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FEATURED Lizzo Sued For Sexual Harassment By Former Employees

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Duwop said:
A lotta people are easy to bully cuz they are afraid to speak out.

They are afraid of being retaliated against. They are afraid of ridicule. They are afraid of being black balled in an industry.... It's a lot.

I mean, take pride in the fact that you feel you would stand up for yourself. But a lotta people not like that. We just fired someone cuz one thing came to light. Come to find out this dude been doing mad crazy shit.. and niggaz was quiet on it for a while.


Everybody not brave. That's how predators operate.... They single out people who they feel won't tell
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You're right of course. I just feel like at some point people do have to accept responsibility for their actions. If a boss propositions his subordinate, he's dead wrong. If the subordinate accepts the proposition to keep her job, that is a choice she made even if it was under messed up circumstances. If she continues on with that arrangement for years, that's also a choice. The boss should still suffer consequences for that initial proposition, but I don't want to hear that the subordinate was forced to put up with it for years because that's not really true.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
You're right of course. I just feel like at some point people do have to accept responsibility for their actions. If a boss propositions his subordinate, he's dead wrong. If the subordinate accepts the proposition to keep her job, that is a choice she made even if it was under messed up circumstances. If she continues on with that arrangement for years, that's also a choice. The boss should still suffer consequences for that initial proposition, but I don't want to hear that the subordinate was forced to put up with it for years because that's not really true.
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Assigning that level of blame to a person when a decision is made under coercion or duress doesn't make sense. The very nature of the situation you just described automatically indicates that the person in a subordinate position didn't have a level of autonomy needed to not be subjected to that behavior. You can't really fault a person so much for making a shitty choice when their only options they had to choose from are shitty.
 
BlackRain said:
Assigning that level of blame to a person when a decision is made under coercion or duress doesn't make sense. The very nature of the situation you just described automatically indicates that the person in a subordinate position didn't have a level of autonomy needed to not be subjected to that behavior. You can't really fault a person so much for making a shitty choice when their only options they had to choose from are shitty.
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I get what ya'll are saying. I believe the boss deserves to be punished, and I believe that the subordinate is a victim for ever being put in the situation.

I'm just saying that to me, somewhere along the line, there is a point where some of these victims are no longer under duress and are instead making a conscious decision to do the fucked up shit because they like the benefits. I mean in some of these cases, the victims have higher positions and are getting paid more than they deserve because of what they are doing for the abuser. I believe the reality is that some of these victims are willing to take the good with the bad and only come out when they are no longer getting the good.

A couple of the Cosby accusers sounded like that. They basically said they wanted Cosby's help in breaking into the industry, and he offered that help with the condition that they perform sexual favors for him. To be clear, that's scummy ass behavior, but is it really abuse if the victims assessed the situation, realized they might not make it in the biz without Cosby's help, and decided that having to give the sexual favors was worth it to get that big break?
 
The Lonious Monk said:
I get what ya'll are saying. I believe the boss deserves to be punished, and I believe that the subordinate is a victim for ever being put in the situation.

I'm just saying that to me, somewhere along the line, there is a point where some of these victims are no longer under duress and are instead making a conscious decision to do the fucked up shit because they like the benefits. I mean in some of these cases, the victims have higher positions and are getting paid more than they deserve because of what they are doing for the abuser. I believe the reality is that some of these victims are willing to take the good with the bad and only come out when they are no longer getting the good.

A couple of the Cosby accusers sounded like that. They basically said they wanted Cosby's help in breaking into the industry, and he offered that help with the condition that they perform sexual favors for him. To be clear, that's scummy ass behavior, but is it really abuse if the victims assessed the situation, realized they might not make it in the biz without Cosby's help, and decided that having to give the sexual favors was worth it to get that big break?
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Yes itā€™s still abuse. Like fucking your boss for a raise.
 
SeaSnake said:
Yes itā€™s still abuse. Like fucking your boss for a raise.
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I don't know. Bosses that make raises or promotions contingent on sexual favors should be fired. However, I can't just say that it's abuse across the board. We've seen cases where secretaries were getting paid 200K and receiving expensive gifts from their bosses because they were performing sexual favors. Who can say whether that person was doing what they did because they were coerced or because they liked the exceptionally large salary and the gifts? I mean when you listen to some of these women describe their situation, they literally sound like they were making business decisions.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
A couple of the Cosby accusers sounded like that. They basically said they wanted Cosby's help in breaking into the industry, and he offered that help with the condition that they perform sexual favors for him. To be clear, that's scummy ass behavior, but is it really abuse if the victims assessed the situation, realized they might not make it in the biz without Cosby's help, and decided that having to give the sexual favors was worth it to get that big break?
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That's informed consent.

I don't know if those Cosby situations were as cut and dry as that, though.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
I get what ya'll are saying. I believe the boss deserves to be punished, and I believe that the subordinate is a victim for ever being put in the situation.

I'm just saying that to me, somewhere along the line, there is a point where some of these victims are no longer under duress and are instead making a conscious decision to do the fucked up shit because they like the benefits. I mean in some of these cases, the victims have higher positions and are getting paid more than they deserve because of what they are doing for the abuser. I believe the reality is that some of these victims are willing to take the good with the bad and only come out when they are no longer getting the good.

A couple of the Cosby accusers sounded like that. They basically said they wanted Cosby's help in breaking into the industry, and he offered that help with the condition that they perform sexual favors for him. To be clear, that's scummy ass behavior, but is it really abuse if the victims assessed the situation, realized they might not make it in the biz without Cosby's help, and decided that having to give the sexual favors was worth it to get that big break?
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If you're initial decision was made under duress then the rest of the things you do while living the reality of that decision can possibly fall under that. Mainly because without the duress/coercion you would've never been in that position to begin. And if you're talking people's livelihood and careers then it's not hard to see why and how someone ends up there.

And it's still abuse. I mean if somebody punches you in the face and you saw it coming the shit still hurts doesn't it? Just because you're aware of what's happening doesn't make it any less coercive. You just know where the true power dynamics lie and work within that frame. But again if that shitty framework is all you've been given to work with then what other options are there?
 
Old Man Cain said:
So the dancer felt disrespected day one BUT still stayed around to be "humilated and disrespected" knowing at anytime they could've left yet somehow Lizzo is at fault for their inability to be an adult and leave a "toxic" environment.
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Not how the world works unfortunately.

Not everyone can just afford to up and quit jobs on a whim. A lot of people have no choice but to deal with a shitty boss and shitty work conditions.

You're not new here sir.
 
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