Fair or foul? Kevin Hart throwing his son a cowboys and Indians party

konceptjones said:
I'm not conflating anything. You're just ignoring the context laid out for you.

Our traditional way of dress carries with it all of the pain and suffering my people have gone through. The land we were murdered for. Our resources taken. Our women raped, our children murdered. You don't just throw that on as a costume and make a party out of it. It would be no different than white folks dressed up in African tribal dress and calling it a "Nigger Party"
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So you're saying that Native culture didn't exist until whites came along and started brutalizing you? That's bullshit and you know it. Natives existed and were doing their thing before white people even knew the Americas existed. So your culture is more than what they did to you. You're doing your own group a disservice to so intimately tie the culture you developed to the shit that white people did to you. That's crazy and it's not even true. If it is, then tell me why I can go to a reservation or a Native owned casino and buy Native clothing and items. If you see any wearing of that stuff by non-natives to be reflective of an acceptance of the trauma from the past, why do you sell it?

And again, you comparison is flawed. By the very act of calling a party a "Nigger Party" white people would be making it clear that the party was a mockery of black culture and not simply running with a theme. Did Kevin do that? Did he throw a "Savage Party" and have a bunch of people in full head dresses and war paint or did he have a "Cowboys and Indians Party" where some of the guests put on blankets with a native themed pattern. I'm not saying what he did was right, but can you really not see the difference between what he did and what you are saying he did?
 
King Du said:
i'm simply curious what's kevin's excuse/explanation..

and if we buy kevin's excuse/explanation, are we willing to buy the excuses/explanation given to us when we see shit online we find offensive......

is it really just an insensitive slip of judgement,

or are people deliberately oppression??

are Kevin hart and his asian wife deliberately oppressing native americans with these insensitive portrayals????
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Yeah, I don't know what his excuse is. My guess is that he just didn't think about it. He remember people doing that type of thing back in the day and didn't think it through with regards to how times have changed. I absolutely believe that some white people do the same thing from time to time, but blacks are never willing to acknowledge that, so your point is valid.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
So you're saying that Native culture didn't exist until whites came along and started brutalizing you? That's bullshit and you know it. Natives existed and were doing their thing before white people even knew the Americas existed. So your culture is more than what they did to you. You're doing your own group a disservice to so intimately tie the culture you developed to the shit that white people did to you. That's crazy and it's not even true. If it is, then tell me why I can go to a reservation or a Native owned casino and buy Native clothing and items. If you see any wearing of that stuff by non-natives to be reflective of an acceptance of the trauma from the past, why do you sell it?

And again, you comparison is flawed. By the very act of calling a party a "Nigger Party" white people would be making it clear that the party was a mockery of black culture and not simply running with a theme. Did Kevin do that? Did he throw a "Savage Party" and have a bunch of people in full head dresses and war paint or did he have a "Cowboys and Indians Party" where some of the guests put on blankets with a native themed pattern. I'm not saying what he did was right, but can you really not see the difference between what he did and what you are saying he did?
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Not to interrupt your back and forth but, some NAs do consider being called "Indians" offensive. Just a thought.
 
Mister said:
This begs the larger question: Does not thinking about it that way ever excuse someone of being offensive?
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image
 
Mister said:
Not to interrupt your back and forth but, some NAs do consider being called "Indians" offensive. Just a thought.
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Yeah, I'd agree with that criticism, but did they actually call it a "Cowboys and Indians" party or is that what we're calling it. I mean from what I can see, there are more people in that pic that aren't wearing any themed clothing than people who are dressed like cowboys.

King Du said:
in reference to those pics i dropped..

deliberate? or just didn't think about it??
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I believe the second and third pics are deliberate subliminal messaging.

The first pic I can see being an innocent mistake, but I wouldn't give white people the benefit of the doubt there.
 
King Du said:
but we can give kevin the benefit of the doubt?
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Yeah, because as far as I know Kevin doesn't have a history of pulling shit like this to insult other groups. White people absolutely do have a history of tying black people to monkeys as an insult, and it happens often enough that I don't believe anyone could not have seen the problem there. I mean seriously we just had a white gubernatorial candidate tell his constituents not to vote for the black gubernatorial candidate because they didn't want to "monkey" things up.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
So you're saying that Native culture didn't exist until whites came along and started brutalizing you? That's bullshit and you know it. Natives existed and were doing their thing before white people even knew the Americas existed. So your culture is more than what they did to you.
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Duh, the culture existed. What you're being intentionally dense about is what it represents to us NOW. Our numbers have been whittled down. Entire Tribal nations have been wiped off the face of the planet. All we have left is the heritage we have been passed, and that heritage carries with it the suffering of our people. It's not something to be thrown on for a children's birthday party unless that child is Native.

You're doing your own group a disservice to so intimately tie the culture you developed to the shit that white people did to you. That's crazy and it's not even true. If it is, then tell me why I can go to a reservation or a Native owned casino and buy Native clothing and items. If you see any wearing of that stuff by non-natives to be reflective of an acceptance of the trauma from the past, why do you sell it?
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This is simply the stupidest justification I've ever read. Did you even think this shit through before you wrote it?

And again, you comparison is flawed. By the very act of calling a party a "Nigger Party" white people would be making it clear that the party was a mockery of black culture and not simply running with a theme. Did Kevin do that? Did he throw a "Savage Party" and have a bunch of people in full head dresses and war paint or did he have a "Cowboys and Indians Party" where some of the guests put on blankets with a native themed pattern. I'm not saying what he did was right, but can you really not see the difference between what he did and what you are saying he did?
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And by calling us "Indians" you make it clear that it's a mockery of Native culture. We're not "Indians", our people have no ties to India. We never did and never will.
 
konceptjones said:
Duh, the culture existed. What you're being intentionally dense about is what it represents to us NOW. Our numbers have been whittled down. Entire Tribal nations have been wiped off the face of the planet. All we have left is the heritage we have been passed, and that heritage carries with it the suffering of our people. It's not something to be thrown on for a children's birthday party unless that child is Native.
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Again, you're conflating two things. If you want to say that your culture shouldn't be minimalized and used as fodder for BDay parties, I'd be with you. That makes perfect sense and is fair. However, for you to tie you culture to the atrocities that happened to your people and then say that anyone who references your culture is pushing those atrocities is just weird. Your culture is better than that. You should be able to acknowledge that people can like and respect elements of your culture without having anything to do with with what the Euros did to you. You can still check those people for the way they go about showing that respect, but it's unfair to tie everything that everyone does to what Europeans did to you.

This is simply the stupidest justification I've ever read. Did you even think this shit through before you wrote it?
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Why is it stupid? Explain it to me. You just told me that when Non-natives take Native influenced things and rep it, they are repping the atrocities committed to your people. Tell me why you would sell Native artifacts to non-natives if you guys felt that way.

And by calling us "Indians" you make it clear that it's a mockery of Native culture. We're not "Indians", our people have no ties to India. We never did and never will.
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I agree with this, but as I asked someone before, is that actually what Kevin called the party or is that just what people are reporting it as. I don't see anything in that tweet from the family that reference "Indians."
 
The Lonious Monk said:
Yeah, because as far as I know Kevin doesn't have a history of pulling shit like this to insult other groups. White people absolutely do have a history of tying black people to monkeys as an insult, and it happens often enough that I don't believe anyone could not have seen the problem there. I mean seriously we just had a white gubernatorial candidate tell his constituents not to vote for the black gubernatorial candidate because they didn't want to "monkey" things up.
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that shit was fucking hilarious
 
The Lonious Monk said:
Again, you're conflating two things. If you want to say that your culture shouldn't be minimalized and used as fodder for BDay parties, I'd be with you. That makes perfect sense and is fair. However, for you to tie you culture to the atrocities that happened to your people and then say that anyone who references your culture is pushing those atrocities is just weird. Your culture is better than that. You should be able to acknowledge that people can like and respect elements of your culture without having anything to do with with what the Euros did to you. You can still check those people for the way they go about showing that respect, but it's unfair to tie everything that everyone does to what Europeans did to you.
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So you're tellin me we ain't gonna check YT for wearing a Dhashiki and headwraps? 'cause I've seen that happen.


Why is it stupid? Explain it to me. You just told me that when Non-natives take Native influenced things and rep it, they are repping the atrocities committed to your people. Tell me why you would sell Native artifacts to non-natives if you guys felt that way.
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Every culture sells their native wares to others, this isn't the problem. It's when you take that and use it as a costume for a party that makes it offensive.
 
Babelipsss said:
Apologize for what. Throwing his kid a party? Apologize to who? Twitter? They seem to be the only ones upset. I haven't heard of any Native American organizations complaining about the party. I wouldn't have that type of party theme simply because my kids aren't interested in cowboys/Indians. But maybe his kid likes it. You really believe Kevin Hart is trying to defame the Native Americans? If he is then what good is an apology?
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Immediately proving my point. Lol
 
konceptjones said:
So you're tellin me we ain't gonna check YT for wearing a Dhashiki and headwraps? 'cause I've seen that happen.
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Some people would, and that's fine. The same way it's fine for Natives to check Kevin for this party. But wearing Dhashikis and headwraps and blackface are not the same thing. That's all I'm saying. White people could possibly do the former without meaning any offense. The latter is inherently offensive.

Every culture sells their native wares to others, this isn't the problem. It's when you take that and use it as a costume for a party that makes it offensive.
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Yes, but every culture doesn't claim that the people outside of that culture who show themselves representing aspects of that culture are feeding into hundreds of years perpetrated onto that culture. That's what you're claiming Kevin did. And I don't have a problem with Natives saying they don't like their culture being used as costume fare for parties. I'm just saying there is a difference between a group of people in Redface and a group of people wearing blankets with native themed prints on them. I already posted a pic of people in Redface. I don't see why it's so hard to admit that that is different from what Kevin and his people did.
 
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