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TheNightKing said:
You're proving my point though. When someone says something that favors the Dems, that person's intent is seen as positive. When they don't, their intent is negative. Same with Repubs.

So do they intend to help or hurt one side or another? Or is their intent truly objectivity?

If it's truly objectivity, why not believe them regardless of who the statements favor?

Could he not be telling the truth about Barr? He's been working closer with him than anyone on this. When he appointed Mueller Dems cheered him, repubs hated him. When he gave testimony in Congress Dems went easy and repubs went hard. Now that he backs Barr's handling of the report, the sides switch.

Always be weary of people who only favor one side or another, even those who always favor your side. Not you specifically, generally speaking.
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You are trying to make this political when it isn’t at all.

Let’s break it down.

I’ll start with Rosenstein’s statement.


“He’s being as forthcoming as he can, and so this notion that he’s trying to mislead people, I think is just completely bizarre,”


Given the FACTS and what we know, Do you believe this is a fair statement?

Why or why not?
 
Peace_79 said:
You are trying to make this political when it isn’t at all.

Let’s break it down.

I’ll start with Rosenstein’s statement.


“He’s being as forthcoming as he can, and so this notion that he’s trying to mislead people, I think is just completely bizarre,”


Given the FACTS and what we know, Do you believe this is a fair statement?

Why or why not?
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What are the facts? No one knows for sure why Barr put out the four page letter and is going to give a redacted report. I'm not arrogant enough to think I know better than the man working with him on it. A man for all intents and purposes hasn't played political games and has operated in what seems like an objective manner. If it was Hannity or Giuliani, I'd view that statement a lot differently.

And show me facts that aren't just media reports based on people they've spoken to. Facts that are corroborated by more than just hearsay.

The fact that people treat hearsay as fact is another issue of mine, but that's an argument for another day.
 
TheNightKing said:
What are the facts? No one knows for sure why Barr put out the four page letter and is going to give a redacted report. I'm not arrogant enough to think I know better than the man working with him on it. A man for all intents and purposes hasn't played political games and has operated in what seems like an objective manner. If it was Hannity or Giuliani, I'd view that statement a lot differently.

And show me facts that aren't just media reports based on people they've spoken to. Facts that are corroborated by more than just hearsay.

The fact that people treat hearsay as fact is another issue of mine, but that's an argument for another day.
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Barr and Rosenstein are not the single source of truth on the appropriateness of their OWN actions. Think about it - that’s kind of absurd. We don’t have to ask them and simply trust their explanation of their own intent ...

This isn’t the first special report or potential impeachment.

There are LAWS, and norms that govern this process and experienced participants; literally hundreds of attorneys and government officials - Republicans, Democrat, Independent - who have done this before and take extreme issue with how Barr has conducted himself. Muller’s own team placed their respective law licenses in jeopardy to speak out on how Barr’s actions misrepresented their work.

Why do you hold Rosenstien’s words in higher esteem that the very people who carried out this investigation.

We haven’t even gotten into the unambiguous merit of the man’s behavior ....
 
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Barr should have never been trusted . His motivation were clear. He ran interference before and tipped his hand then and when he wrote more pages throwing water on the investigation than when he released his "summary"
 
Peace_79 said:
Barr and Rosenstein are not the single source of truth on the appropriateness of their OWN actions. Think about it - that’s kind of absurd. We don’t have to ask them and simply trust their explanation of their own intent ...

This isn’t the first special report or potential impeachment.

There are LAWS, and norms that govern this process and experienced participants; literally hundreds of attorneys and government officials - Republicans, Democrat, Independent - who have done this before and take extreme issue with how Barr has conducted himself. Muller’s own team placed their respective law licenses in jeopardy to speak out on how Barr’s actions misrepresented their work.

Why do you hold Rosenstien’s words in higher esteem that the very people who carried out this investigation.

We haven’t even gotten into the unambiguous merit of the man’s behavior ....
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We've gotten to the point where it seems like I'm defending Barr and Rosenstein when I'm not. Would I tend to take Rosenstein's word over people from Mueller's team that haven't spoken out publicly? Yes. If Mueller or someone from his team speaks publicly, that's a different story.

I'm simply saying people either think someone's credible or not regardless of their stance. Not only when their stance benefits their side.

Rosenstein was credible when it benefited the Dems, now he's not.

Republicans do the same thing and I'm not with it when either side does it.
 
TheNightKing said:
We've gotten to the point where it seems like I'm defending Barr and Rosenstein when I'm not. Would I tend to take Rosenstein's word over people from Mueller's team that haven't spoken out publicly? Yes. If Mueller or someone from his team speaks publicly, that's a different story.

I'm simply saying people either think someone's credible or not regardless of their stance. Not only when their stance benefits their side.

Rosenstein was credible when it benefited the Dems, now he's not.

Republicans do the same thing and I'm not with it when either side does it.
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Yeah - you’re making a point that isn’t applicable to this conversation.

I don’t care how credible you or anyone else finds Rosenstein. I’m stating that what he said is completely false by any objective standard. Period. This is not the purely partisan issue that you are trying to make it. Several Republicans have spoken out about this.

Barr HAS NOT been competeley forthcoming in his actions.

Someone characterizing Barr’s actions as misleading is not “bizarre”; it is a responsible assessment of the facts.

Let me know if you are having trouble coming to that conclusion, and I can help you out.



I don’t care if Muller, Obama, or Mother Theresa made that statement - they would be just as wrong.

Their respective knowledge of the situation, motivation, and credibility are separate conversations altogether.
 
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https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/...ump-broadcasts-footage-of-9-11-to-attack-omar

GOP Silent After Trump Tweets Footage Of 9/11 Attacks To Target Ilhan Omar

No Republican members of Congress have objected to President Donald Trump tweeting footage of the September 11, 2001 attacks Friday night in order to target Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN).

Interspersed with footage of the attacks, Trump’s Twitter post showed an edited version of Omar’s remarks at a banquet for the Council on American-Islamic Relations of Greater Los Angeles last month.

During the speech, Omar lamented bigotry against American Muslims: “For far too long we have lived with the discomfort of being a second-class citizen and, frankly, I’m tired of it, and every single Muslim in this country should be tired of it. CAIR was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties.” (In fact, CAIR was founded in 1994.)

Omar’s opponents have seized upon her characterization of the attacks as “something,” omitting her broader context about civil rights. The congresswoman has been the target of a number of death threats since taking office: According to CAIR-LA, the banquet venue where the congresswoman made the remarks quoted by Trump Friday was itself targeted with a bomb threat beforehand. And recently, a New York man was arrested after allegedly threatening Omar’s life in a phone call to her congressional office.

Trump has a long history of politicizing the attacks to target Muslims. During the 2016 presidential campaign, he falsely said that he saw “thousands” of people celebrating the collapse of the Twin Towers on rooftops in New Jersey, “where you have large Arab populations.” That never happened.

Trump has also used the attacks to help himself.

In a television interview on September 11, he bragged of a building he owned near the World Trade Center: “Forty Wall Street actually was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was, actually, before the World Trade Center, was the tallest. And then when they built the World Trade Center it became known as the second-tallest, and now it’s the tallest.”

He also claimed during the 2016 campaign that he “helped a little bit” by clearing out rubble after the attack, though there is no evidence of that.

Trump also isn’t the first to broadcast images of 9/11 in order to attack Omar. The New York Post did the same a day earlier, publishing an image of the Twin Towers mid-plane-impact on the paper’s front page next to Omar’s statement, which there too was quoted out-of-context.

In the same address, Omar noted Trump’s Islamophobic rhetoric and said the President “knows that there are people that he can influence to threaten our lives, to diminish our presence. But what we know, and what Islam teaches us, and what I always say, is that love trumps hate.”
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https://www.mediaite.com/election-2...olence-against-rep-omar-and-muslim-americans/

Beto Tells Crowd at Town Hall Trump Is Inciting Violence Against Rep. Omar and Muslim Americans

During a campaign stop in Ladson, South Carolina, presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke said President Donald Trump posting a video of Rep. Ilhan Omar’s(D-MN) comments about 9/11 interspersed with video from the attacks was “an incitement to violence.”

O’Rourke lead off by describing the video and pointed to Omar’s Muslim faith.

“The end of the video says, ‘We will never forget,'” O’Rourke said. “This is an incitement to violence against Congresswoman Omar. Against our fellow Americans who happen to be Muslim.”
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https://lawandcrime.com/politics/da...k-group-resurface-after-ilhan-omar-criticism/

Dan Crenshaw’s Ties to ‘Islamophobic’ Facebook Group Resurface After Ilhan Omar Criticism

Rep. Dan Crenshaw‘s (R-Texas) past as an administrator for a Facebook group that served as a haven for racist, white nationalist and Islamophobic rhetoric is being subject to another round of scrutiny after his repeated attacks on fellow Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.).

On Tuesday, Crenshaw ignited the controversy by sharing an out-of-context quote from a recent speech Omar gave to the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR). During the speech, Omar was making a point about a collective wave of Islamophobia washing over America in the aftermath of 9/11.

“Far too long we have lived with the discomfort of being a second-class citizen, and frankly, I’m tired of it, and every single Muslim in this country should be tired of it,” Omar said at the Muslim civil rights event in late March. “CAIR was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties.”

Crenshaw, however, isolated the phrase, “some people did something” in an apparent bid to accuse Omar of minimizing the incident of terrorism.

“Unbelievable,” the freshman GOP congressman tweeted.

The next day, Fox & Friends re-shared the out-of-context quote and host Brian Kilmeade went on to question whether Omar was actually American. Kilmeade later backtracked from that position. Omar responded to Crenshaw and Kilmeade in a single tweet, accusing them both of “dangerous incitement” due to the recent spate of death threats that have been leveled against her.



Crenshaw then went on NBC to attack Omar again–accusing the oft-threatened congresswoman of exaggerating the severity of the incident.

“Don’t play the victim card,” Crenshaw complained, “Don’t start making accusations of me.”

That’s when Twitter called foul.

Many users called Crenshaw out for playing the victim card himself after Omar criticized his rhetoric:





https://twitter.com/BordenNatalieg/status/111707777032722022

Others noted that Crenshaw, despite his criticisms of Omar over her 9/11 comments, has yet to support renewing the 9/11 Victim Compensation Fund–and that Crenshaw allegedly brushed off a 9/11 firefighter who confronted the conservative congressman over his opposition to the fund.





Such criticisms eventually led to people dredging up Crenshaw’s tenure as an administrator for the Tea Party Facebook group, whose members frequently trafficked in racist, white nationalist and Islamophobic rhetoric and ideology.





As liberal watchdog Media Matters reported in August 2018, Crenshaw joined the group in May of 2018 and repeatedly shared Facebook videos from his congressional campaign with the group.

Other frequent posts in the group included promotion of the Pizzagate conspiracy theory, the Seth Rich conspiracy theory, anti-Muslim and anti-blackracism–and even posts which defended the white nationalist and alt-right Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Viriginia which ultimately claimed the life of socialist Heather Heyer.

Other moderators and administrators for the Facebook group have been dubbed white nationalists–such as Pamela Geller and Tom Tancredo.

Crenshaw was one of five Republican candidates for office who were members or administrators of the group before the Media Matters report. All five of said GOPers left the group after the report was publicized.

Now, in the midst of full-on Twitter warfare between Omar and Crenshaw, the Twitterati is loath to let Crenshaw forget about his past.
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Wow.. Another racist member of the GOP has been exposed...
 
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