When is it okay to open up to your woman?

[Playmaker88]

All in all a big problem we have is people who make no investments in being anything more than being a taker, talker and a toxin who stand out in front of many conversations and have an undue influence

 

[Swabbie]

No because it's calling what it is. And we all have insecurities. We also all have to navigate through them and how they affect the choices you make. And if a person decides that they can choose to get into a relationship with and potentially spend their lives with someone they don't feel comfortable opening up to then that is a major insecurity to work on because it's not grounds for a healthy relationship. It's not shaming, it's calling it what it is.

There's also no absolutism to this idea. You shouldn't just trust any and everyone to be open to. But again if you're gonna invest time, energy and emotions into building a relationship with a person then being vulnerable is a part of that. And if a person feels they can't be vulnerable with who they've chosen to live their life with then that's a problem

Yeah, I'd agree *if* there wasn't a very explicit acknowledgement of the reactions men who are emotionally open receive. I mean, no one here is actually denying the *why* of it. Certainly the criticisms should be directed at the negative reactions given to these type of men.

 

[AP3.0]

They are speaking from lived experience. It isn't insecurity but self-preservation, no? Acknowledging that the reason being their keeping their emotions to themselves shouldn't lead the criticism of the person for not being in a more enlightened state of emotional being.

I guess the thing I want people to take away from my position is that, it is ok to cry in front of women. You just might not be with a woman that creates a space for you to do so

Ditch her and keep it moving

 

[5th Letter]

There are exceptions for when it’s okay to cry in front of her. I’ll let y’all figure it out…

 

[BlackRain]

Yeah, I'd agree *if* there wasn't a very explicit acknowledgement of the reactions men who are emotionally open receive. I mean, no one here is actually denying the *why* of it. Certainly the criticisms should be directed at the negative reactions given to these type of men.

Because there is no 1 "why". Is some of it because some women are assholes? Yes. Is some of it because some men think they can't open up to anyone based on some bad experiences? Yes.

But here's the thing...people pick and choose which negative experiences they allow to cloud their vision all the time. Why intentionally pick one that also has such a large determination on a relationship that will potentially affect the rest of your life? I'm not saying be some naive person who opens up to everyone. But I am saying that those experiences should be used to become better at scoping people out as opposed to writing them off altogether. Because if that's the case then everybody should be alone because we all have the capacity to be the villain in somebody's story.

 

[Swabbie]

I guess the thing I want people to take away from my position is that, it is ok to cry in front of women. You just might not be with a woman that creates a space for you to do so

Ditch her and keep it moving

I fully respect that and agree.

 

[PhenomTheMac]

Yeah, I'd agree *if* there wasn't a very explicit acknowledgement of the reactions men who are emotionally open receive. I mean, no one here is actually denying the *why* of it. Certainly the criticisms should be directed at the negative reactions given to these type of men.

Women have put up with generations of men who scream at them, cuss them out, beat on them, drag them, cheat on them, et al. Somehow, there are people who think that behavior is acceptable, or defensible, or otherwise expected because boys will be boys. But *crying* is where the line is drawn??

There's a lot of investment in glorifying toxic behaviors. And as a consequence normal and mundane behaviors are portrayed as abnormal or undesirable. We should all seek more genuine relationships that allow us to be ourselves warts and all, and not relationships that force us to put on a facade.

 

[BlackRain]

There's also just the pure human aspect of if you see someone crying and your immediate thought is anything related to how soft they are or how less masculine a man is instead of thinking to offer them comfort...then you're probably part of the problem.

 

[Swabbie]

Women have put up with generations of men who scream at them, cuss them out, beat on them, drag them, cheat on them, et al. Somehow, there are people who think that behavior is acceptable, or defensible, or otherwise expected because boys will be boys. But *crying* is where the line is drawn??

There's a lot of investment in glorifying toxic behaviors. And as a consequence normal and mundane behaviors are portrayed as abnormal or undesirable. We should all seek more genuine relationships that allow us to be ourselves warts and all, and not relationships that force us to put on a facade.

I don't know the point you are trying to make or it's relation to anything I've said. Domestic abuse is bad, has always been bad, will always be bad.

 

[Swabbie]

Because there is no 1 "why". Is some of it because some women are assholes? Yes. Is some of it because some men think they can't open up to anyone based on some bad experiences? Yes.

But here's the thing...people pick and choose which negative experiences they allow to cloud their vision all the time. Why intentionally pick one that also has such a large determination on a relationship that will potentially affect the rest of your life? I'm not saying be some naive person who opens up to everyone. But I am saying that those experiences should be used to become better at scoping people out as opposed to writing them off altogether. Because if that's the case then everybody should be alone because we all have the capacity to be the villain in somebody's story.

So far as I can tell it's some variation of "I don't open up to women because they'll lose respect for me"? So I'd say it's pretty much one why. If that is what you are being told, it sort of confuses me that the reaction would be... the exact same thing these women in these men's lives do - debase them.

And it's not intentionally picking any one thing, it's learning from life. You open up, get shit on, don't want to open up again. The problem in that equation isn't the hurt person, it's the person who did the hurting. Again, no one is denying that these sort of broads do exist and exist in such numbers that the idea of opening up to women being a recipe for disaster is widely known and understood and many men have first person experience with emotional moments being used against them by said women.

tl;dr the men aren't the problem here.

 

[PhenomTheMac]

I don't know the point you are trying to make or it's relation to anything I've said. Domestic abuse is bad, has always been bad, will always be bad.

The point is this has been passed down as a more acceptable behavior than crying. That a woman is more likely to accept such behavior than if a man were to be vulnerable. 'A man is just being a man if he cheats but he better not be sad about it when he does it' type of thinking.

 

[BlackRain]

So far as I can tell it's some variation of "I don't open up to women because they'll lose respect for me"? So I'd say it's pretty much one why. If that is what you are being told, it sort of confuses me that the reaction would be... the exact same thing these women in these men's lives do - debase them.

It's not debasing to tell somebody they need to work on some shit and stop making a broad generalization. Especially in an area that ultimately hurts them more than anything else. If anything it's telling them that what they think isn't true and there actually is good out there. It'd be worse to give them confirmation bias and agree with them. Especially when that confirmation comes from sources that really shouldn't be trusted or looked to. I mean who the fuck is going to K Michelle for relationship advice?

That's also another problem people have. They'll ignore shit that directly contradicts their pov that could force them to change but embrace anything that confirms it so they can keep moving the way they move. That's setting yourself up for failure

 

[Swabbie]

The point is this has been passed down as a more acceptable behavior than crying. That a woman is more likely to accept such behavior than if a man were to be vulnerable. 'A man is just being a man if he cheats but he better not be sad about it when he does it' type of thinking.

Yeah, I'm still not catching what you are throwing here. If a man says he fears being vulnerable to women because women don't respect men who are vulnerable, I'm unsure how this turns in to the women being victims and having to accept "such behavior".

 

[Swabbie]

It's not debasing to tell somebody they need to work on some shit and stop making a broad generalization. Especially in an area that ultimately hurts them more than anything else. If anything it's telling them that what they think isn't true and there actually is good out there. It'd be worse to give them confirmation bias and agree with them. Especially when that confirmation comes from sources that really shouldn't be trusted or looked to. I mean who the fuck is going to K Michelle for relationship advice?

That's also another problem people have. They'll ignore shit that directly contradicts their pov that could force them to change but embrace anything that confirms it so they can keep moving the way they move. That's setting yourself up for failure

But it's not K. Michelle. It's women in these guys' lives. I mean, page 1 of this thread has dudes saying how they did it and had it thrown back in their faces. Seems like a lot a heat is being had for the dudes here which is the only thing I've found odd. Like men are the problem in that particular equation.

If everyone finds it more palatable, the lack of empathy isn't sexed. No one cares about your problems or emotions and the vast majority of people aren't built to be a shoulder to cry on. Honestly, you should really work on meditation or get in the gym when your emotions are running wild.

 

[PhenomTheMac]

Yeah, I'm still not catching what you are throwing here. If a man says he fears being vulnerable to women because women don't respect men who are vulnerable, I'm unsure how this turns in to the women being victims and having to accept "such behavior".

If a man thinks that being vulnerable with a woman will cause her to lose respect for him.

And that same man chests, beats, or lies to women without a care in the world. Then he clearly thinks those behaviors won't cause her to lose respect for him. And since this is theoretically a hip hop first and foremost we are all familiar that this way of thinking is prevalent. And if you don't, then turn on the radio.

Here, a visual aid:



^ Acceptable



^ Not acceptable.

People who think like *this* do not have valuable opinions. And they are certainly not people to have relationships with. But if you've found yourself having made that mistake, chalk it up to the game and start moving in better circles.

 

[BlackRain]

But it's not K. Michelle. It's women in these guys' lives. I mean, page 1 of this thread has dudes saying how they did it and had it thrown back in their faces. Seems like a lot a heat is being had for the dudes here which is the only thing I've found odd. Like men are the problem in that particular equation.

If everyone finds it more palatable, the lack of empathy isn't sexed. No one cares about your problems or emotions and the vast majority of people aren't built to be a shoulder to cry on. Honestly, you should really work on meditation or get in the gym when your emotions are running wild.

The only heat is because it's a broad generalization. Nobody is disputing that the shit happens. But if people gonna use 1 or 2 incidents of people being shitty humans to avoid interacting in certain ways then that same logic can be extended to anything but it's not. People give grace to folks all the time for more serious matters. And specific to relationships a huge and common complaint amongst men, and rightfully so in some instances, is dealing with a woman who is holding her ex or multiple exes behavior against the new man. And people agree that's wrong. So why should it be given a pass in another instance for a man to hold his new lady at fault for some shit the last woman did wrong?

 

[Swabbie]

If a man thinks that being vulnerable with a woman will cause her to lose respect for him.

And that same man chests, beats, or lies to women without a care in the world. Then he clearly thinks those behaviors won't cause her to lose respect for him. And since this is theoretically a hip hop first and foremost we are all familiar that this way of thinking is prevalent. And if you don't, then turn on the radio.

Here, a visual aid:

View attachment 1294601

^ Acceptable

View attachment 1294602

^ Not acceptable.

People who think like *this* do not have valuable opinions. And they are certainly not people to have relationships with. But if you've found yourself having made that mistake, chalk it up to the game and start moving in better circles.

Forgive me man, I'm not trying to be thick. I was just struggling to see the connection between anything I was saying to things like DV and cheating.

 

[Swabbie]

The only heat is because it's a broad generalization. Nobody is disputing that the shit happens. But if people gonna use 1 or 2 incidents of people being shitty humans to avoid interacting in certain ways then that same logic can be extended to anything but it's not. People give grace to folks all the time for more serious matters. And specific to relationships a huge and common complaint amongst men, and rightfully so in some instances, is dealing with a woman who is holding her ex or multiple exes behavior against the new man. And people agree that's wrong. So why should it be given a pass in another instance for a man to hold his new lady at fault for some shit the last woman did wrong?

I'm understanding where you are coming from but I think the disconnect is that it isn't as simple as 1 or 2 incidents. In some way or another, most of us have grown up with women having fairly "toxically masculine" ideals for men. It's not just relationships, it's in the homes growing up. It's prevalent, especially in the black community. My stance is this doesn't seem like one of those moments where we are free and clear to go "rah, rah, men ain't shit". The idea that women respect emotional men less wasn't pulled out of some red pill dude's ass, the lot of us generally understands that to be the case in the environments we grew up in.

I'm certainly with you on wanting for people to be able to grow past bad experiences. I disagree that calling people fragile and insecure is the best way to go about it. If being talked down to by women makes a lot of men close themselves off emotionally, why would similarly talking down to them open them up to your way of thinking?

 

[BlackRain]

I'm understanding where you are coming from but I think the disconnect is that it isn't as simple as 1 or 2 incidents. In some way or another, most of us have grown up with women having fairly "toxically masculine" ideals for men. It's not just relationships, it's in the homes growing up. It's prevalent, especially in the black community. My stance is this doesn't seem like one of those moments where we are free and clear to go "rah, rah, men ain't shit". The idea that women respect emotional men less wasn't pulled out of some red pill dude's ass, the lot of us generally understands that to be the case in the environments we grew up in.

I'm certainly with you on wanting for people to be able to grow past bad experiences. I disagree that calling people fragile and insecure is the best way to go about it. If being talked down to by women makes a lot of men close themselves off emotionally, why would similarly talking down to them open them up to your way of thinking?

It's all about context. Calling something what it is isn't always inherently an attempt to shit on them. That's why I said we all have insecurities. It's part of life. It's not always a bad thing. But it can become bad when you allow those insecurities to control how you move and interact with people to your detriment.

 

[Swabbie]

It's all about context. Calling something what it is isn't always inherently an attempt to shit on them. That's why I said we all have insecurities. It's part of life. It's not always a bad thing. But it can become bad when you allow those insecurities to control how you move and interact with people to your detriment.

Maybe choose your words wiser. I doubt many people like being called fragile and insecure, especially with respect to something that they are doing to protect their mental health. Being open with someone only to have them use it against you is painful, extremely so in some cases. This particular grievance is one that should be approached with empathy, which I don't think your strategy employs.