COMMUNITY United States Politics Thread: Trump's Second Term

ChicagoFigure said:
Well yea he campaigned on change and just continued delivering status quo

I think a lot of people are still unwilling to make the connection. The fact that Trump became so popular for shitting on the establishment at the expense of decorum is proof that while Obama made ppl feel comfortable, they were still unhappy with the current state. Yes I know this is just my opinion.

Ok, I agree Obama was better than all of them. I also liked Clinton. But he partially repealed glass steagull which contributed to the 2008 financial crisis. Just bc I like them, doesn't negate these facts.
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The bold can be explained by racism. It was racism that made trump gain popularity. People were unhappy with a Black man in that position and started making up shit like "Obama wears a helmet while riding a bike. Putin doesn't. He's more manly". Obama was by no means a perfect president but the rise of Trump and his push against decorum was fueled mainly by racism against a Black man being in office.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
I got you.

I think the think the media was the bigger problem for Bernie. It was one thing for FOXNews to paint him as a crackpot, but MSNBC and CNN did the same thing. They kept on acting like everything he proposed was crazy. Even when he dropped his Healthcare plan the democratic outlets continued to act like it was some pie in the sky shit and not an actual laid out plan like it was. It's hard for a candidate to get traction when the people that are supposedly on his side are tearing him down too.
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I think Bernie definitely got done dirty by the media and there was an establishment of Dems who didn't want him. But Bernie's biggest problem imo seems to be his continued refusal to acknowledge race. He keeps trying to push this race blind pov and "we only want the best people" bullshit that simply doesn't reflect how the world actually works. And when called out on that some of his supporters lash out. They're very much a "i dont see race i see people" group and thats just never gonna work.
 


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BlackRain said:
The bold can be explained by racism. It was racism that made trump gain popularity. People were unhappy with a Black man in that position and started making up shit like "Obama wears a helmet while riding a bike. Putin doesn't. He's more manly". Obama was by no means a perfect president but the rise of Trump and his push against decorum was fueled mainly by racism against a Black man being in office.
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Precisely.
 
BlackRain said:
The bold can be explained by racism. It was racism that made trump gain popularity. People were unhappy with a Black man in that position and started making up shit like "Obama wears a helmet while riding a bike. Putin doesn't. He's more manly". Obama was by no means a perfect president but the rise of Trump and his push against decorum was fueled mainly by racism against a Black man being in office.
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To blame it all on racism is a cop out

Like saying the only reason Kamala lost was race/gender
 
BlackRain said:
I think Bernie definitely got done dirty by the media and there was an establishment of Dems who didn't want him. But Bernie's biggest problem imo seems to be his continued refusal to acknowledge race. He keeps trying to push this race blind pov and "we only want the best people" bullshit that simply doesn't reflect how the world actually works. And when called out on that some of his supporters lash out. They're very much a "i dont see race i see people" group and thats just never gonna work.
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A lot of Bernie's supporters are trash. That's for sure.

I don't think Bernie's stance is that he doesn't race though. His philosophy is more "If we do things to help people at the bottom, and black people are disproportionately at the bottom, then we will be helping black people the most."

Theoretically, what he's saying is true. Realistically, we know they always apply changes in a way that doesn't favor us. I don't mind black people pressing Bernie on the matter of giving specific help to our community. I do think it's foolish to pick against the only candidate that genuinely seems to want to help everybody just because he isn't giving you the specific individualized help you want. That's just my opinion though. I'm ok with us fixing the country as a whole first and then focusing on getting the race-specific help we deserve.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
A lot of Bernie's supporters are trash. That's for sure.

I don't think Bernie's stance is that he doesn't race though. His philosophy is more "If we do things to help people at the bottom, and black people are disproportionately at the bottom, then we will be helping black people the most."

Theoretically, what he's saying is true. Realistically, we know they always apply changes in a way that doesn't favor us. I don't mind black people pressing Bernie on the matter of giving specific help to our community. I do think it's foolish to pick against the only candidate that genuinely seems to want to help everybody just because he isn't giving you the specific individualized help you want. That's just my opinion though. I'm ok with us fixing the country as a whole first and then focusing on getting the race-specific help we deserve.
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Bernie sees class as being more of a dividing line than race. In theory he may be right in practice he's wrong because we've repeatedly seen poor white people go against their own self interest just so Black folks won't get something. I agree it's foolish to go against the candidate who genuinely wants to help everybody, but you also can't ignore the reality of how things work for how you want them to work. He's said he operates with the assumption that people aren't racist or bigoted til they prove him otherwise and to be his age and worked in specifically politics as long as he has to hold that naive of a pov is a huge blindspot when trying to sell himself to anybody who ain't white
 
ChicagoFigure said:
To blame it all on racism is a cop out

Like saying the only reason Kamala lost was race/gender
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Idk if you remember but people were literally hanging dolls of Barack Obama as if they were lynching him. From the moment he got elected Republicans were vocal about intended to vote against anything he wanted to do. Did some have issue with his policies? Sure. But the connection to trump's rise in popularity wasn't because people disliked Obama's handling of international affairs. It was because they don't like Black people. The whole thing with trump even started over the birther issue which was racist within itself and being in his feelings over Obama openly joking about it.
 
BlackRain said:
Idk if you remember but people were literally hanging dolls of Barack Obama as if they were lynching him. From the moment he got elected Republicans were vocal about intended to vote against anything he wanted to do. Did some have issue with his policies? Sure. But the connection to trump's rise in popularity wasn't because people disliked Obama's handling of international affairs. It was because they don't like Black people. The whole thing with trump even started over the birther issue which was racist within itself and being in his feelings over Obama openly joking about it.
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ChicagoFigure said:
Those are some of the reasons. Yes there are racists and bigots who didn't want him to win, but I'm not talking about them.
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Y'all are forgetting that a good chunk of people that either voted for Trump or didn't vote at all are because they didn't like Hillary. These include ppl that voted for Obama.
 
ChicagoFigure said:
Y'all are forgetting that a good chunk of people that either voted for Trump or didn't vote at all are because they didn't like Hillary. These include ppl that voted for Obama.
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4.4 million 2012 Obama voters stayed home in 2016 — more than a third of them black​

March 12, 2018More than 7 years ago
According to the analysis, 12 percent of white voters who had backed Obama in 2012 voted for Trump four years later. Eleven percent of black Obama 2012 voters stayed home.
Those are small percentages of the total pool of voters, but it means that the Obama-to-Trump voter pool was overwhelmingly white — and the Obama-to-nonvoting pool disproportionately black.
news.yale.edu

Swing vote ‘trumped’ turnout in 2016 election

A new study concludes that people switching their votes from Democrat to Republican better explains the GOP’s success in 2016 than did increased turnout.
news.yale.edu news.yale.edu
A new study concludes that people switching their votes from Democrat to Republican better explains the GOP’s success in 2016 than did increased turnout.
Apr 21, 2021

“Despite increasing political polarization, a lot of voters aren’t committed partisans and will cast ballots for a Democrat in one election and a Republican in the next,” said Huber, the Forst Family Professor of Political Science in Yale’s Faculty of Arts and Sciences. “Turnout certainly matters — the parties benefit from mobilizing their bases — but our study suggests that swing voters were a bigger factor in 2016.”

"…people switching their votes from Democrat to Republican … explained the GOP’s success in 2016 than did increased turnout by the party’s base…"
 
ChicagoFigure said:
Y'all are forgetting that a good chunk of people that either voted for Trump or didn't vote at all are because they didn't like Hillary. These include ppl that voted for Obama.
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I think you often willfully underplay how much race and racism affects people's thinking in this country. Because your response is coming off very much like "well how could they be racist if they voted for the Black guy?" Voting for Barack Obama wasn't this magical sign of people not being racist like white people love to look back at it as.
 
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