How foul is this?

[LUCIEN]

They are into them bc of the celebrity or perceived power they have attained

U are sorely missing the point

Not really. You're trying to separate power and celebrity from crime, yet dominant theories of deviance and crime attribute the very allure of crime to that same power. Strain theory holds that where an individual's circumstances don't permit them to attain power and success through acceptable practices then they resort to unacceptable practices. To restate it more clearly, we often make idols out of criminals, so this splitting of the two doesn't make sense when the fame comes from the crime. Sure, some cases they're already famous, but if the crime makes them famous then their appeal is a result of that crime and that does count as the promotion of crime since it's being rewarded.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Not really. You're trying to separate power and celebrity from crime, yet dominant theories of deviance and crime attribute the very allure of crime to that same power. Strain theory holds that where an individual's circumstances don't permit them to attain power and success through acceptable practices then they resort to unacceptable practices. To restate it more clearly, we often make idols out of criminals, so this splitting of the two doesn't make sense when the fame comes from the crime. Sure, some cases they're already famous, but if the crime makes them famous then their appeal is a result of that crime and that does count as the promotion of crime since it's being rewarded.

Funny how every name u dropped is AT LEAST nationally famous

 

[LUCIEN]

Funny how every name u dropped is AT LEAST nationally famous

If they weren't famous how would I know about them off hand, without deep research? It's their fame that makes them known and accessible. I could name other people, local criminals and shit, but you don't know them and neither do most other people.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

If they weren't famous how would I know about them off hand, without deep research? It's their fame that makes them known and accessible. I could name other people, local criminals and shit, but you don't know them and neither do most other people.

Thank u for proving my point

 

[LUCIEN]

Thank u for proving my point

Your point was that criminals who aren't entertainers don't have people going backstage. People who aren't entertaining aren't on a stage in the first place. It's a bland point to make; has little use. Criminals who aren't entertainers by trade do have women flocking to them, though. Gangbangers and more. I just read a piece on Dominican drug dealers in the Bronx using women to lure rival drug dealers out of their trap/stash houses so they can rob them: the everyday scenario of women flocking to drug money and power keeps their guard down. Contreras wrote a whole book on it called The Stick Up Kids.

In the purest sense, you are right about a useless tautology. But people are promoting and rewarding criminal behaviour, men and women, and not just when it produces national fame.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

No actually......mostly when it produces fame

 

[LUCIEN]

Do you not think the fact that we reward crime with fame is a sign that it is promoted and endorsed?

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Do you not think the fact that we reward crime with fame is a sign that it is promoted and endorsed?

Give examples?

Most ppl dont become famous until their crimes receive national headlines.

Ur local criminals might be hood famous but thats not the same thing.

 

[LUCIEN]

Give examples?

Most ppl dont become famous until their crimes receive national headlines.

Ur local criminals might be hood famous but thats not the same thing.

Of course they don't, how else would they become famous? Who becomes famous without mainstream media talking about them?

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Of course they don't, how else would they become famous? Who becomes famous without mainstream media talking about them?

Thanks for proving my point twice

 

[LUCIEN]

Thanks for proving my point twice

It's a self evident point that doesn't answer the question. How is rewarding crime with fame and money not a form of endorsement and/or promotion?

 

[ChicagoFigure]

It's a self evident point that doesn't answer the question. How is rewarding crime with fame and money not a form of endorsement and/or promotion?

If their crimes are heinous enough to become national headlines they gain fame

With that fame comes broken bitches

No one of sound morals clings to that bullshit

Whats your point?

 

[LUCIEN]

If their crimes are heinous enough to become national headlines they gain fame

With that fame comes broken bitches

No one of sound morals clings to that bullshit

Whats your point?

What are "sound morals" and "broken bitches"? Don't you find it odd that you're talking about morality while at the same time using hateful, gendered language to refer to a protected class of people which has been oppressed for some 50,000 years of human history? That's not very moral. Maybe you're broken.

My point is that you critiqued Allergens' post on the grounds that criminals who are not celebrities are not being rewarded or having their lifestyles promoted... but that is contradicted by the fact that people become celebrities by committing crimes. If their celebrity is a form of reward, which you seem to be dancing around, then your point loses a lot of its significance since Western culture is still rewarding criminals.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

What are "sound morals" and "broken bitches"? Don't you find it odd that you're talking about morality while at the same time using hateful, gendered language to refer to a protected class of people which has been oppressed for some 50,000 years of human history? That's not very moral. Maybe you're broken.

My point is that you critiqued Allergens' post on the grounds that criminals who are not celebrities are not being rewarded or having their lifestyles promoted... but that is contradicted by the fact that people become celebrities by committing crimes. If their celebrity is a form of reward, which you seem to be dancing around, then your point loses a lot of its significance since Western culture is still rewarding criminals.

Bruh what is my "hateful, gendered language"? Tf u talkin about?

People dont give any single one of those criminals celebrity status. Those national headlines do. They become celebrities due to national headlines and dumb dumbs cling to them.

I dont align with that line of thinking so idk why ur lumping me into this dumb shit.

 

[LUCIEN]

Bruh what is my "hateful, gendered language"? Tf u talkin about?

People dont give any single one of those criminals celebrity status. Those national headlines do. They become celebrities due to national headlines and dumb dumbs cling to them.

I dont align with that line of thinking so idk why ur lumping me into this dumb shit.

To the first question: "Broken bitches".

To the second part, people do give them status. Scientists and all kinds of other folks are talked about in the news. I personally can't name very many of them, but I can tell you the name of Marco Muzzo, a wealthy man who killed a family in Toronto while drunk driving. The fact that society pays more attention to that stuff is a sign of endorsement and promotion. A greater attention and concern is directed towards criminals than scientists. What does that tell you? Even if you don't personally align with that, that doesn't mean the rest of society doesn't.

Is society now broken bitches?

 

[ChicagoFigure]

To the first question: "Broken bitches".

To the second part, people do give them status. Scientists and all kinds of other folks are talked about in the news. I personally can't name very many of them, but I can tell you the name of Marco Muzzo, a wealthy man who killed a family in Toronto while drunk driving. The fact that society pays more attention to that stuff is a sign of endorsement and promotion. A greater attention and concern is directed towards criminals than scientists. What does that tell you? Even if you don't personally align with that, that doesn't mean the rest of society doesn't.

Is society now broken bitches?

People always give more attention to the taboo. I can assure u there are wayyyyyy more people that detest it than ppl who adore it. Which negates your point.

And "broken bitches" wasnt gender specific. Your own implications decided that. Says more about u than me fam.

 

[Kzzl]

Same goes for trans ppl

You aint seeing them in real life for them to have interaction with kids like that







Also for every positive hip hop song I can drop 100 ultra negative song and hip hop culture has massive reach when it comes to youth

YOU not seeing transgenders like that, doesn't mean others aren't. With our society going in the direction it's in, this is a situation we all may need to prepare for one day. I agree with a previous poster on leaving rap music out of this discussion as much as possible. Outsiders are too conniving with attaching their movement to something black when it's convenient for them. Do the criticizing in a separate thread where it's actually constructive for the genre.

 

[LUCIEN]

People always give more attention to the taboo. I can assure u there are wayyyyyy more people that detest it than ppl who adore it. Which negates your point.

And "broken bitches" wasnt gender specific. Your own implications decided that. Says more about u than me fam.

I was talking about women. In the context of the conversation, your comment was in response to a gendered subject and it is historically a gendered slur. I just wanted to comment on that bit of hypocrisy.

I agree there are more people who detest it than like it, but that doesn't mean it isn't rewarded and promoted at all or that it's not endorsed by significant portions of the population. Judging by your answers, it seems you think it can sometimes be a form of promotion. So where is the line drawn?

 

[ChicagoFigure]

I was talking about women. In the context of the conversation, your comment was in response to a gendered subject and it is historically a gendered slur. I just wanted to comment on that bit of hypocrisy.

I agree there are more people who detest it than like it, but that doesn't mean it isn't rewarded and promoted at all or that it's not endorsed by significant portions of the population. Judging by your answers, it seems you think it can sometimes be a form of promotion. So where is the line drawn?

If a dude is into that hes a weak bitch of no sound morals as well.

Nothing u are asking me now has not been already answered.

Man/woman commits heinous act, attracts national headlines, FEW people idolize compared to the MASSES that detest said person.

They achieve celebrity status for better or worse. Some morons idolize their CELEBRITY not their CRIME.

The end.

 

[LUCIEN]

If a dude is into that hes a weak bitch of no sound morals as well.

Nothing u are asking me now has not been already answered.

Man/woman commits heinous act, attracts national headlines, FEW people idolize compared to the MASSES that detest said person.

They achieve celebrity status for better or worse. Some morons idolize their CELEBRITY not their CRIME.

The end.

That's not persuasive. How many people admire jobs like dentistry or accounting? Dentists are the butt of many jokes. Yet people who pursue those careers make a lot of money and have power. Society rewards their otherwise unremarkable choices and this gives them access to women. Accepting that society is not rewarding criminals for their choices would logically mean that society is also not rewarding dentists and accountants. Doesn't make sense.