Im An Idiot

[konceptjones]

Spoken like true American propaganda.

The test right before the bombing of hiroshima produced a mushroom cloud over 2000 feet, created a mushroom cloud, and lit up the skies for tens of miles. The impact was in the tens of kilotons, meaning it equaled to hundreds of thousands of tnt explosions.

How could they have seen that and not known the impact of what would happen if you dropped that mfer in a densely populated area?

The US needed some live testing and had to do it then cause the war was gonna end in a few months. This is pretty much expected facts. Almost all ranking military personal from that time came out and admitted that dropping the bombs were unnecessary.

It was still only ONE test. Just to double-check I took a look before writing this:

Trinity was 21 kilotons.
Little Man was estimated to be around 15 kilotons (12-18kt).
Fat Boy was estimated to be around 20 kilotons (18-23kt)

These were estimates and the margin of error was somewhere around 20-25%. Trinity was detonated in the middle of the desert with only a farmhouse that they were working from nearby, which was leveled.

They didn't have to know what was going to happen, all they knew was that it was either that, or try to fight a ground war, dubbed Operation Downfall, which by many estimates could have taken up to a year and cost over a million American lives. Remember, it took us 3 months just to take Okinawa, and they fought very strategically on the ground which is why it took so long to take that ONE island. To take the main island with a similar strategy employed by the Japanese could have taken significantly longer and would have cost far more lives because in Okinawa they fought damned near to the last standing soldier; imagine trying to take the main island to the imperial palace against an enemy that simply will not stop?

With that knowledge, Truman executed the only option that would bring the war to its end as quickly as possible. The immediate cost in lives was about 120K, the final total being around 220-230K within 4 months. This versus what likely would have been millions of Japanese civilians dead from conventional bombings and artillery fire.

 

[Lou Cypher]

I used to feel exactly like you. But I listened to a podcast a couple years ago that might've changed my mind. I dunno if you fuck with Dan Carlin's Hardcore History. I doubt it, cuz it's boring as fuck for niggas who ain't history nerds like me. But it's really good.

You mentioned that Japan wasn't a threat anymore, in terms of winning the war. That's 100% true. But them Japanese niggas REALLY believed in that Bushido, 'no retreat, no surrender' shit back then. They wasn't like the Germans. When the German's realized it was a wrap, Hitler killed himself the the Nazis surrendered, hoping to survive. Them Japanese niggas was like 'Damn, we gonna lose this shit. Fuck! Ah well, come get us, you bitch ass niggas!'. So to defeat them niggas, it would require a land invasion of the Japanese islands. After the hard ass fighting in the South Pacific, like Iwo Jima and shit like that, a land invasion go Japan would've cost like a million US lives, millions of dollars, etc.

Not saying that makes it RIGHT. But imagine being President Truman, being told by the joint chiefs that they are almost done developing a bomb bigger than any other that could FORCE the Japanese to surrender, if dropped on civilians, and then it coming out however long later that you DIDN'T use it, sending a million Americans to die...when you could have avoided it all.

It makes you think about the shit more deeply, even if you don't end up changing your opinion of it.

Just my 2 cents.

don't take me down this rabbit hole, B. Lol.

I fucking love that podcast. Havent heard all of them but I listened to a few episodes of his ghengis khan series. Shit is crazy. Gotta go back and find out more, he goes so in depth with shit

 

[mryounggun]

I fucking love that podcast. Havent heard all of them but I listened to a few episodes of his ghengis khan series. Shit is crazy. Gotta go back and find out more, he goes so in depth with shit

Maaaan, that nigga put me up on MAD game about shit. I can't really say there's been an episode or series of episodes that I haven't enjoyed. Check out the Celtic Holocaust series of the podcast. He goes deep into Julias Ceaser's conquest of Gall.

I honestly am surprised I'm not the only nigga cruising around the whip listening to Dan Carin and shit. Lol.

 

[mryounggun]

It was still only ONE test. Just to double-check I took a look before writing this:

Trinity was 21 kilotons.
Little Man was estimated to be around 15 kilotons (12-18kt).
Fat Boy was estimated to be around 20 kilotons (18-23kt)

These were estimates and the margin of error was somewhere around 20-25%. Trinity was detonated in the middle of the desert with only a farmhouse that they were working from nearby, which was leveled.

They didn't have to know what was going to happen, all they knew was that it was either that, or try to fight a ground war, dubbed Operation Downfall, which by many estimates could have taken up to a year and cost over a million American lives. Remember, it took us 3 months just to take Okinawa, and they fought very strategically on the ground which is why it took so long to take that ONE island. To take the main island with a similar strategy employed by the Japanese could have taken significantly longer and would have cost far more lives because in Okinawa they fought damned near to the last standing soldier; imagine trying to take the main island to the imperial palace against an enemy that simply will not stop?

With that knowledge, Truman executed the only option that would bring the war to its end as quickly as possible. The immediate cost in lives was about 120K, the final total being around 220-230K within 4 months. This versus what likely would have been millions of Japanese civilians dead from conventional bombings and artillery fire.

What do you think about that argument that, if he didn't use the bomb and ordered a land invasion, that at least them niggas who were sure to die in the land invasion were members of the MILITARY, doing their job, who knew exactly what they signed up for - rather than the CIVILIANS in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

 

[AZTG]

It was still only ONE test. Just to double-check I took a look before writing this:

Trinity was 21 kilotons.
Little Man was estimated to be around 15 kilotons (12-18kt).
Fat Boy was estimated to be around 20 kilotons (18-23kt)

These were estimates and the margin of error was somewhere around 20-25%. Trinity was detonated in the middle of the desert with only a farmhouse that they were working from nearby, which was leveled.

They didn't have to know what was going to happen, all they knew was that it was either that, or try to fight a ground war, dubbed Operation Downfall, which by many estimates could have taken up to a year and cost over a million American lives. Remember, it took us 3 months just to take Okinawa, and they fought very strategically on the ground which is why it took so long to take that ONE island. To take the main island with a similar strategy employed by the Japanese could have taken significantly longer and would have cost far more lives because in Okinawa they fought damned near to the last standing soldier; imagine trying to take the main island to the imperial palace against an enemy that simply will not stop?

With that knowledge, Truman executed the only option that would bring the war to its end as quickly as possible. The immediate cost in lives was about 120K, the final total being around 220-230K within 4 months. This versus what likely would have been millions of Japanese civilians dead from conventional bombings and artillery fire.

Killing over 130k civilians is a war crime bruh. Lets not try justifying it. Civilians, not soldiers. Its a reason why its against the geneva conventions. Now times that by two.

I still dont understand how you can watch a bomb explode and cause 21 kilotons of impact and say you didnt know what was gonna happen if you dropped it on a city which you werent even bombing. Thats another thing. Hiroshima wasnt even a place the US was bombing. They wanted to drop the bomb on a place that hadnt been damaged by war cause they wanted to a live target.

And your post proves my point. 25% margin of error on a bomb you blew up that could be seen from miles and caused a 2 thousand feet tall mushroom cloud means you were certain 75% of that would happen, which would kill thousands of people. Lets not act like they didnt decide to kill over 200 thousand civilians. Thats a war crime by every definition of the word.

You decide to believe their official story? Cool. Ima go with logic.

 

[Big Lurko]

Fyi....

Yall ruined a good thread

 

[Achewon87]

World War II casualties - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Lou Cypher]

Maaaan, that nigga put me up on MAD game about shit. I can't really say there's been an episode or series of episodes that I haven't enjoyed. Check out the Celtic Holocaust series of the podcast. He goes deep into Julias Ceaser's conquest of Gall.

I honestly am surprised I'm not the only nigga cruising around the whip listening to Dan Carin and shit. Lol.

I love history and everything but those episodes are so fucking long I really really have to be in the mood to listen to them. I get so stuck in it too where I get irritated if i have any distractions so I dont even push play unless I can really invest the time to dive into them. So much information to retain too haha. Wish he would do episodes shorter than 3-4 hours too lol, but he doesn't stray off topic too much, its 4 hours straight about whatever topic hes on

 

[mryounggun]

Killing over 130k civilians is a war crime bruh. Lets not try justifying it. Civilians, not soldiers. Its a reason why its against the geneva conventions. Now times that by two.

I still dont understand how you can watch a bomb explode and cause 21 kilotons of impact and say you didnt know what was gonna happen if you dropped it on a city which you werent even bombing. Thats another thing. Hiroshima wasnt even a place the US was bombing. They wanted to drop the bomb on a place that hadnt been damaged by war cause they wanted to a live target.

And your post proves my point. 25% margin of error on a bomb you blew up that could be seen from miles and caused a 2 thousand feet tall mushroom cloud means you were certain 75% of that would happen, which would kill thousands of people. Lets not act like they didnt decide to kill over 200 thousand civilians. Thats a war crime by every definition of the war.

You decide to believe their official story? Cool. Ima go with logic.

There were no such things the Geneva Conventions when the bomb was dropped. They weren't put in place until after the way. But I agree that the 'we ain't know what was gonna happen!' shit. They knew.

 

[AZTG]

I used to feel exactly like you. But I listened to a podcast a couple years ago that might've changed my mind. I dunno if you fuck with Dan Carlin's Hardcore History. I doubt it, cuz it's boring as fuck for niggas who ain't history nerds like me. But it's really good.

You mentioned that Japan wasn't a threat anymore, in terms of winning the war. That's 100% true. But them Japanese niggas REALLY believed in that Bushido, 'no retreat, no surrender' shit back then. They wasn't like the Germans. When the German's realized it was a wrap, Hitler killed himself the the Nazis surrendered, hoping to survive. Them Japanese niggas was like 'Damn, we gonna lose this shit. Fuck! Ah well, come get us, you bitch ass niggas!'. So to defeat them niggas, it would require a land invasion of the Japanese islands. After the hard ass fighting in the South Pacific, like Iwo Jima and shit like that, a land invasion go Japan would've cost like a million US lives, millions of dollars, etc.

Not saying that makes it RIGHT. But imagine being President Truman, being told by the joint chiefs that they are almost done developing a bomb bigger than any other that could FORCE the Japanese to surrender, if dropped on civilians, and then it coming out however long later that you DIDN'T use it, sending a million Americans to die...when you could have avoided it all.

It makes you think about the shit more deeply, even if you don't end up changing your opinion of it.

Just my 2 cents.

don't take me down this rabbit hole, B. Lol.

Bruh I feel all that. But you still cant wipe out 200k civilians.

Remember when Trump said lets kill the families of terorrists? Would it work? Probably. But we all thought that was crazy. cant kill innocent family members. Now multiply that thousands and you got hiroshima.

We could have also took over all of Iraq by bombing the fuck out of every civilian populated area. But we cant do that.

When Trump took office and decreased the allowable acceptable amount of colleteral damage when dropping bombs, we all called him a piece of shit for it.

You can flip anything and make a case for it, but that doesnt make it right. Is there a logical case to be made for dropping a bomb to end the war quicker? Yes. But is it ever acceptable to kill close to 250k civilians? No.

Had anyone but America done it, they woulda got tried for war crimes.

 

[mryounggun]

I love history and everything but those episodes are so fucking long I really really have to be in the mood to listen to them. I get so stuck in it too where I get irritated if i have any distractions so I dont even push play unless I can really invest the time to dive into them. So much information to retain too haha. Wish he would do episodes shorter than 3-4 hours too lol, but he doesn't stray off topic too much, its 4 hours straight about whatever topic hes on

I'd like to argue with that, but I can't. I understand. The pod definitely ain't for everyone.

 

[AZTG]

There were no such things the Geneva Conventions when the bomb was dropped. They weren't put in place until after the way. But I agree that the 'we ain't know what was gonna happen!' shit. They knew.

The Geneva convention was created later, but the principles in it already existed. The geneva convention just made it possible to have a neutral court where you could try mfers.

The bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki would be classified as war crimes under the geneva convention.

They straight dropped the bombs on two cities that were not even afflicted by fighting. It wasnt even cities they were fighting in.

Did it end the war? Yep. Was that shit allowed? No. Illegal in every way. But who gonna take the US to court for it. Mfers cant even call Turkey killing the Armenians a genocide.

 

[mryounggun]

The Geneva convention was created later, but the principles in it already existed. The geneva convention just made it possible to have a neutral court where you could try mfers.

The bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki would be classified as war crimes under the geneva convention.

They straight dropped the bombs on two cities that were not even afflicted by fighting. It wasnt even cities they were fighting in.

Did it end the war? Yep. Was that shit allowed? No. Illegal in every way. But who gonna take the US to court for it. Mfers cant even call Turkey killing the Armenians a genocide.

If the Geneva Conventions were were created later...than it wasn't illegal. The fact that you're saying it WOULD have been illegal doesn't really matter ya know? But to be honest, debating that is irrelevant to me. Because I care way more able the moral question than the legal one. So let's drop it. I agree with everything else.

And I just recently learned REAL details about the Arminian genocide. I agree. There really isn't any other word you can use to accurately describe the shit.

 

[Achewon87]

What Turkey did was absolutely genocide, ethnic cleansing...

 

[AZTG]

All this can also be said for the using of Napalm in the Vietnam war too.

The US staying doing shit then making it illegal for other countries to do it. Shit is straight gangsta.

 

[AZTG]

What Turkey did was absolutely genocide, ethnic cleansing...

Shit was the holocaust before the holocaust but the US still wont categorize it as such since Turkey is an ally.

Politics are shitty as fuck.

 

[konceptjones]

What do you think about that argument that, if he didn't use the bomb and ordered a land invasion, that at least them niggas who were sure to die in the land invasion were members of the MILITARY, doing their job, who knew exactly what they signed up for - rather than the CIVILIANS in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

We would have killed far more civilians than the 230K that died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese citizens historically were known to take up arms against invaders.

 

[O.G.]

Fyi....

Yall ruined a good thread

I'll play along.

Why is Kanye considered a fashion icon? Most times I see him in photos or on t.v. he is wearing sweat pants or jeans and a hoody. I know he once use to wear Ralph polos but so did we. I get the whole Yeezy shoe thing but I think they are popular bcuz they at one time were hard to cop.
I don't get it.

 

[mryounggun]

We would have killed far more civilians than the 230K that died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese citizens historically were known to take up arms against invaders.

Good point. If there was ever a country where the citizenry would have taken it upon themselves to jump in and try to defend their nation voluntarily, it would the Japanese people pre-about-1965.

 

[mryounggun]

I'll play along.

Why is Kanye considered a fashion icon? Most times I see him in photos or on t.v. he is wearing sweat pants or jeans and a hoody. I know he once use to wear Ralph polos but so did we. I get the whole Yeezy shoe thing but I think they are popular bcuz they at one time were hard to cop.
I don't get it.

Good point. If there was ever a country where the citizenry would have taken it upon themselves to jump in and try to defend their nation voluntarily, it would the Japanese people pre-about-1965.

As I think more about it, I think maybe I disagree. Once the civilian population of another country take up arms against you in a war...I feel like those people are now no longer civilians.

But I think the fact that I'm so torn on it says a lot about how it must've felt in the moment trying to make the decision.