The Official World Politics Thread

[ChicagoFigure]

I think the biggest hindrance to everything @Peace_79 is talking about is the inherent greed of people... so long as that is around it will always play the obstacle to this idea of dropping capitalism at least here in America

That's the biggest hindrance in any form of government though. Anything can look good on paper but the human element of greed always slants shit sideways.

And I'm not picking any side of the argument here I think both sides are making real good points n prefer this shit go a few more pages

 

[Focal Point]

That's the biggest hindrance in any form of government though. Anything can look good on paper but the human element of greed always slants shit sideways.

And I'm not picking any side of the argument here I think both sides are making real good points n prefer this shit go a few more pages

I wholeheartedly agree I just think that the system that he would want in this country would require an internal change universally, almost scout's honor

And to add ego would need to be eradicated...

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

I wholeheartedly agree I just think that the system that he would want in this country would require an internal change universally, almost scout's honor

And to add ego would need to be eradicated...

Greed wouldn't be a problem if politicians didn't want it to be. That goes for both sides.

There's plenty they could do to remove the element of greed from politics. Make it so they can't vote or propose policies in any sector they or their family has any interest in.

Get rid of dark money. License politicians like doctors or lawyers. Make it illegal to lie or mislead, as it is with doctors and lawyers (who can't legally give bad advice intentionally*).

There's nuff that could happen but no politician is gonna wanna change the system that got them there.

This why Bernie was so important.

 

[Peace_79]

I wholeheartedly agree I just think that the system that he would want in this country would require an internal change universally, almost scout's honor

And to add ego would need to be eradicated...

Ehh ... I disagree.

Your argument is overly simplistic and a-historical.

There have been plenty of societies in which greed was not the driving force - instead they thrived on cooperation; some on unity and compassion for the most vulnerable.

I believe your implication is that American capitalism has always been driven by greed. But that is because of the structure of our economy and framing of our culture.

These things aren’t immutable laws of nature. They are derived from the narrative we tell ourselves and the governing principles we create.

We can change that. The question is whether enough people want to actually do so.

 

[Focal Point]

That goes back to what he's saying tho. You cant control human nature and there will inevitably be those who are more ambitious or greedy who will put themselves ahead of everyone else. You also cant stop economic downturns from occuring, there will always be moments in any economy when things will go bad either because of something simply not working, an adverse change in the climate, innovation or whatever.

That's really all I was trying to say, in every society throughout history there has always been somebody/ies who want/s a little more than others.

And most governments have learned from the French Revolution, and will never allow those of the lower class or poor to rise up again like that, shit they're (governments i.e. humans i.e. those with wealth) still running the same tricks all day long and play upon human nature... greed, fear, insecurities, and the need to feel above others using racism, nationalism, and opportunism (someone of the lower class making it, to keep those who made it in check or inspired to make it, as well as taking advantage of ignorance whether its willful or not) which helps push capitalism.

 

[Focal Point]

Greed wouldn't be a problem if politicians didn't want it to be. That goes for both sides.

There's plenty they could do to remove the element of greed from politics. Make it so they can't vote or propose policies in any sector they or their family has any interest in.

Get rid of dark money. License politicians like doctors or lawyers. Make it illegal to lie or mislead, as it is with doctors and lawyers (who can't legally give bad advice intentionally*).

There's nuff that could happen but no politician is gonna wanna change the system that got them there.

This why Bernie was so important.

But inherently that leads back to human nature and the greed, they're going to do everything they (those with wealth and power) can to protect the system that they're profiting in. You would have to change the mindset of everyone and there are always loopholes anybody who is black understand how to figure out loopholes and make shit work for them so who is surprised that those who are higher up know how to make it work for them.

I'm not trying to make this "woe is me" and we can't do anything, but this is something that has to start off at all levels. Homes, neighborhoods, communities, local political offices and on up

Bernie can't be a change alone because even as president there's always only so much you're able to do. You get a Republican Senate and House or even just the Senate then you have a roadblock constantly. We've seen that show before. We have laws against insider trading especially in politics and jokers still pull stunts

 

[Focal Point]

Again I'm not going against the need for change, but human nature plays a part otherwise the version of communism or socialism we see would not exist and the way it was intended would.

That's why I stressed the importance of everything local and expand out.

Of course that is not where we're at right now and drastic changes are needed in the federal government. Senate gotta look different, the courts gotta look different, etc

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

But inherently that leads back to human nature and the greed, they're going to do everything they (those with wealth and power) can to protect the system that they're profiting in. You would have to change the mindset of everyone and there are always loopholes anybody who is black understand how to figure out loopholes and make shit work for them so who is surprised that those who are higher up know how to make it work for them.

I'm not trying to make this "woe is me" and we can't do anything, but this is something that has to start off at all levels. Homes, neighborhoods, communities, local political offices and on up

Bernie can't be a change alone because even as president there's always only so much you're able to do. You get a Republican Senate and House or even just the Senate then you have a roadblock constantly. We've seen that show before. We have laws against insider trading especially in politics and jokers still pull stunts

No, human nature has nothin' to do with it. There have been, and are currently, cultures that are way more egalitarian than the US is.

Yes there are always people who will try to steal seconds but, again, that's what laws are for.

Loopholes are put there on purpose. Sendin' your money to tax havens wasn't always an option. The past 40 years got people thinkin' uber capitalism is in the blood imo

 

[Peace_79]

That's really all I was trying to say, in every society throughout history there has always been somebody/ies who want/s a little more than others.

And most governments have learned from the French Revolution, and will never allow those of the lower class or poor to rise up again like that, shit they're (governments i.e. humans i.e. those with wealth) still running the same tricks all day long and play upon human nature... greed, fear, insecurities, and the need to feel above others using racism, nationalism, and opportunism (someone of the lower class making it, to keep those who made it in check or inspired to make it, as well as taking advantage of ignorance whether its willful or not) which helps push capitalism.

“Somebody wanting a little bit more”

Does not equal

“Oligarchic society with extreme pain and suffering”


You cannot use one as causation of the other.

 

[Focal Point]

No, human nature has nothin' to do with it. There have been, and are currently, cultures that are way more egalitarian than the US is.

Yes there are always people who will try to steal seconds but, again, that's what laws are for.

Loopholes are put there on purpose. Sendin' your money to tax havens wasn't always an option. The past 40 years got people thinkin' uber capitalism is in the blood imo

So is it not human nature to try to get over or be greedy or be on top? And I agree we do have laws but in some aspect how often are those that will find a way to break them, especially those in power

 

[Focal Point]

“Somebody wanting a little bit more”

Does not equal

“Oligarchic society with extreme pain and suffering”


You cannot use one as causation of the other.

Well I do use one for the other because that's how it starts off, you steal a little bread here then maybe you still some fruit with it next time and it climbs if you continue to get away with it. I mean shoot look at all wealth that politicians get through speaking engagements and loopholes and looking out for the more important individuals with influence.

Even with all the political laws we have those who have more influence and power push the way things go no matter what the little people say

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

You contradicted yourself here. Human nature has everything to do with why someone would steal seconds regardless of laws. The upstanding model citizen should pay as much taxes as possible but lets be honest there will be people worse or better off who will seek to find a way to keep more for themselves either because they have their own agenda or disagree with how something is done. You'll never find anyone who will agree with 100% of how something is done or even said no matter how "good" they claim to be.

You can change political ideologies all day and night but it ultimately has to start within and the truth is there are good and bad people and that's the basis of human nature. We make laws and hope people do right by others. In a perfect world everyone bides by the rules and there's no crime, poverty or injustice.

No there's no contradiction. The current condition of the US is due to policy, not greed.

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

So is it not human nature to try to get over or be greedy or be on top? And I agree we do have laws but in some aspect how often are those that will find a way to break them, especially those in power

Poor people are greedy too bro I wish I could dogde taxes even with all my shit talk, but its difficult and if they catch me it's on. The opportunity for us to dodge tax and shit just isn't there like it is for them

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

Soooo human nature and greed have nothing to do with billionaires trying to destroy competition or innovation? Human nature has nothing to do with creating policy and laws to govern a nation if 300+ million people ? Alright man you got it b.



I could show you a thing or two about taxes and investment vehicles you can take advantage of to retain as much of your earnings as possible....

Smh bro you're bein' silly. Every human being in history has been a human. There have always been and currently exist countries with government not run by individual greed like the US. Not only is it not true to say that people always go for as much as they possibly can despite the needs of others, it wouldn't matter either way because laws control behaviour.

It does not matter that people are greedy, it matters that they kno' they can get away with it.

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

@Sion lol bro to be honest I could prolly dodge tax mad easy since I'm a contractor but the ting is I'm not one for administration so I don't do it. I still use an umbrella fam I don't even have a limited ting.

My money bredrins chastise me over it

 

[StringerBell]

 

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[AZTG]

I think we can all agree that billion dollar corporations in america are trash. They barely pay taxes, they barely give back, and they dont give a fuck about society in general. Most corporations will set flames to the whole country if it means they can make more profit, and in alot of cases they do.

The problem though is that the govt let corporations get too powerful since there almost no regulations put on them, and they are allowed to pay almost no taxes. This puts the country in a position where if these corporations were all allowed to fail at the same time, they will bring our way of living down with them.

Thats why we have to bail them out. Too big too fail is a thing.

The focus shouldnt be on should these companies be bailed out NOW, the focus should be on putting regulations on business and putting in laws that put america before any business. These rules and regulations will take a decade or two to finally put the US in a position where we can let corporations fail without worrying bout irreversible damage.

So the discussion shouldnt be 'should these corps get bailed out' cause the answer is yes, the dicussion shoild be 'why do these corps need to get bailed out', cause once understand the facts being why they need to be bailed out this time around, we can come up with a system where the reasons behind a need for a bailout dont exist anymore, and hopefully, when the next crash happens, we can let them mfers fail and be replaced.

 

[Peace_79]

Well I do use one for the other because that's how it starts off, you steal a little bread here then maybe you still some fruit with it next time and it climbs if you continue to get away with it. I mean shoot look at all wealth that politicians get through speaking engagements and loopholes and looking out for the more important individuals with influence.

Even with all the political laws we have those who have more influence and power push the way things go no matter what the little people say

“Even with the political laws...”

Our Political laws are weak as shit, fam.

You misunderstand. Corruption has not happened in spite of them, it has happened BECAUSE of them and the people who designed them.

Our laws can be redesigned. Our political system can be tweaked.

Of course we won’t live in a Utopia - but there is a shit ton of distance on the spectrum between what we have now and a utopia. Your argument basically amounts to “nothing can be done and our level of fucked up cannot be changed at all .... because people are bad”

It’s just categorically false - when you look at the systematic atrocities committed throughout human history and how they have ceased or been drastically mitigated with organized legislation against them.


You are in essence stripping all power from the government and political apparatus to effect any positive change, whatsoever.

It is overly reductive and simply a-historical.