HBO DC's Joker 🃏

[IP360]

Also this joker and heath ledger's joker are two completely diff roles so personally i couldnt rank one over the other

I hate when people go and try compare Jokers.

Heath actually had the dynamic and interaction with Batman to work off of. Joaquin Phoenix had nothing but a blank slate to work off of.

People can have favorites but you can't compare the two because it's 2 very different roles and stories.

I never compared them. Each one stands on it's own. Just different versions.

 

[Bow to Royalty]

But this is Joker b4 the mayhem. An "orgin" per se

All those incidents were seeds that led to the Joker we know. Everything has to start from somewhere man.




Uhhh...killin a muthafucca on live tv and inciting Gotham riot wasn't enough chaos for you?? Lol.

Imo...I didn't need the Joker we already know. We know how psycho that muthafucca is. I wanted to know what led to that. I enjoyed this shyt. It was intriguing af. B/c for a sec...you felt sorry for him. You forgot about the villian he was gonna become in the future. Joaquin did that.

The riot was from the media though wasn't it? He didn't try to build a following. The media created a story, and they rioted for basically a class war.

Here's another way to explain it.

Imagine a batman origin story (pretend we've never seen one). In the story people keep trying to rob Bruce Wayne's house, and rob him when he's walking around. He beats up all these would-be robbers. Yes he's stopping criminals, but only the ones that fucked with him. That doesn't tell me he'll become a vigilante. That's a jump to a whole different level.

For Joker. Yes, he's crazy and violent, but only towards people that fuck with him. That doesn't tell me he'll become a mayhem loving villain. That's a jump to a whole different level.

 

[Bow to Royalty]

EXACTLY!

This why I said dont expect the psycho Joker we know to be in the movie. This was an orgin. A movie to answer the question "What led Joker to become who he is".

This is my point! They didn't tell us what led to Joker becoming who he is. They told us what led to him becoming a man who will kill people he believes have directly wronged him. From the movie I have no reason to think Joker would hurt someone just for entertainment, but that's who he is.
?&_

 

[IP360]

The riot was from the media though wasn't it? He didn't try to build a following. The media created a story, and they rioted for basically a class war.

Here's another way to explain it.

Imagine a batman origin story (pretend we've never seen one). In the story people keep trying to rob Bruce Wayne's house, and rob him when he's walking around. He beats up all these would-be robbers. Yes he's stopping criminals, but only the ones that fucked with him. That doesn't tell me he'll become a vigilante. That's a jump to a whole different level.

For Joker. Yes, he's crazy and violent, but only towards people that fuck with him. That doesn't tell me he'll become a mayhem loving villain. That's a jump to a whole different level.

Bruh you thinking way too deep.

Yes...the folks he killed were people who fucc'd wit him. BUT...the movie is tellin you how it all STARTED. What kickedstarted him to go down that path. What situations caused him to finally break mentally. You dont need to be told he becomes a mayhem loving villian. Audience already knows that.

 

[IP360]

This is my point! They didn't tell us what led to Joker becoming who he is. They told us what led to him becoming a man who will kill people he believes have directly wronged him. From the movie I have no reason to think Joker would hurt someone just for entertainment, but that's who he is.
?&_

Did you watch the movie man?? Lol! I'm not understanding the 1st bolded. The movie literally showed what set him on that path. So what specifically are you needing them to explain to you?

As for the 2nd bolded...yeah...but not until LATER on. A couple of years maybe. Again him killing people who wronged him was just the beginning. All the other psycho/criminal stuff doesn't come until later. Look at it like this...this movie was just the foundation to his psychotic ways.

 

[TheNightKing]

The descent into madness is a slippery slope. In this movie he is at the top of that slope. Yes he killed people that wronged him, but he showed zero remorse in doing so, and even took pleasure in it. It’s not a stretch to think this Joker won’t eventually become the one we all know from the comics.

 

[Natural Born Sinners]

I never compared them. Each one stands on it's own. Just different versions.

Yea. I can't compare leto, heath to this one. This joker had a human element that the others did not. Which makes him incomparable to the other two. I never rooted or felt bad for heath or leto. However, I found myself kinda rooting for this joker, just bc he showed his human side often. I think the mental health angle and how they executed that angle helped.
They didn't just show him in a strait jacket jerking around in a white padded room, but they showed how the system and his upbringing made him unstable.

 

[Bow to Royalty]

Did you watch the movie man?? Lol! I'm not understanding the 1st bolded. The movie literally showed what set him on that path. So what specifically are you needing them to explain to you?

As for the 2nd bolded...yeah...but not until LATER on. A couple of years maybe. Again him killing people who wronged him was just the beginning. All the other psycho/criminal stuff doesn't come until later. Look at it like this...this movie was just the foundation to his psychotic ways.

The movie showed what made him stop being a doormat, and start killing people that did shit to him. That's a long way from where he ends up. That's all I'm saying.

The Batman example I gave explains my problem with it. A batman origin story shouldn't end with Bruce Wayne as the head of some neighborhood watch. Then we say well that's good enough...we know that developed into him becoming vigilante Batman.

We'd need an origin story part 2 showing what motivated him to go from neighborhood watch leader, to citywide hero. That's all I'm saying. It's an origin story that stopped short IMO.

 

[Duwop]

I get what @Bow to Royalty is saying, cuz I feel the same way.... But I stopped arguing it cuz people don't seem to want to get it...

Joker isn't just about killing. He isn't just about getting people back who wronged him.

He's a random instrument of chaos. The reason he never had a true origin is because there is no true reason or motive behind his madness. He's random. And he enjoys it

This dude wasn't. He wasn't random. His killings all had motives. And he was never having fun with the killing.

That's why he's not joker to me. Every crazy dude that kills isn't joker or building his way to being joker.

I saw nothing that lead me to believe he was on his way to becoming the Joker we know and love. He just seemed like a guy who killed when he was provoked.

Natural born killers were more random than him.

That's the whole point. Sure he looked crazy, but not like a guy having the time of his life. And above all joker has fun

 

[Duwop]

If he seemed to enjoy his descent.... Like he was getting off on killing people... It would have been closer to me...

His laugh was painful.... But if his laugh became more joy filled with each dark step....I would have been sold

 

[TheNightKing]

If he seemed to enjoy his descent.... Like he was getting off on killing people... It would have been closer to me...

His laugh was painful.... But if his laugh became more joy filled with each dark step....I would have been sold

Did he not laugh joyfully after he shot the tv show host?

I guess it could have been up to interpretation, which is why I said having the laugh be a condition was genius.

 

[Bow to Royalty]

Did he not laugh joyfully after he shot the tv show host?

I guess it could have been up to interpretation, which is why I said having the laugh be a condition was genius.

Not really at the bolded. He went on a rant about issues with society, and talked about how some lives are valued over others. Then spoke about how people aren't empathetic enough about other people's situations, and hope society turns it's back on the mentally ill(Real psycho talk, right?). Then he killed Murray. There was eventually a short laugh, but there wasn't much to it. Here's audio (I couldn't find a video)

 

[Bow to Royalty]

Making it a condition made him less crazy. Wasn't feeling it. It's like thinking someone is a sociopath then finding out he has memory loss, and just doesn't remember his bad deeds

 

[MorganFreemanKing]

As i said earlier it's a great movie, but a so so joker movie. Watching that descent into madness was dope but it wasn't the Joker's madness.

The connections to the Batman universe were the primary weaknesses of the film.

The whole Thomas Wayne being his father? Weak. The dude killing Thomas AND Martha because of some political stance? Trash.

Leave all that out and the movie improves.

 

[IP360]

Making it a condition made him less crazy. Wasn't feeling it. It's like thinking someone is a sociopath then finding out he has memory loss, and just doesn't remember his bad deeds

But remember what he told his mom in the hospital? About how SHE told him his laughter was a condition, and he no longer felt it was. And now he embraced it.

 

[IP360]

Did he not laugh joyfully after he shot the tv show host?

I guess it could have been up to interpretation, which is why I said having the laugh be a condition was genius.

Fucc a laugh...wasn't that muthafucca dancin?? Lol!

Again...he JUST NOW started on this path to mayhem. By the time he killed the tv host...that is when he began to accept his "madness"

 

[Duwop]

He was in constant torment and pain... To me that's not joker

Joker has fun in madness... Joker is gleeful about murder...


This version was not. So to me it didn't connect.


Dope movie though

 

[TheNightKing]

He was in constant torment and pain... To me that's not joker

Joker has fun in madness... Joker is gleeful about murder...


This version was not. So to me it didn't connect.


Dope movie though

How many times must I say NOT YET!

Lol, it’s an origin story. The Joker y’all referencing comes years later.

That’s like expecting Walter White to be the series finale version of himself in the first episode.

 

[Bow to Royalty]

How many times must I say NOT YET!

Lol, it’s an origin story. The Joker y’all referencing comes years later.

That’s like expecting Walter White to be the series finale version of himself in the first episode.

We're not asking to see him as a fully established criminal mastermind. We're asking to see a personality. The jump the movie is asking to audience to make is too big... that's the problem

The Breaking Bad comparison doesn't make sense. You're comparing a multiple season show that told a story from beginning to end, to a 1-and-done movie.

But for Breaking Bad let's say it was a movie (instead of a show) that started out with him as final Walter White. His origin movie couldn't end with him nervously selling a bag of weed to a high school kid, because the jump from that to cold-blooded meth kingpin is too big. It wouldn't just be "Well, they did show he started dealing drugs. And I know he ends up a bigger version of that...so good job."

Was this a good Batman origin story too? They showed his parents get killed, we found out the motive behind it, we know the man that instigated it, we know why that man hated his father, and we know little Bruce ends up Batman.

 

[TheNightKing]

We're not asking to see him as a fully established criminal mastermind. We're asking to see a personality. The jump the movie is asking to audience to make is too big... that's the problem

The Breaking Bad comparison doesn't make sense. You're comparing a multiple season show that told a story from beginning to end, to a 1-and-done movie.

But for Breaking Bad let's say it was a movie (instead of a show) that started out with him as final Walter White. His origin movie couldn't end with him nervously selling a bag of weed to a high school kid, because the jump from that to cold-blooded meth kingpin is too big. It wouldn't just be "Well, they did show he started dealing drugs. And I know he ends up a bigger version of that...so good job."

Was this a good Batman origin story too? They showed his parents get killed, we found out the motive behind it, we know the man that instigated it, we know why that man hated his father, and we know little Bruce ends up Batman.

Ok, keeping with the Breaking Bad comparison, the origin story could end with him meeting Jesse Pinkman and making his first batch of meth. It wouldn’t directly suggest he’d become this badass drug dealer that takes out bosses, but you could make the connection given our knowledge of what he becomes.

And that’s exactly what this movie does. It allows you to make the connection between this Joker and what other mediums show what he devolves into.

So can y’all not even see this guy becoming the Joker you expect him to be years down the road? I can.