OPINION The Wire - A Hindsight Discussion

PhenomTheMac said:
I mean yeah that's how they painted it from Stringer's point of view. That he was backed into a corner and forced to make moves. But, the show goes on to show that Avon would have found a way forward had Stringer waited.

He eventually got a line to the Greek while inside. And short of that, Brother Mouzoune was his line to New York, a relationship that would ultimately lead to Stringer's demise.

Stringer's disloyalty is shown as a straight line to his death. Its a point that gets reiterated over and again as the partnership deteriorates (told you about playing those away games, the game is the game, the king stays the king). Ultimately Avon -- the king -- remains as such while the game resets around him, and Strigner

-- the queen-- is able to be cornered and captured by two pieces.
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The thing about the bolded is that he actually didn't.


Which forced Stringer to act when he did if he was gonna have any chance of saving the business.


Also, Avon didn't actually have a line to the Greek.


At least not directly.


He had a line to Sergei.......who had a line to the Greek.


Not exactly the same thing.


Also have to keep in mind that Avon didn't make that connection until he got to jail.


If he was still out on the street, he would've never made a connection to the Greek because the Greek only fucked with Prop Joe up until Marlo killed him..


The only thing Stringer was disloyal about was killing D'Angelo and fucking his babymama.


Everything else he did was for the good of the business.


Funny because.......when you think about it...... the main reason Stringer really wanted Avon locked up was because he clowned him for getting played by Clay Davis.


That's the only time he really got in his feelings and took things personal.


 
deadeye said:
The thing about the bolded is that he actually didn't.


Which forced Stringer to act when he did if he was gonna have any chance of saving the business.


Also, Avon didn't actually have a line to the Greek.


At least not directly.


He had a line to Sergei.......who had a line to the Greek.


Not exactly the same thing.


Also have to keep in mind that Avon didn't make that connection until he got to jail.


If he was still out on the street, he would've never made a connection to the Greek because the Greek only fucked with Prop Joe up until Marlo killed him..


The only thing Stringer was disloyal about was killing D'Angelo and fucking his babymama.


Everything else he did was for the good of the business.


Funny because.......when you think about it...... the main reason Stringer really wanted Avon locked up was because he clowned him for getting played by Clay Davis.


That's the only time he really got in his feelings and took things personal.


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It's right there. The convo is Avon telling Stringer the real and that Avon would set things right once he was out.

Stringer is disloyal about the D'Angelo shit, the co-op shit, running to the feds, setting mouzone and omar against each other and lying about it,.

The thing about Stringer is he couldn't abide by the rules he himself set out. Oh, so we gonna run this shit like an organization? Cool. But wait, Poot is too ignornant to hold the floor. Oh, but wait I got played in business so now we need to kill a state senator. Now I gotta run to the feds and get my man's locked up.

Avon plays the game fair every single time. Told the ref that there ain't no such thing as a re-do, the game is the game. Like nah, we can hit the rewatch whenever, cause if you really watch it there is 0 ambuguity about it. The show makes it blantantly obvious. His line with the greeks is what gets Marlo and eventually Slim Charles a seat at the table, so its a pretty direct line. Avon wouldn't have needed the greek if he wasn't inside cause he unlinke Stringer could have secured them another connect. But Avon being Avon was always gonna land on his feet rather inside or out, which is what he did. Stringer had his run of it and promptly ran everything into the ground, getting himself killed in the process.
 
Avon established a strong line with the Greek in jail, cuz Avon executed his shit in the old ways.

That's why he had a line to New York
That's why he became a spokesperson for Sergei inside


They all respected the way he handled his business.

Avon could have EASILY taken over the Greek connect thru the co-op if he had trusted stringer and not called mouzone.

Avon and prop joe could organize a basketball game... You don't think they could have sat at the same table?

And if Avon would have pulled the same move to take Joe out.... The Greeks liked the way he moved. They respected his reputation. He still would have been good.

Avon caused the fall of his empire by not backing stringer move to work with prop Joe

Joe would never have been able to fight Avon when he got out. And Avon with a seat at the co-op is game set match.

But his pride stood in the way
 
Everybody wasnt inherently selfish on the criminal side of things on the show. Pride time and time again got in the way of business.

Marlo made so much noise in a short amount of time with his business strategy while Avon always kept it cool by the waters. But i always respected Marlo’s ambition - all this conversation about Avon made me thinking he was always a 10 cent on the dollar dude. Stringer wanted more money than that, and Marlo evolved from that point
 
I think Marlo represented the problem you see with younger generations in general. They have the smarts, power,, ability to push as far as they want but they don't understand all the different angles of the game. Marlo lost in the end because he thought the hardest nigga on the block would always win, but that wasn't the case.
 
Duwop said:
Avon established a strong line with the Greek in jail, cuz Avon executed his shit in the old ways.

That's why he had a line to New York
That's why he became a spokesperson for Sergei inside


They all respected the way he handled his business.

Avon could have EASILY taken over the Greek connect thru the co-op if he had trusted stringer and not called mouzone.

Avon and prop joe could organize a basketball game... You don't think they could have sat at the same table?

And if Avon would have pulled the same move to take Joe out.... The Greeks liked the way he moved. They respected his reputation. He still would have been good.

Avon caused the fall of his empire by not backing stringer move to work with prop Joe

Joe would never have been able to fight Avon when he got out. And Avon with a seat at the co-op is game set match.

But his pride stood in the way
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From reddit:

He did it because he knew that, by giving Marlo access to the Greeks, he would in effect be putting Marlo on Prop Joe. It might seem like Marlo put more of a hurt on Avon than Joe did (and that may be true) but when we look back... 1) Joe put Omar on Avon's pager in S1, nearly getting him killed; 2) Joe waited until Avon got locked up to move in on Stringer and the towers via the co-op proposition; 3) Joe came up with the idea for Stringer to put Omar on Brother Mouzone, effectively getting Stringer killed. While it came off as stubbornness on the first watch, in retrospect I think Avon was actually right not to trust Joe, and was probably aware of some or all of the ways listed above that Joe was scheming to move in on his piece of the pie. The real rivalry was always Eastside-Westside, Joe vs. Avon.
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Every move Joe made, made him stronger and B&B weaker. He even let Marlo into the co-op, setting the table for Marlo to take the crown. Avon was right not to fuck with them Eastside bitches and give up their territory.

The closest thing I can think of to 'proof' of this possibly far-fetched theory: the 100k fee for lining Marlo up with Sergei was way too low a price for the connect. The only rationale I've seen that made sense is that Joe won 100k off Avon when he doubled the stakes before bringing in a second ringer at the Eastside-Westside ball game (the same episode in which Joe gave Omar Avon's pager #). Avon was recuping that loss and getting Joe hit in one move. When it all shook out, Slim Charles ended up with the connect. Slim is likely still loyal to Avon and never wanted to be the king, meaning when Avon gets out, he's right back on top. Personally, I don't think there's any way Avon could have known it would go that way; but I think he correctly figured that Marlo would have a harder time keeping the crown that Joe, and that Joe needed to get got if Avon was to truly run the Baltimore drug trade.
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Avon got Prop hit when he gave up the connect to Marlo, gambling correctly that Marlo was too abrasive to last long.

And wouldn't you know it by the end of the show, Stringer is dead, Joe is dead, Marlo is out the game and a nobody in the streets, all the while Charles is keeping Avons seat warm. The king stays the king.
 
Like Stringer didn't get killed by accident. It was a direct result of his own actions, at the hands of the 2 people he fucked over.

Avon didn't recover the crown by accident either. The way that he played the game allowed him to be something of an "authority figure" that gave him influence.

That influence got Stringer popped (regrettably as it was for Avon), Joe popped (a win for him cause that was his biggest competitor), and gave Marlo enough rope to hang himself. All that and he got to install a figurehead to run the show in his stead, who most importantly after Stringer's act of disloyalty was already shown to be down to run it the way Avon thought best.
 
And given how Baltimore is... Avon be coming home right now in his 50's...

Or with his pull they would have gotten him out during the pandemic
 
PhenomTheMac said:


It's right there. The convo is Avon telling Stringer the real and that Avon would set things right once he was out.
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Bruh the part of the clip where it starts, the damage had already been done with String/Omar/Brother.

Like @deadeye said had Avon given String that speech BEFORE he called Brother. They'd probably would still be running the Westside.
 
Revolver Ocelot said:
Bruh the part of the clip where it starts, the damage had already been done with String/Omar/Brother.
Like @deadeye said had Avon given String that speech BEFORE he called Brother. They'd probably would still be running the Westside.
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