Mase Calls Out Puff For Bad Business & Not Letting Him Buy His Publishing Back

[DOS_patos]

Whats that got to do with anything matey...

Just curious.
I got something happening in London soon.
All abw folk get free entrance.

 

[L3NU]

Ain't shit to spin, business is just that........business

2m hella low for Ma$e publishing. 2m's?????? I'm going thru the thread but I assume Diddy supposed to just give Ma$e his publishing outta the kindness of his heart huh?

Diddy cant have it both ways...trying to lecture other ppl about doing right by black artist and then trying to nickle and dime his own artist that help him build his own fortune

If hes a billionaire then even 2 million is giving it away for free to him

Imagine if you have 100 dollars and then your boy really needs something and you wont sell it to him cuz he didn't have 20 pennies...ppl dont realize how much money a billion is why is he tripping at 0.2% of his net worth?

 

[konceptjones]

I agree and said this, bro... The Bay and Texas have always been known for their grind... Did you read what I typed??? I cited E40, Uncle Luke etc as the exceptions... Schitt didnt Uncle Luke end up buying out the pressing plant??

Again, compared to how many artists/rappers that were out at the time and hussled their tapes not many made that E40, Too Short, Luke money or stardom that life changing money or became more than local/regional stars...

I guess it was different on the East and and LA too where a contract was more sought after than the The Bay and South... In NY I dont think selling tapes borough to borough was a profitable than it was in The Bay or South, it was more mixtapes and radio with the view to getting a deal...

Cats from every region sold tapes out the trunk, even LA and NYC. The main difference between LA and NYC and the rest of the country was that you also had major labels based in those areas, so getting a deal was more or less the visible thing to do 'cause you could literally catch a cab to Def Jam, Capital, Interscope, or what have you.

The point I was making, though, was that the hand-to-hand hustle never really left us. The difference is that cats are getting known by a wider audience off the internet hustle BUT they're really not seeing more money without a label; they just have exposure. These days people expect your music for free or as a part of whatever streaming platform they're subscribed to. Getting someone to buy your album off Bandcamp, iTunes, or Google Play is like pulling teeth now that Spotify and the like are here. These folks have internet celeb status but not the money until they sign with a label. And these days the labels ain't finna sign you unless you have that status whereas before a label would take a chance simply if the A&R thought your music was good.

But not everyone even cared to hit that E40/Master P stride either; many were cool with being regional stars. Cats like 8 Ball and MJG, Three-6, Gangsta Pat, Tela, Esham, Dayton Family... Even ICP... These cats were largely regional for a while. Occasionally they might get a song that makes waves nationwide or even makes them semi-household names (i.e Three 6 Mafia), but they're still successful being regional.

Know what... I had a larger point to make here too, but I lost focus and had to delete a bunch of shit. Hopefully you see where I was going with it.

 

[konceptjones]

I don't know if that was Luke but I'm 100% sure Tech N9ne bought one.

Paris basically built one from the ground up back in the early 90's. Tommy Boy pulled the plug on "Sleeping With The Enemy" so Paris said "fuck it", bought a shitload of high-quality duplicating machines and everything else necessary to manufacture the tapes himself and secured his own distribution channels to get it in the stores.

 

[Knock_Twice]

If Mase didn't have any leverage coming into the deal/negotiation table, It's hard for me to even feel bad for dude. Not sure what the other white man is offering puff for it, puff looking at it from a business stand point vs a moral one. Moral feelings and business practice are like oil and water, them shits don't mix. Having morals never got those that are rich, rich. Having morals is good for Press and your public image, behind closed doors is how you make your empire grow and your grand-kids eat. It's hard to have morals behind closed doors when money is involved a nigga told me back in 97.

I am not sure what Mase and how Mase was moving before he got with Puff, but the shit is like the dope game in a sense.

I'm speaking from Baby and them and No Limit. A nigga/person with money, respect, rep in the streets has a record label, and you'z a 12-18 year old kid, broke, that's trying to get on with me, You have no rights, you can't walk into my house and start moving furniture around. You gotta play by my rules and what all I am willing to offer you for your talents. If I even decide to offer you anything. I think someone made a mention about a bank and giving out a loan to someone, same case. You can't walk into a bank and change their interest rates, terms and conditions. Them folks are trying to make money off their money.

Baby, been doing the shit since 1990 with 1st generation Cash Money, Slim and Baby, been moving records with other artists all through NOLA, and the average fan can't expect a Wayne or Turk to walk into the office of Cash Money and get what they think that they should get. That's not even how the real business world works. Some may think what they should get x, y, and z and to be fair to Baby and P and other CEOs, (those artist should read about what all that they could possible get before doing a meeting to negotiate a regular contract, if you don't know what all you should get, then you can't get mad at the end of the day from not knowing about the business), You really can't get mad if you're coming into the meeting with no leverage, you're thinking that you're the best rapper in the city, that's not it.

Before CMR, Wayne, Turk, Lil Derrick, BG, had no buzz in the city per say, outside of school, and as a CEO, looking at that, I'm not going to give you a big ass deal off jump, I'm going to give you what I think is fair to me and my interest on what I think I will make the most money off of without me going in the RED, since I am the one investing in you. Present you a 24k-36k record contract and that's it. It's your job as an artist to see if that's fair to you and to see if you are getting all of the money that you should get from outside things, if it's not fair, go elsewhere. But in the city NOLA, you see that CMR is the hottest record label, you hear the artists on the label on the radio, 24/7, you hear the songs at the HS/middle school dances, teen clubs, night clubs, ect. So what you go do as a 14 year old who has nothing?? You wanna get on.

You see me as the CEO, with the cars, name in the streets, etc, You think you go walk into my office and change my mind on how I wanna spend my money?? Yeah Ok, I don't need you, I can find another nigga in the city to sign this contract and give him that same clout that my current artists have now.

If I'm the CEO, I'm doing just that as what Baby did and P did/thought, give them what I think that they should get or present them with something that they could possible make by fucking with me by looking into what they brought to the table.

The one with the most money sets the terms and conditions. Call it what you want, but that's how the world works, unless you just a genuine ass nigga that's out to throw away money. These dudes are business minded folks first and foremost

Baby, big tymer in the city, Wayne, BG, Turk, Lil Derrick, Juvie, looking for a come up, see other Cash Money artists getting shine, so how in the world would you even come at a Baby or Slim with YOUR terms and conditions when you have no leverage coming into the situation. You wanna be down with the team, well these are the rules and conditions. Juvie had a little more leverage than the rest of them, because he actually had a decent job working in a plant and he had a local buzz around the city, so he told Slim and Prime, that they had to pay him what he was making at his job in order for him to be fully committed on the label.

 

[Chicity]

Diddy cant have it both ways...trying to lecture other ppl about doing right by black artist and then trying to nickle and dime his own artist that help him build his own fortune

If hes a billionaire then even 2 million is giving it away for free to him

Imagine if you have 100 dollars and then your boy really needs something and you wont sell it to him cuz he didn't have 20 pennies...ppl dont realize how much money a billion is why is he tripping at 0.2% of his net worth?

Nah man, I'm not buying it. There WERE boys, they not boys now.

The publishing has a worth. Either Ma$e got the money or he don't. He didn't tell him to kick rocks, simply to match the offer that was on the table. Instead Ma$e started crying woe is me, I was jerked as a youngin.

Smh

 

[konceptjones]

Ma$e not asking him to sell it for $2 million he's simply asking Puff to help him show him what he needs to be able to biy his publishing and if he's going go to talk about how white labels jerk artists why doesn't he practice what he preaches and help his own kind. Ma$e had to explain to those unfamiliar to him why he's asking for help to give you context as to how he got into the mess in the first place. If Diddy is a boss he will have no issue at the very least to assist him or put him on the right track. If Ma$e has $2 million for that he likely has more money to spend if he has to.

Mase signed over his pubs for $20k. Not even the price of a decent new car when he got put on. This goes more towards what I said about walking in with your eyes closed and getting mad 'cause you fell in a hole. All he had to do was open his mouth and ask someone "what is publishing and is it worth it to give it up for $20K?". Not one MC in his vicinity would have told him to take that deal. Even if the album comes out and it's a dud today, you can still leverage that shit later on down the line and make some money off of it.

 

[DOS_patos]

I always wanted to know how that lox puffy thing worked.

 

[Chicity]

Ma$e not asking him to sell it for $2 million he's simply asking Puff to help him show him what he needs to be able to biy his publishing and if he's going go to talk about how white labels jerk artists why doesn't he practice what he preaches and help his own kind. Ma$e had to explain to those unfamiliar to him why he's asking for help to give you context as to how he got into the mess in the first place. If Diddy is a boss he will have no issue at the very least to assist him or put him on the right track. If Ma$e has $2 million for that he likely has more money to spend if he has to.

I didn't see nothing about being showed the way b

I saw a lot of crying wrapped around....I tried to buy it for 2mil in cash. Then he pulled the race card.

I fucks with both of them but Diddy ain't wrong for telling him to get his money up.

 

[konceptjones]

I always wanted to know how that lox puffy thing worked.

they threatened to drop a fridge on his head.

 

[DOS_patos]

they threatened to drop a fridge on his head.

An that worked?

Had to be something else

 

[SeaSnake]

And the vast overwhelming majority of that 100 million plus were white people who were looking for safe, non threatening, conformist ass negroes who would skin, grin, smile, show their teeth and dance on command. Puff and Mase didn't hesitate to do as they were told.

Miss me with that fag ass, finger snapping, white folks approved, corny nigga, commercialized, crossover bullshithit.

Real dudes never participated in this fuck shit. You just exposed yourself.

White folks were listening to Mase and Diddy? Lil Kim too?

 

[Knock_Twice]

Yo but Master P had barbers going gold and he didn't keep their masters or fuck them outta money. He never had to. He brought over Snoop from Death Row, and Snoop said he was getting more money with P than with Death Row and not only that he let him keep his masters AND he let Snoop leave when he wanted to. That's good business.

I think the adage is to be objective and not emotional in business but operate from a standpoint of ethics. Every major company has a standard of ethics they need to adhere to or else you won't do business with them. If you found out McDonald's or Burger King didnt give a fuck and was using the lowest grade of water or didnt wash/cover their hands to prepare food, you wouldn't eat there.

It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and 5 minutes to destroy one. Notice how Puff was never able to sign bigger established artists who were looking to renegotiate with their labels ? It was always new artists trying to get into the game because they'd be oblivious to his bullshit. He was never considered because people knew how he moved. Jay-Z is able to sign Meek Mill, Fabolous, Rihanna, Shakira, Big Sean, DJ Khaled, or manage them because he's build a good reputation and does right by his artists. You wouldn't sign to Puffy but if Jay-Z or Master P or Top from TDE approached you I bet you'd give them the time of day and not Puffy.

And Wayne left Cash Money and is putting out even better music. Who else does Birdman have to carry his label ? All he had to do was do right by Wayne and he'd still have Wayne and Drake signed. Wayne had to sue him for money HE made and was entitled to.

Master P also gave them options in their contract, the contract was structured on the amount of albums you sold, you can get x amount of money for x amount of albums sold, and give up a % of your pub/masters or you can hold out on getting the money of a gold/platinum or 300k selling album before it sold (when it didn't sell that amount yet) or you can keep your masters and get paid on what your album will sell. He didn't fuck them out of money because he set up the contract for them to gamble on themselves. It was a contract setup in that format/premise, that's why you don't hear folks shitting on Master P. He gave them an options and allowed them to see what they could possible make going this route vs going this route.
Serv-On said he gave you 250k-500k up front and when you turned your album or when your album was released you got another 400-600k and you kept your masters. This was in 97- early 98 before they blow up. 2nd album, your funding would increase from what you sold off the first album.

As far as Snoop, Snoop had leverage already, he was a known superstar before NL, he had something to bring to the table vs a dude coming outta his mama house at 14 or 17, Snoop could negotiate something in which could favor him, and plus P knew from jump that he could make money off from investing in Snoop. He paid an extra 300k to get Snoop, plus brought back his Masters from Suge. Now did P just str8 off give Snoop's his masters off the strength of love, he may have, I would guess and say that he made Snoop buy his Masters back from him or P took a % more off from album sells to recoup that money he had invested, but not at some crazy price. Maybe presented that same contract structure with Snoop like he did all the rest of his other artists on NL.

What you are saying makes sense, good business practice. I am just looking at it in the eyes of the CEO and the guy with the most money.

 

[DOS_patos]

Master P also gave them options in their contract, the contract was structured on the amount of albums you sold, you can get x amount of money for x amount of albums sold, and give up a % of your pub/masters or you can hold out on getting the money of a gold/platinum or 300k selling album before it sold (when it didn't sell that amount yet) or you can keep your masters and get paid on what your album will sell. He didn't fuck them out of money because he set up the contract for them to gamble on themselves. It was a contract setup in that format/premise, that's why you don't hear folks shitting on Master P. He gave them an options and allowed them to see what they could possible make going this route vs going this route.
Serv-On said he gave you 250k-500k up front and when you turned your album or when your album was released you got another 400-600k and you kept your masters. This was in 97- early 98 before they blow up. 2nd album, your funding would increase from what you sold off the first album.

As far as Snoop, Snoop had leverage already, he was a known superstar before NL, he had something to bring to the table vs a dude coming outta his mama house at 14 or 17, Snoop could negotiate something in which could favor him, and plus P knew from jump that he could make money off from investing in Snoop. He paid an extra 300k to get Snoop, plus brought back his Masters from Suge. Now did P just str8 off give Snoop's his masters off the strength of love, he may have, I would guess and say that he made Snoop buy his Masters back from him or P took a % more off from album sells to recoup that money he had invested, but not at some crazy price. Maybe presented that same contract structure with Snoop like he did all the rest of his other artists on NL.

What you are saying makes sense, good business practice. I am just looking at it in the eyes of the CEO and the guy with the most money.

Anyone ask Ricki how his master p football contract work out?

 

[Elzo69Renaissance]

An that worked?

Had to be something else

The lox used to carry ice picks and shit lol Puffy had a road to Damascus moment

 

[SeaSnake]

Ain't shit to spin, business is just that........business

2m hella low for Ma$e publishing. 2m's?????? I'm going thru the thread but I assume Diddy supposed to just give Ma$e his publishing outta the kindness of his heart huh?

yes but can’t expect morals in business

 

[Knock_Twice]

Anyone ask Ricki how his master p football contract work out?

Ricky spoke on it and from the last thing I heard about it, Ricky didn't have any ill feelings about it. Have you read the contract and what it all had in it and compared to what Ricky would have gotten from what Tom Benson offered him coming out of the draft??

 

[SeaSnake]

I didn't see nothing about being showed the way b

I saw a lot of crying wrapped around....I tried to buy it for 2mil in cash. Then he pulled the race card.

I fucks with both of them but Diddy ain't wrong for telling him to get his money up.

But ain’t it hypocritical to complain about white folks playing fair when he do the same shit they do. Like a dope boy talking bout crooked cops

 

[Chicity]

But ain’t it hypocritical to complain about white folks playing fair when he do the same shit they do. Like a dope boy talking bout crooked cops

What you want Puff to do? Go back in time and rewrite the contract?

Today Ma$e trying to lowball for his publishing and using you niggas that hate Puff to get it.

Niggas I tell ya

 

[Inori]

What you want Puff to do? Go back in time and rewrite the contract?

Today Ma$e trying to lowball for his publishing and using you niggas that hate Puff to get it.

Niggas I tell ya

So the expectation from him is for white folks in positions of power to rectify their shit... but him being in a position of power himself... there is no expectation for him to rectify his shit?

I don't really have a dog in this fight I'm just trying to see what stance ur taking exactly