Did integration hurt or help us as black people?

[SneakDZA]

Are we not trying to get back to where we started though?

Is there not a push for Black owned, black girl magic, better black community.

Like integration introduced the idea of being the shit by being the only black family on the block....

Now we want more black faces on the same blocks....

And we can get it....

I just feel like integration made us rush to focus on things we could have worked towards in our own time.

We had a stronger sense of community then, and now that we're all divided, it's a struggle trying to get it back

The stronger sense of community you're talking about was a byproduct of poverty, desperation, lack of resources and violent intimidation.

I have no idea how so many black people are able to look at the Jim Crow era through rose-colored glasses. It's almost insulting considering that black people that lived through that gave their lives so that we wouldn't have to.

I'm sure most or many of the people posting here live or have lived in what you could call a segregated neighborhood. There is no sense of community because all segregation does is make it easier for the racist power structure in the country to divert all resources out and away from those areas creating an environment where it's damn near impossible for anyone to thrive.

 

[Duwop]

The stronger sense of community you're talking about was a byproduct of poverty, desperation, lack of resources and violent intimidation.

I have no idea how so many black people are able to look at the Jim Crow era through rose-colored glasses. It's almost insulting considering that black people that lived through that gave their lives so that we wouldn't have to.

I'm sure most or many of the people posting here live or have lived in what you could call a segregated neighborhood. There is no sense of community because all segregation does is make it easier for the racist power structure in the country to divert all resources out and away from those areas creating an environment where it's damn near impossible for anyone to thrive.

This helps no one.

No one denies poverty, but we are stronger together than we are divided.

While some prevailed divided, many did not. And a large sense of frustration and strife amongst are people is that divide.

We constantly bicker about it, but at the same time long to repair it.

I strongly feel had we stayed united, our progress might have been much slower, but as a whole we would have been much stronger.

The destruction of our community was a perfect way to bring drugs in..... Shit is fucked up that mad Niggaz still don't see it

 

[SneakDZA]

Integration doesn't mean divided - I'm not sure where that idea comes from.

And the unity that you think existed during reconstruction and the Jim Crow era is a fantasy in my opinion. Being forced to live together in a dangerous and unfamiliar situation with the threat of being jailed, beaten or lynched if you ever "forgot your place" isn't what I would call true unity.

 

[JUDAH]

I think it's human nature to seek paths that are easier so to speak.

White segregation, we had no choice but to do for self. But the same hate that birthed those laws recognized the the disservice they were doing to their own monetary interests. Like @Cain said, their were bombs dropped on "Black Wallstreet". Who do you think made that call?

We were forced in to a situation, and made the best of it. But when it was apparent that we could flourish WITHOUT the help of of our opressors, I think it was like a double slap in the face. It went against the narrative that we are all lazy and good for nothin. But it also was a threat to the long goal...


Tulsa was destroyed in 1921 I beleieve. Women got the right to vote in 1920....and that was a push to ultimately give them more rights to increase tax revenue. Then follows the civil rights movement. Which meant more dollars for the already economic order.

It was about money first...but racism is a complicated thing.

And once we got everything we were asking for during the civil rights era, why go back?

Why do you think they deported Marcus Harvey? Lol.

"Garvey’s doctrine centered on the ideas of uniting the black race, educating all blacks, creating a strong economy that blacks could count on and promoting Christianity to all blacks. The focus was on self-help. As Garvey stated in the UNIA papers project:

"As the Jew is held together by his religion, the white races by the assumption and the unwritten law of superiority, and the Mongolian by the precious tie of blood, so likewise the Negro must be united in one grand racial hierarchy.""


He saw the long game...

 

[Duwop]

i don['t think you understand what segregated communities were.

There is no rose colored glasses, but there was a stronger sense of accountability. we all knew our neighbors, trusted our neighbors, and we all looked out for each other.

Yes it was absolutely our of fear and poverty, but the point is we were united.

Now the thing is this...the treatment of black people in america was a problem whether we were segregated or integrated...and it was being addressed and fixed regardless....

integration caused for a lot of increased violence, resistance and the destruction of the togetherness that was one of the few things holding us together as an identity.....

i know i'm repeating myself... but it's the one thing black folk keep trying to fix now that we got "status" and "money"


we as a whole recognize that we lost that in our rush to be accepted. MLK himself said he feared he integrated his people into a burning house.....

my whole point is back folk were going to ascend regardless...civil rights was gonna happen regardless.....economic shifts were going to happen....

but had we maintained our togetherness, we would have moved as a larger unit vs being sprinkled around here n there....

my wife grew up in one of those communities where she was the only black kid in most of her classes, sometimes two......that shit sucked.....

i grew up where it was all black kids.....now while her school system was shit loads better than mines....she can give a fuck less about a reunion....she don't iss tem white kids....

i wasn't even that popular and i miss my people from school.....we love being around our own people....

regardless of how the world tries to program us, we'd much rather struggle together than leave niggaz behind....

and we've been leaving a lotta niggaz behind....which explains this sudden desire to bring shit back together....

 

[SneakDZA]

I can still point to plenty of examples of segregated communities in the U.S. right now in 2018 and not one of them has all this unity you're talking about. Mostly it's the opposite.

I'm not sure how a legal mandate that enforces discrimination based on skin color would make that any better or even different.

 

[Duwop]

I can still point to plenty of examples of segregated communities in the U.S. right now in 2018 and not one of them has all this unity you're talking about. Mostly it's the opposite.

I'm not sure how a legal mandate that enforces discrimination based on skin color would make that any better or even different.

because they constantly take the best of the best out, and leave the rest to fend for themselves...

best athletes are taken out......
best medical minds...
best personalities....
best musicians.....

when you're the best... you are instructed to get out of the hood, and do better for yourself, and as a result we developed this mentality that getting money is more important than riding for your people.....

i mean that's what the best are showing us.. so what do the rest do?? they adapt that mentality as well.....

"get money"
"money over bitches"
"i'm a hustla"


yea communities these days are fucked up, because everybody either trying to get out, or shit on the niggaz that's still there....

the ones who actually give a shit are less and less.....

it's a plus that many are now seeing the trend... or "waking up" for lack of better words... but u still gotta lotta ben carson niggaz, who were the best in their field...plucked out of the ghetto, and now feel no obligation or connection to it....

if those people stay in their communities....everyone gets better... black pride stays a thing...'

we gotta rally and defend black pride...to black people these days,,,

 

[SneakDZA]

I get what you're saying but I don't agree that it's an integration issue as much as a poverty issue. The ghetto in the U.S. is typically a dangerous, depressing and stagnant place. I don't see anything wrong with improving the quality of your life or the lives of your children if you can.

 

[5th Letter]

Black people fell for the con. The idea of integration was for black people to get the same privileges as white people. Now think about it, why would white folks who have been oppressing black folks for 100+ years all of sudden want to treat you as equals? But we wanted what they had instead of building our own communities. Granted it didn’t help that they would either burn down thriving black communities or build highways thru black communities. But still, we went from controlling our own economy to becoming dependent on them.

 

[Babelipsss]

But did we really control our own economy back then? I think we need a realistic view of how things happened in the past. The only people who lived though it are now in their 80's. It's easy to wish for the good old days when you never experienced it.

 

[Duwop]

I get what you're saying but I don't agree that it's an integration issue as much as a poverty issue. The ghetto in the U.S. is typically a dangerous, depressing and stagnant place. I don't see anything wrong with improving the quality of your life or the lives of your children if you can.

it's like that because all the strength and leadership is systematically taken from it...

a whole people can't constantly be neglected....the crab in a barrel mentality has to stop....while some may always fall by the waist, as a people we have to start coming together much more often... if that involves some kneeling down int the mud to pick up others so be it....

it's just the mentality that we don't have to just cuz we made it is fucking up our identity and any ability to move forward as a unit...

there are tons of individual strides... but anytime we try to do something together....all we do is beef, cuz we lost touch with each other trying to be something other than together....

 

[5th Letter]

But did we really control our own economy back then? I think we need a realistic view of how things happened in the past. The only people who lived though it are now in their 80's. It's easy to wish for the good old days when you never experienced it.

We had no choice what do you think segregation was for? No one is saying that those days were great. Just looking at the few positives in terms of black people having no other choice but to be self sufficient, we had to stick together, all out of necessity.

 

[Old Man Cain]

But did we really control our own economy back then? I think we need a realistic view of how things happened in the past. The only people who lived though it are now in their 80's. It's easy to wish for the good old days when you never experienced it.

Yes, like I keep saying look at Black Wall Street as an example. All money made went back into the black community. They had Dr's, dentist, business owners, schools and banks. Even had people watching the stock market. They essentially was a self sufficient community running on their dime.

 

[Duwop]

Black people fell for the con. The idea of integration was for black people to get the same privileges as white people. Now think about it, why would white folks who have been oppressing black folks for 100+ years all of sudden want to treat you as equals? But we wanted what they had instead of building our own communities. Granted it didn’t help that they would either burn down thriving black communities or build highways thru black communities. But still, we went from controlling our own economy to becoming dependent on them.

it's easier to step on one ant than a whole hive....

 

[Duwop]

Yes, like I keep saying look at Black Wall Street as an example. All money made went back into the black community. They had Dr's, dentist, business owners, schools and banks. Even had people watching the stock market. They essentially was a self sufficient community running on their dime.

and it was significantly smaller than anything going on outside our own community, but it was ours....

now imagine if that had been allowed to grow 20-30 40 years.....

that would be a black mecca that is significantly better than any black community in america right now....

the whole point is any moves we make together are going to do more than things we do solo....

niggaz keep laughing at the thgouht of an all black owned league...

but can't see that majority of these leagues are dominated by blacks to begin with....

 

[5th Letter]

and it was significantly smaller than anything going on outside our own community, but it was ours....

now imagine if that had been allowed to grow 20-30 40 years.....

that would be a black mecca that is significantly better than any black community in america right now....

the whole point is any moves we make together are going to do more than things we do solo....

niggaz keep laughing at the thgouht of an all black owned league...

but can't see that majority of these leagues are dominated by blacks to begin with....

The MLB copied a lot of things from the Negro League including having night games.

 

[Duwop]

The MLB copied a lot of things from the Negro League including having night games.

negro league was the fucking shit.. i remember when it was trendy to applaud them.... then niggaz found a way to ahte on that shit too...

lol...

i swear the shit be clear as fuckign day

 

[Playmaker88]

Is there really integration though..

We still have alot of "First" like i said it was an ideal.. but in practice.... well.. there has been a steadfast opposition since integration was a thing.. like i said we are hear now.. but that opposition remains

 

[BlackRain]

Its not a clear black and white answer. In some ways it hurt because you have who took integration to mean emulation of white folks. However I do think that people have this overly rosy view of life pre integration like everyone was always together. There were divides on the issue then just like now...and there were crabs pulling people down just like now. Integration didn't create some of the problems affecting the community. Those were already there

 

[Duwop]

Is there really integration though..

We still have alot of "First" like i said it was an ideal.. but in practice.... well.. there has been a steadfast opposition since integration was a thing.. like i said we are hear now.. but that opposition remains

and i've been preaching it for a while... but nigaz hate the word obligation....

we let integration destroy our sense of community... now that we have some wealth, some money, some... let's restore community, and gradually improve our people..

problem #1..restoring the community image....

i honestly thing social media and the internet does that to an extent....

are we not a community? and just us having a collection of individuals online who don't even know each other in real life prior... but look how much of an impact this has created in our own lives... especially in what we talk about discuss, and our mentalites...

if black people don't like, enjoy, need, or ong to work and discuss things together... there's no black twitter, no black web......

think about it.....

we want this more than anything.....

restore our communities...