accomplice.”

Initial reports said the police left the cargo truck open and that teenagers were targeted, but railroad officials said it was locked and the men who were arrested were between the ages of 21 and 59.

“The suspects saw a parked, unmarked trailer and then proceeded to cut open the safety seal and broke into the back of the trailer and only then did they find retail shoes in unmarked brown boxes, previously secured and hidden inside,” said Susan Terpay, a spokeswoman for Norfolk Southern.

The railroad also provided video of the thefts, which shows several men inside the truck grabbing large brown boxes. Still, railroad officials apologized in a letter published in The Chicago Tribune.

“Norfolk Southern recognizes that, despite the need to safeguard freight in the area, this operation eroded trust between law enforcement and the community,” the letter said. “We sincerely regret that our actions caused further unease, and we don’t plan to use this method in the future.”

The idea of using expensive items to entice would-be thieves is not a new idea. In San Francisco, the police have used high-end “bait bikes” to make arrests. And a reality television show called “Bait Car” on truTV captured vehicle thefts.

A spokesman for Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who has received a barrage of criticism over his response to the city’s violence as he runs for re-election early next year, said in a statement that improving trust between police officers and residents had been a key part of reducing violence in the city.

“We believe Norfolk Southern made the right decision in eliminating this misguided practice,” the spokesman, Matt McGrath, said.
 
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