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Did Bryson Tiller's "Trap Soul" start the decline of real RnB?

do ya'll think that a lot of the shit sang by the Deborah Cox's of RnB hit different b/c the men were doing the majority of the writing of the songs?

Like, you not gon have a dude back then putting pussy in the lyrics, but he was just talking about a heartbreak and the female had the best voice to make it a song?
 
AP21 said:
do ya'll think that a lot of the shit sang by the Deborah Cox's of RnB hit different b/c the men were doing the majority of the writing of the songs?

Like, you not gon have a dude back then putting pussy in the lyrics, but he was just talking about a heartbreak and the female had the best voice to make it a song?
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I don't think who was writing had something to do with it necessarily, seeing that dudes wrote for male R&B singers too.

You put it perfectly, they just knew what R&B was.
 
DMorgan said:
Nice topic of discussion Ref!!! @AP21
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fam

i have so many thread topics in my head on a day to day basis but get bogged down with work and shit that i be forgetting

this one has been on my mind for a while though

glad you enjoying the convo
 
AP21 said:
do ya'll think that a lot of the shit sang by the Deborah Cox's of RnB hit different b/c the men were doing the majority of the writing of the songs?

Like, you not gon have a dude back then putting pussy in the lyrics, but he was just talking about a heartbreak and the female had the best voice to make it a song?
Click to expand...

I don't know who is writing most of the songs cause I don't look for stuff like that.

Maybe another thing to look at when it comes to where R&B is really lacking. Could it be the lyrics and singers are just singing what they've seen in their households as kids and on the internet? When I say that after a certain age teenage boys and girls realize that their mothers were or are kind of whorish if not flat out a whore. They also come to realize their fathers is or was kind of a womanizer if not flat out a womanizer who slept with damn near any woman no matter the quality of woman she was.

So that has shaped what they feel about love between a man and woman and relationships. Basically they might feel the emotions of the opposite sex is just to be played upon for what they can get out of it and not care about anything else.
 
It’s only declining depending on what you’re looking for. RnB has changed because the music biz has changed.

In the past the method to get on was get signed, then came artist development (vocal coaches, choreography, etc.)then the the label did the leg work to make you well known the cutting process was different. Guys like Tiller, PnD, Tory, etc. in the 90’s early 00’s would just be relegated to being songwriters because they aren’t great singers but they have nice pens.They can croon but aren’t “sangers”. So that’s one part. I think the Dream was a big groundbreaker for guys like that

Second part about what’s different today is content. Back in the day because there were more people in the process , if a song wasn’t a “you are my world” “ I wanna make sweet love” type ballad. A lot of shit had to be innuendo or alluded to. If a cat wanted to make a record about just fucking a bunch of women while off cocaine the record was made in a somewhat classy type way because RnB had a type of image to still live up to according to the industry. Now the shit is direct to consumer little to no middleman in the creative process. So a lot of that has been essentially been removed. A lot of cats records sound like how niggas would go about it on the day to day.

Shit just different and I get it. Some people immediately turned off if an act can’t Sang Sang. I’m cool with that. Some people are turned off when an act isn’t sultry in the lyrics I get that too. RnB just in a different place now from lyrics to production. I fucks with it but people who don’t just gotta search a lil harder. Cats still making that kind of RnB that y’all looking for now too which I also listen to heavy. Things go in cycles, the type y’all looking for will become the popular RnB again.
 
DMorgan said:
I don't know who is writing most of the songs cause I don't look for stuff like that.

Maybe another thing to look at when it comes to where R&B is really lacking. Could it be the lyrics and singers are just singing what they've seen in their households as kids and on the internet? When I say that after a certain age teenage boys and girls realize that their mothers were or are kind of whorish if not flat out a whore. They also come to realize their fathers is or was kind of a womanizer if not flat out a womanizer who slept with damn near any woman no matter the quality of woman she was.

So that has shaped what they feel about love between a man and woman and relationships. Basically they might feel the emotions of the opposite sex is just to be played upon for what they can get out of it and not care about anything else.
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Great points
 
DMorgan said:
I don't know who is writing most of the songs cause I don't look for stuff like that.

Maybe another thing to look at when it comes to where R&B is really lacking. Could it be the lyrics and singers are just singing what they've seen in their households as kids and on the internet? When I say that after a certain age teenage boys and girls realize that their mothers were or are kind of whorish if not flat out a whore. They also come to realize their fathers is or was kind of a womanizer if not flat out a womanizer who slept with damn near any woman no matter the quality of woman she was.

So that has shaped what they feel about love between a man and woman and relationships. Basically they might feel the emotions of the opposite sex is just to be played upon for what they can get out of it and not care about anything else.
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the rabbit hole goes deep

but to your point, with a lot of people popping on soundcloud and the like, there is no one telling them or rather advising them on how to make a song which would probably curb some of the raunchiness in their lyrics

I look at someone like Rico Love who has a pretty good pen but also has married the trap soul with traditional rnb ballad perfectly.

But let me not go on a tangent. If im a soundcloud rapper, nobody giving oversight of me...i'ma say pretty much what i want

the issue seems to be once these dudes get put on b/c the labels have been made aware of them, no one comes in like, lets clean this song up a bit and add some polish to it...
 
BDBIID said:
It’s only declining depending on what you’re looking for. RnB has changed because the music biz has changed.

In the past the method to get on was get signed, then came artist development (vocal coaches, choreography, etc.)then the the label did the leg work to make you well known the cutting process was different. Guys like Tiller, PnD, Tory, etc. in the 90’s early 00’s would just be relegated to being songwriters because they aren’t great singers but they have nice pens.They can croon but aren’t “sangers”. So that’s one part. I think the Dream was a big groundbreaker for guys like that

Second part about what’s different today is content. Back in the day because there were more people in the process , if a song wasn’t a “you are my world” “ I wanna make sweet love” type ballad. A lot of shit had to be innuendo or alluded to. If a cat wanted to make a record about just fucking a bunch of women while off cocaine the record was made in a somewhat classy type way because RnB had a type of image to still live up to according to the industry. Now the shit is direct to consumer little to no middleman in the creative process. So a lot of that has been essentially been removed. A lot of cats records sound like how niggas would go about it on the day to day.

Shit just different and I get it. Some people immediately turned off if an act can’t Sang Sang. I’m cool with that. Some people are turned off when an act isn’t sultry in the lyrics I get that too. RnB just in a different place now from lyrics to production. I fucks with it but people who don’t just gotta search a lil harder. Cats still making that kind of RnB that y’all looking for now too which I also listen to heavy. Things go in cycles, the type y’all looking for will become the popular RnB again.
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we thinking the same thing
 
AP21 said:
the rabbit hole goes deep

but to your point, with a lot of people popping on soundcloud and the like, there is no one telling them or rather advising them on how to make a song which would probably curb some of the raunchiness in their lyrics

I look at someone like Rico Love who has a pretty good pen but also has married the trap soul with traditional rnb ballad perfectly.

But let me not go on a tangent. If im a soundcloud rapper, nobody giving oversight of me...i'ma say pretty much what i want

the issue seems to be once these dudes get put on b/c the labels have been made aware of them, no one comes in like, lets clean this song up a bit and add some polish to it...
Click to expand...
Cause there’s no money for the budget

And its not that there isnt any, labels dont want to give it up
 
AP21 said:
the rabbit hole goes deep

but to your point, with a lot of people popping on soundcloud and the like, there is no one telling them or rather advising them on how to make a song which would probably curb some of the raunchiness in their lyrics

I look at someone like Rico Love who has a pretty good pen but also has married the trap soul with traditional rnb ballad perfectly.

But let me not go on a tangent. If im a soundcloud rapper, nobody giving oversight of me...i'ma say pretty much what i want

the issue seems to be once these dudes get put on b/c the labels have been made aware of them, no one comes in like, lets clean this song up a bit and add some polish to it...
Click to expand...

Heard of Rico Love but never listened to him.

So it's a combination of younger artists not really getting guidance and real artist development. Which I've heard that complaint before from veteran music people. The younger artist just say whatever cause that how they see fit.
 
Wouldn't like to say yes but this was when I knew something was wrong with me or with music. Everyone I spoke to thought this was the hottest shit ever and it was just generic crap to me
 
Never even heard of the album heard f his name thats it.. nah his shit happened circa 2003

when Rkelly made that song with cassidy

246135

after just googling Damn i was right on the money 2003


Image result for game over vince carter 480 × 270


For the people that says but..there is still RNB.. no shit we are talking about what drives the culture whats front and center

its pop...


i remember 25 year ago the idiotic notion of " commerical' was overblown and misguided now its the whole damn industry... those very same people
Image result for michael jackson cereal gif 320 × 240
 
Sion said:
Music changes over time and these kids are trying to find their sound. For them their experiences are trap and Drake's style of music because it's what's been heavily marketed to them. If they come out doing the Jodeci type of sound people are gonna say they're copying, if they do a more traditional sound their generation might not accept it. It's tough.
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but usher was a kid when he came out

and many of the artists, while they looked older, where in their mid 20's.

this not an excuse
 
AP21 said:
but usher was a kid when he came out

and many of the artists, while they looked older, where in their mid 20's.

this not an excuse
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But is Usher the usher we know if prior to any label he was getting 500k plus views on loosey records and a huge following prior to the signing?
 
Started with TQ, then got picked up by R. Kelly, then popularized by Trey Songz.

If you want to blame anyone start with them 3.
 
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