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Peace_79 said:
There has never been a revolution that completely wipes out systemic racism or reigns in the greed of capitalism.

But I would say the rights of marginalized groups have been significantly advanced since the 1700s... to say the least.

That status quo now, has evolved from the status quo then.
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Fair point, good post and oh yeah...














It's rein, not reign














the Hall is watching
 
Rubato said:
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Wouldn't surprise me if he picks one of his children or Nikki Haley

He already did what the Christian right wing wanted to do by packing the courts with judges whose beliefs line up with the right wing so now he really has no need for Pence

In his mind he is thinking he can resign immediately if he is reelected and his VP would protect him from the FBI, IRS, Congress and others.......one of his children can do that but Pence won't
 
DMorgan said:
No america is not and it has NEVER in it's history shown that it is better than that.
This country is the epitome of actions speak louder than words.

Eliminating corporate money ain't going to happen because democrats benefit from that side of the game just as much as republicans do.
Democrats haven't shown me any reason to believe your first caveat.

Democrats give crumbs because they want to maintain white supremacy just as much as republicans do they just feel like it doesn't have to be done in as much as a harsh manner as republicans do.

It would make more sense to actually destroy the system seeing as though you recognize that both parties are corrupt.

Progressives have some nice ideas but I ain't sold on their shit either.
You seem to believe in the words that america has written down on paper about what it stands for. I don't believe in none of that shit. People seem to think in this country that the political, financial and judicial systems are broken. When in fact those systems are working just as they've been designed to work and the people who come from those who designed it are extremely happy with the way its working.
I'm not for continuing to try to integrate ourselves into this fucked up shit. That shit ain't going to work. IMO either destroy the system or shit is just going to continue to stay the same with very little real changes to truly help people coming from it.
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Yeah ... Thats a pretty broad brush you are carrying.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that you haven’t thought about this too many chess moves ahead of your opening gambit.

For one - the data shows that the majority of the country is sane and supports a progressive agenda, which by the way includes rights, economic justice and protections for black people and other minorities.

Second, the population of older white people and white people in general is declining in this country. In a few decades they will no longer be the majority. So by attrition, the stronghold of white supremacy is already loosening - and that doesn’t even count legislative and structural change that we have the power to usher in.

We can’t plan ahead by only looking backwards. That doesn’t work well for a two year old, nor does it work well for the largest country on earth.

What does the future hold?


Third, it sounds like part of your argument was trying to convince me that this country is based on white supremacy.

I wouldn’t waste your time. That right there is a given.

But let’s not conflate the racism of the founding fathers; the tacit and overt racism of the majority of this country, and the systemic racism embedded in certain laws; with the entire framework of the US Constitution itself; a document that has helped create one of the most successful countries in the history of the world - by many measures.

Sure - by many measures it’s also a pretty terrible country. But let’s not ignore the good in order to highlight the bad. It’s intellectually dishonest.

You talk as though the current state of America was planned from the beginning. That’s not true. The founding fathers didn’t even want political parties or factions - and a great deal of the constitution is meant to combat that type of divisiveness with separation of powers and appropriate checks and balances. The rampant country is an advent of the 21st Century, and the very meaning of a corporation has been wildly prevented over the centuries. Corporations used to have a fiduciary responsibility to sever the people of their community. Now there only legal repsonsibiloty is to the pockets of their shareholders.

You say it’s impossible to even do something as simple as getting money out of politics ... yet you want to obliterate the entire system.

How would you even go about doing that?
Serious question. It would probably take a century to even make meaningful progress with such an endeavor ...

If you are completely “destroying the political, financial, and judicial systems”?

What are you replacing them with?

  • What’s the blueprint of an economic system better than capitalism?

I’d love to hear your answer to this ...



  • What is an alternative framework for our judicial system?

It is literally regarded is one of the greatest governmental constructs in history.

Don’t believe me? Head over to North Korea and try to stage a protest...


Imagine our political system without the corruption of money and without the hyper partisanship that has evolved over the last few decades.

Find me a viable alternative to that.

Do you want a monarchy, or an autocracy? Something invented out of whole cloth?

What’s your actual strategy besides saying that America is bad?



This country was built on racism, cruelty, and numerous atrocities. If that’s unacceptable to you, you will have to travel and find a country that doesn’t have a similar history.

Good luck to you.


But if you want to live here, IMO The most effective approach is working to overhaul the entire system so that it works for everyone - strive to keep the good and eliminate as much of the bad as you can.

Nihilism and Anarchy always sounds great and feels good because we get to place all the blame on others.

That is until you think about the feasibility of that approach or what actually happens once you destroy every single structure that defines your way of life.
 
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Peace_79 said:
Yeah ... Thats a pretty broad brush you are carrying.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that you haven’t thought about this too many chess moves ahead of your opening gambit.

For one - the data shows that the majority of the country is sane and supports a progressive agenda, which by the way includes rights, economic justice and protections for black people and other minorities.

Second, the population of older white people and white people in general is declining in this country. In a few decades they will no longer be the majority. So by attrition, the stronghold of white supremacy is already loosening - and that doesn’t even count legislative and structural change that we have the power to usher in.

We can’t plan ahead by only looking backwards. That doesn’t work well for a two year old, nor does it work well for the largest country on earth.

What does the future hold?


Third, it sounds like part of your argument was trying to convince me that this country is based on white supremacy.

I wouldn’t waste your time. That right there is a given.

But let’s not conflate the racism of the founding fathers; the tacit and overt racism of the majority of this country, and the systemic racism embedded in certain laws; with the entire framework of the US Constitution itself; a document that has helped create one of the most successful countries in the history of the world - by many measures.

Sure - by many measures it’s also a pretty terrible country. But let’s not ignore the good in order to highlight the bad. It’s intellectually dishonest.

You talk as though the current state of America was planned from the beginning. That’s not true. The founding fathers didn’t even want political parties or factions - and a great deal of the constitution is meant to combat that type of divisiveness with separation of powers and appropriate checks and balances.

You say it’s impossible to even do something as simple as getting money out of politics ... yet you want to obliterate the entire system.

How would you even go about doing that?
Serious question. It would probably take a century to even make meaningful progress with such an endeavor ...

If you are completely “destroying the political, financial, and judicial systems”?

What are you replacing them with?

  • What’s the blueprint of an economic system better than capitalism?

I’d love to hear your answer to this ...



  • What is an alternative framework for our judicial system?

It is literally regarded is one of the greatest governmental constructs in history.

Don’t believe me? Head over to North Korea and try to stage a protest...


Imagine our political system without the corruption of money and without the hyper partisanship that has evolved over the last few decades.

Find me a viable alternative to that.

Do you want a monarchy, or an autocracy? Something invented out of whole cloth?

What’s your actual strategy besides saying that America is bad?



This country was built on racism, cruelty, and numerous atrocities. If that’s unacceptable to you, you will have to travel and find a country that doesn’t have a similar history.

Good luck to you.


But if you want to live here, IMO The most effective approach is working to overhaul the entire system so that it works for everyone - strive to keep the good and eliminate as much of the bad as you can.

Nihilism and Anarchy always sounds great and feels good because we get to place all the blame on others.

That is until you think about the feasibility of that approach or what actually happens once you destroy every single structure that defines your way of life.
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Look I'm not about to read all that.

We see this country differently and although we may have the same goalsl for black people. Our views on what we need to do in order to accomplish those goals are totally different.

So I'll leave this convo with this.

May we see each other healthy and happy at the finish line!!
 
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