Cleopatra (Starring Gal Gadot) (TBA)

[JohnSmithCAN]

lol you just had "oecumenia" in the tuck huh?

I don't get it.

 

[Duwop]

This is crazy ..

Like word for word in this Anne Rice FB group where they arguing Akasha being casted.

I think anyone middle Eastern is acceptable in both cases.

Gal from Israel.... And she got the star power.

I don't see an issue

 

[JohnSmithCAN]

This is crazy ..

Like word for word in this Anne Rice FB group where they arguing Akasha being casted.

I think anyone middle Eastern is acceptable in both cases.

Gal from Israel.... And she got the star power.

I don't see an issue

Who's Akasha?

 

[The Lonious Monk]

What is a "black African" ? We are not the Smurfs. Africa is a continent with very diverse indigenous populations. We identify as "black Africans" today because the white man told us so. But Black-ness was barely a identity marker to substantiate our cultural ethos through for our ancestors. Some were "black" , some were "red" , some were "light" and some were even sometimes albino. The Berbers, Egyptians and Cushites are various hues of light, red and reddish black... yet, the former ones, the Egyptians used to qualify themselves as Kemmiu, "the people of the Land of the Blacks" , but more importantly as remmiu/remetu "free citizens" .

You make a fair point, but it's irrelevant. My point was about how people describe her now. You're right that in the past, these divisions may not have meant anything. However, now Black and Middle East and North African (MENA) are considered two distinct races.

 

[Duwop]

Who's Akasha?

Character Aaliyah played. Similar background to Cleopatra. She was originally from Uruk, or modern-day Iraq. She later becomes Queen in Kemet.

People on the groups think she should be cast as a middle Eastern woman.... While many others want another black woman like Aaliyah.

I could see them doing a fair skinned Israeli in the AMC series like they just did gal gadot

 

[JohnSmithCAN]

You make a fair point, but it's irrelevant. My point was about how people describe her now. You're right that in the past, these divisions may not have meant anything. However, now Black and Middle East and North African (MENA) are considered two distinct races.

Except when people gets confronted at the facts that the Berbers and Egyptians are more closely related to the Cushites than the Semites, Iranians and other modern Near East ethnic groups genetically-wise, whilst an African cross-cultural contuinity is still prevailing within these respective North African and Northeast African populations and sub-Saharan Africans.

As soon you mention either one of them, people gets cofronted to evidence some shared African cross-ethnic cultural root and white people won't get it. They only want the likes of North Africa to evolve outside of Africa instead recognizing that we're speaking about an ancient, very complex organism, not about an ethno-nation fantasy.

This is the same paradox we found between the Haitians and the Dominicans. Dominicans are simply Spanish-speaking Haitians yet they are persuaded to be apart from the rest of the West Indies, starting with a country only divided from theirs by some imaginary line in the middle of an island, traced out there about one hundred years ago by the Cooning bi-racial and white elites. Except that given DR's proximity with the Latin world and America you heard more about how Dominicans slowly began to embrace their African heritage.

North Africa and its rural populations are too far away.

 

[JohnSmithCAN]

View attachment 379285

Character Aaliyah played. Similar background to Cleopatra. She was originally from Uruk, or modern-day Iraq. She later becomes Queen in Kemet.

People on the groups think she should be cast as a middle Eastern woman.... While many others want another black woman like Aaliyah.

I could see them doing a fair skinned Israeli in the AMC series like they just did gal gadot

Oh, that "Interview With A Vampire" spin-off?

I thought the Sumerians were rather brown skinned. They were pretty much a mix of Near Eastern farmers (lighter skinned proto-Cushite looking Afro-Asiatic speakers) , of Dravidians, of of Zagros farmers, proto-Canaanites from the Arabian peninsula and copper-skinned Bronze Age South Caucasians.

Might took somebody a little more Iraqi-looking with a darker hue, given than their skin complexion ranged from a tan olive beige to a predominant dark reddish brown hue. They dubbed themselves the zalmăt-kikkadu "dark reddish skinned people" , adamatu "people of the purple soil; purple hued people" or šag-gig-ga "the black-headed people" , after all.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Except when people gets confronted at the facts that the Berbers and Egyptians are more closely related to the Cushites than the Semites, Iranians and other modern Near East ethnic groups genetically-wise, whilst an African cross-cultural contuinity is still prevailing within these respective North African and Northeast African populations and sub-Saharan Africans.

As soon you mention either one of them, people gets cofronted to evidence some shared African cross-ethnic cultural root and white people won't get it. They only want the likes of North Africa to evolve outside of Africa instead recognizing that we're speaking about an ancient, very complex organism, not about an ethno-nation fantasy.

This is the same paradox we found between the Haitians and the Dominicans. Dominicans are simply Spanish-speaking Haitians yet they are persuaded to be apart from the rest of the West Indies, starting with a country only divided from theirs by some imaginary line in the middle of an island, traced out there about one hundred years ago by the Cooning bi-racial and white elites. Wxcept that given DR's proximity with the Latin world and America you heard more about how Dominicans slowly began to embrace their African heritage.

North Africa and its rural populations are too far away.

Yeah I hear you. When you actually look at it from a scientific standpoint, race itself is nearly nonsensical especially how it is popularly defined. At the end of the day, Africa is Africa. The northern population is different from subsaharan Africans. Scandinavians are different from Mediteraneans. Yet, no one tries to claim that Finland is European but Italy is not.

 

[SneakDZA]

Well, her sister Arsinoe does certainly figure out within their claims.

You can claim em.

But they don't claim us.

The people that live in Egypt now... 4000 years after the fact - are just as close to the original Egyptians as the people that live in the USA are to Native Americans 400 years ago. Ancient Egyptians were not Arabs... that happened relatively recently in world history.

I swear we need more black archeologists and historians if we're ever going to correct these false narratives that people seem to base their opinions on.

 

[SneakDZA]

Also Cleopatra was white. But who cares. She was a Ptolemy. She came in at the end of the Egyptian dynastic period. There was 2000 years of history before that. 2000. Let me say it again... 2000 years of history.

Let's hear some stories about Ramses II or Imhotep or Hatsheput or Pepi or Akhenaten or Tiye. The reason that never happens is because those people were undeniably Black African people.

 

[SneakDZA]

This little bullshit country we live in is only 400 years old for reference and already falling apart over stupid shit.

 

[JohnSmithCAN]

The people that live in Egypt now... 4000 years after the fact - are just as close to the original Egyptians as the people that live in the USA are to Native Americans 400 years ago. Ancient Egyptians were not Arabs... that happened relatively recently in world history.

I swear we need more black archeologists and historians if we're ever going to correct these false narratives that people seem to base their opinions on.

Again, like I've said earlier half of the Egyptian population are native Egyptians. If you look at them, you would know that their indigenous background was likely alike-to-a-tad-darker because very few details about them suggests they are not native to that land. They're basically still the same: slender of built, proponent to get ample, average-to-taller in height, dark reddish brown to light brown hues, globular -socketed almond-shaped dark to green eyes, wavy to frizzly dark hair, thin or prominent noses and features mostly intermediary between the Nilo-Cushites and Lybian Berbers.

The sole differences are that they're now mixed with various other populations over the last 4,000 years, yet genetically and culturally wise they're still none only the closest descendants of the ancient Egyptians alive but also their direct ethnocultural continuity.

 

[JohnSmithCAN]

Also Cleopatra was white. But who cares. She was a Ptolemy. She came in at the end of the Egyptian dynastic period. There was 2000 years of history before that. 2000. Let me say it again... 2000 years of history.

Let's hear some stories about Ramses II or Imhotep or Hatsheput or Pepi or Akhenaten or Tiye. The reason that never happens is because those people were undeniably Black African people.

Cleopatra wasn't white, like I've mentioned earlier. Her father was of mostly Greek Macedonian heritage, her natural mother an indigenous courtesan native from the Thebaid in Upper Egypt.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Again, like I've said earlier half of the Egyptian population are native Egyptians. If you look at them, you would know that their indigenous background was likely alike-to-a-tad-darker because very few details about them suggests they are not native to that land. They're basically still the same: slender of built, proponent to get ample, average-to-taller in height, dark reddish brown to light brown hues, globular -socketed almond-shaped dark to green eyes, wavy to frizzly dark hair, thin or prominent noses and features mostly intermediary between the Nilo-Cushites and Lybian Berbers.

The sole differences are that they're now mixed with various other populations over the last 4,000 years, yet genetically and culturally wise they're still none only the closest descendants of the ancient Egyptians alive but also their direct ethnocultural continuity.

If I really had to hazard a guess, I'd say the original Egyptians probably look something like the natives in the Sudan, Somali, and Ethiopian regions. Even among those peoples phenotypes vary quite a bit, so I don't think the native Egyptians were ever some groups where there was a common look across everyone that lived there.

 

[SneakDZA]

Again, like I've said earlier half of the Egyptian population are native Egyptians. If you look at them, you would know that their indigenous background was likely alike-to-a-tad-darker because very few details about them suggests they are not native to that land. They're basically still the same: slender of built, proponent to get ample, average-to-taller in height, dark reddish brown to light brown hues, globular -socketed almond-shaped dark to green eyes, wavy to frizzly dark hair, thin or prominent noses and features mostly intermediary between the Nilo-Cushites and Lybian Berbers.

The sole differences are that they're now mixed with various other populations over the last 4,000 years, yet genetically and culturally wise they're still none only the closest descendants of the ancient Egyptians alive but also their direct ethnocultural continuity.

So you're saying that in the first center of the civilized world the demographics of the population stayed roughly the same over the course of 4000-7000 years?

The Egyptians originated from a land called Punt which most credible historians consider being somewhere in area of what is now Sudan but possibly even further south. Sudanese people are more than just a "tad darker" than arabs. They are Black People.

 

[JohnSmithCAN]

So you're saying that in the first center of the civilized world the demographics of the population stayed roughly the same over the course of 4000-7000 years?

The Egyptians originated from a land called Punt which most credible historians consider being somewhere in area of what is now Sudan but possibly even further south. Sudanese people are more than just a "tad darker" than arabs. They are Black People.

The Puntite colonists in matter were Afro-Asiatic speakers. Even perhaps Proto-Cushites. They settled around Northern Sudan, Upper Egypt and its vicinities around 10,000 BCE ans mingled with the earlier nomadic and fishing-gathering Chancelade Men/Paleolithic West Eurasian, Iberomaurusian, Proto-Nilo-Saharan and Proto-Afrasian group populations settled there beforehand. Further Proto-Nilo-Saharan, Pastoral Saharan (mixed Cushitic/Savannah Pastoral Saharan) and latter Libyco-Berber, Proto-Canaanite and Near East Neolithic Farmer (who were lighter skinned Afro-Asiatic speakers) group elements followed up around 7,000 to 2,500 BCE.

The first populations to settle an agropastoral livelihood in the Upper Nile regions of Central Northeast Africa, the Great Lakes regions, East Africa and Sudan were Afro-Asiatic speakers of Cushitic and Proto-Cushitic stock. The ancient Egyptians were closely related to the southern Kushites of Lower Nubia, who were a population of mixed Cushitic and Nilo-Sudanese stock neighboring the Nilo-Sudanese Ta-Sety bowmen (their frequent interunions were the reasons whence Nilotic elements were found amid the Abydos rulers of the Proto-Dynastic and Early Dynastic periods) . Eventually, the two populations mingled so frequently that Ta-Sety evolved within the next few millenia into an another denomination for Kush and that in Late Roman Antiquity, the darker-skinned Nubae tribe from northwest Sudan (ancestors to the Nubas, Chollø and various other Nilo-Saharan speaking populations from all over Northeast Africa, Central Africa and East Africa) claimed ancestral royal kinship and birthright to their contemporary Meroitic royals and their regal seat, in spite the latter ones were said to be generally as "red" skinned (dark to medium-light reddish-brown skin) as the generic Meroitic population.

The genetic makeup of the Upper Egyptians, Fellahins and Copts remains still predominantly indigenous, which suggests that they are all the closest genetic descendants of ancient Egyptians alive, who mingled with latter populations while still preserving much of their ethnocultural, genotypical and phenotypical makeups (the Copts being the more mixed of these groups) .

If you've seen pictures of Moustafa Gadallah, Fellahis, Bohairic Egyptians and modern Upper Egyptians, it will give you an idea about how close they still remains to the likeness of their ancestors.

 

[JohnSmithCAN]

If I really had to hazard a guess, I'd say the original Egyptians probably look something like the natives in the Sudan, Somali, and Ethiopian regions. Even among those peoples phenotypes vary quite a bit, so I don't think the native Egyptians were ever some groups where there was a common look across everyone that lived there.

Never said the contrary. I only gave a generic assumption about how ancient Egyptians used to be slightly darker in phenotype in comparison to their modern descendants. It never stopped the proliferation of a variety of color skin within the dark and olive spectrum, especially given the fact that the genetic code responsible of Near East Neolithic Farmer-inherited lighter brown skin in Northeast Africa and some sub-Saharan countries does originates from around the regions of Middle-Egypt and Lower-Egypt from the Protodynastic period.

 

[Soul_Rattler]

 

[King of GA]

Wrong.

The Upper Egyptians are quite outspoken about their ancestral ties within the rest of the African oecumenia and one of his most prominent scholars, an Egyptian American man named Moustafa Gadallah, is quite hostile about white supremacy prominent at both his birthplace and America.

Even Egyptian American actor Rami Malek, who's an Arabicized Copt often playing ambiguously brown or white roles in television and films, openly identifies himself as both a Black American and Arab American, then praises the Egyptian American community's ancestral ties within the rest of the African diaspora in U.S.A. .

You seem real passionate about this even though you really can't prove anything. The Ptolemy's were notoriously incestuous and it is every bit as likely that Ptolemy XII's sister-wife, Cleopatra V, birthed Cleopatra VII. If Cleopatra VII had a full sister it was most likely Berenice. There is a 7 year gap between Cleopatra VII and the next group of kids, Arsinoe IV, Ptolemy XIII, and Ptolemy XIV, who were all born within 4 years of each other and likely shared a mother. However, even that can't be proven...

You may very well be right, but my point is that you, like the rest of us, don't really know...

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Never said the contrary. I only gave a generic assumption about how ancient Egyptians used to be slightly darker in phenotype in comparison to their modern descendants. It never stopped the proliferation of a variety of color skin within the dark and olive spectrum, especially given the fact that the genetic code responsible of Near East Neolithic Farmer-inherited lighter brown skin in Northeast Africa and some sub-Saharan countries does originates from around the regions of Middle-Egypt and Lower-Egypt from the Protodynastic period.

I wasn't arguing with you bruh, I was just adding on.