The official COVID-19/Coronavirus Discussion Thread...aka I hope I don't get the Rona

[ChicagoFigure]

I stated that vaccination for a respiratory virus was futile before the campaign even started - not that 100% needs to be vaccinated in order to ‘beat the virus’ - and beating a virus like covid with vaccines (or and if at all) was a fairy tale back in march and April 2020, I don’t know nor care which think tank you work for and if yall were operating with the assumption that y’all could stop the spread and beat covid with vaccines (or any other way) than your mission was futile to begin with aswell. Covid was all over the world in spring 2020 and nothing could have stopped it. This is not hindsight shit but even people who graduated from google stated in April 2020 that the Rona wouldnt go anywhere and it would be endemic - which was pushed by various European and Asian CDCs and ministries of Health back then. Shit even I and others posted that fact in this very thread lol.

I’m not fighting anyone, just calling out bullshit, like you for instance stating that the ‘pandemic’ is out of our hands, like it ever was in our hands to begin with. I @TheNightKing cause dude flip flopped a 100 times in this thread just for the banter lol.

I got my master at the Universiteit Leiden btw - where Einstein amongst others studied - not that you need one to see through the nonsense and the con… This pandemic hasnt been about (global) public health since spring 2020 but I guess mofos still need to wait a couple years before they acknowledge the above…

Another thing, I know I come across as antivax but I'm not.

Even before WHO came out saying the rest of the globe (poor nations) need more vaccines other scientists were expressing that sentiment explicitly stating not providing enough vaxc access to said countries would prolong the pandemic.

And here we are.

My only other gripes are the handling of any investigation into pandemic origins and the outright denial of natural immunity in the US

 

[ChicagoFigure]

However, I do think it's bullshit that people keep acting like some deep point was proven by our current predicament when the reality is that our predicament is largely the result of ignorance and stupidity more than the failure of any particular initiative to stop the virus.

This pandemic continues bc the powers that be are in favor of profit over actually getting the globe vaccinated.

Antivax folks who put others in harms way and don't adhere to any type of protocols are a problem but if the US was 1000% vaxxed Omicron would still be surging here right now

 

[The Lonious Monk]

This is false.

The variants sprang out from overseas. Covid isn't only happening in the US. They did sell us a dream as vaxxed ppl who caught Covid were still transmitting while thinking shit was gravy.

Vaccine inequity across the globe is causing the variants, not people in the US being undervaxxed.

Gross simplification ain't coming from here playa.

Who said the variants started here? My post was about how the pandemic has progressed in America. It's irrelevant where the variants came from in that discussion. What is important was our status when they arrived and how we handled their arrival.

Though, I do agree with you that vaccine inequality was a problem for the world at large.

This pandemic continues bc the powers that be are in favor of profit over actually getting the globe vaccinated.

Antivax folks who put others in harms way and don't adhere to any type of protocols are a problem but if the US was 1000% vaxxed Omicron would still be surging here right now

I agree with everything here including the fact that Omicron would still be surging. However, if the U.S. was 100% vaxxed, the Omicron surge probably wouldn't be much worse for the country than a bad flu year since the Omicron variant has been mild for most vaxxed people.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Who said the variants started here? My post was about how the pandemic has progressed in America. It's irrelevant where the variants came from in that discussion. What is important was our status when they arrived and how we handled their arrival.

Though, I do agree with you that vaccine inequality was a problem for the world at large.

I very much remember being told by local officials if u get vaxxed u can drop the mask, and being able to "go back to normal" and was one of the biggest reasons I would've gotten a shot.

Once ppl started getting the shots they definitely let loose until surges came back.

This helped plenty for Covid transmission and what made officials realize the vaxxed need to go back to masking up.

This vax vs unvaxxed shit is another us vs them shit that does nothing but make everything worse and used for political advantage people fall for it every. Damn. Time.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Dudes doing what they told..the tv told them it was acceptable..Twitter told them it was acceptable..

This is all of it in a nutshell.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

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I very much remember being told by local officials if u get vaxxed u can drop the mask, and being able to "go back to normal" and was one of the biggest reasons I would've gotten a shot.

Once ppl started getting the shots they definitely let loose until surges came back.

This helped plenty for Covid transmission and what made officials realize the vaxxed need to go back to masking up.

This vax vs unvaxxed shit is another us vs them shit that does nothing but make everything worse and used for political advantage people fall for it every. Damn. Time.

I already acknowledged that happened. Shit is complicated. CDC made that decision because testing demonstrated that the reduced viral load carried by vaccinated people greatly decreased the likelihood of transmission (at the time). However, as your other source mentions, there are other factors that contribute to whether or not people being in a building unmasked is a good idea.

Again, I acknowledged that the professionals made missteps, however, when they were wrong, and they were proven to be wrong, they did try to walk things back. That's why people bash them for being wishy washy, but what would people rather them have done? Stick with a stance even after they were proven to be wrong? We just botched shit. That's all to it. You think the CDC wanted to tell people to stop using masks? No, they were getting pressured by the Trump White House at every step to tell people they didn't have to use masks or socially distance or shut down large gathering areas. They caved, and that was wrong, but that's how our fucked up system works unfortunately.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

I already acknowledged that happened. Shit is complicated. CDC made that decision because testing demonstrated that the reduced viral load carried by vaccinated people greatly decreased the likelihood of transmission (at the time). However, as your other source mentions, there are other factors that contribute to whether or not people being in a building unmasked is a good idea.

Again, I acknowledged that the professionals made missteps, however, when they were wrong, and they were proven to be wrong, they did try to walk things back. That's why people bash them for being wishy washy, but what would people rather them have done? Stick with a stance even after they were proven to be wrong? We just botched shit. That's all to it. You think the CDC wanted to tell people to stop using masks? No, they were getting pressured by the Trump White House at every step to tell people they didn't have to use masks or socially distance or shut down large gathering areas. They caved, and that was wrong, but that's how our fucked up system works unfortunately.

Sounds like y'all understand the vaccines caused the leaders to over promise normality. That's good.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

What was the over promise? The CDC saying that vaccinated people could go into buildings without a mask wasn't promising anything. It was a recommendation that turned out to be wrong once more information became available. Shit like that happens in and out of pandemics. Scientists aren't perfect.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

What was the over promise? The CDC saying that vaccinated people could go into buildings without a mask wasn't promising anything. It was a recommendation that turned out to be wrong once more information became available. Shit like that happens in and out of pandemics. Scientists aren't perfect.

The vaccines were sold as going back to normal. It's that simple. Yes they can be wrong but we can also acknowledge it helped surge and transmission.

But on the flip u can't say "we expected this" if u go that route. Cuz clearly they didn't.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

The vaccines were sold as going back to normal. It's that simple. Yes they can be wrong but we can also acknowledge it helped surge and transmission.

But on the flip u can't say "we expected this" if u go that route. Cuz clearly they didn't.

I'd agree that they said the virus was the way back to normal. I wouldn't characterize that as overselling just because it didn't pan out.

If you're in debt, I can give you a financial plan that will get you back square. If you turn around and lose your job and the plan fails, you can't turn around and say I gave you bad advice.

If you remember, after the vaccination effort really got going good, the case and death numbers both really did drop substantially for a while. So again, leaders weren't wrong to say that the vaccine was the path to normalcy. We were headed in that direction. Shit just went left because of variants and continued irresponsible behavior by a significant portion of the American population.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

I'd agree that they said the virus was the way back to normal. I wouldn't characterize that as overselling just because it didn't pan out.

If you're in debt, I can give you a financial plan that will get you back square. If you turn around and lose your job and the plan fails, you can't turn around and say I gave you bad advice.

If you remember, after the vaccines really got going good, the number really did drop substantially for a while. So again, leaders weren't wrong to say that the vaccine was the path to normalcy. We were headed in that direction. Shit just went left because of variants and continued irresponsible behavior by a significant portion of the American population.

It is overselling it by definition. For example multiple 95%+ fully vaxxed universities are going back remote.

So what would happen if the same percentage of the nation was fully vaxxed and a variant comes from overseas?

Matter of fact,.some.of these fully vaxxed universities shut down before omicron was even a thing.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

It is overselling it by definition. For example multiple 95%+ fully vaxxed universities are going back remote.

So what would happen if the same percentage of the nation was fully vaxxed and a variant comes from overseas?

Matter of fact,.some.of these fully vaxxed universities shut down before omicron was even a thing.

Yes, but scientists said from the start that the vaccines ending the pandemic depended on how quickly the vaccine was adopted. They were talking about variants and the possibility of boosters before most of us even got out first shot. So if you were actually informed throughout the process, you should have known that the Omicron surges were possible. Would you have suggested that leadership shouldn't have pushed for vaccination because failure was a possibility? If they had done that, you know as well as I do, that even fewer people would have bothered getting the vaccine.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Yes, but scientists said from the start that the vaccines ending the pandemic depended on how quickly the vaccine was adopted.

So the CDC was not following the science and maybe pulled the trigger too quick. And other local officials blindly followed and exacerbated the problem. And instead of owning it, blame the unvaxxed only. Sounds incompetent to me.

They were talking about variants and the possibility of boosters before most of us even got out first shot. So if you were actually informed throughout the process, you should have known that the Omicron surges were possible. Would you have suggested that leadership shouldn't have pushed for vaccination because failure was a possibility? If they had done that, you know as well as I do, that even fewer people would have bothered getting the vaccine.

And variants are gonna continue to happen as long as vaccine inequity is a thing.

And the guys who are keeping the patents to themselves are selling the solution while prolonging the problem.

This is nothing short of a clown show.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

So the CDC was not following the science and maybe pulled the trigger too quick. And other local officials blindly followed and exacerbated the problem. And instead of owning it, blame the unvaxxed only. Sounds incompetent to me.


And variants are gonna continue to happen as long as vaccine inequity is a thing.

And the guys who are keeping the patents to themselves are selling the solution while prolonging the problem.

This is nothing short of a clown show.

I'm confused. What didn't the CDC own? Are you talking about the indoor unmasking? They did say that the early unmasking was wrong. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that call was made by the scientists. It was more than likely the decision makers at the top. Like I said, our system is fucked up. No argument there.

I agree with the rest of what you said, but keep in mind that the variants being vaccine dependent this fast was a surprise.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

I'm confused. What didn't the CDC own? Are you talking about the indoor unmasking? They did say that the early unmasking was wrong. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that call was made by the scientists. It was more than likely the decision makers at the top. Like I said, our system is fucked up. No argument there.

I agree with the rest of what you said, but keep in mind that the variants being vaccine dependent this fast was a surprise.

Everything is blamed on the unvaxxed is what I mean. From the politicians down to the average Joe's including condescending posters in here.

Keep in mind there is no distinction between unvaxxed/Covid recovered and unvaxxed/never caught Covid in this country even tho it's recognized in other countries.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Everything is blamed on the unvaxxed is what I mean. From the politicians down to the average Joe's including condescending posters in here.

Keep in mind there is no distinction between unvaxxed/Covid recovered and unvaxxed/never caught Covid in this country even tho it's recognized in other countries.

Well, I can't comment on that. People not getting vaccinated has been noted as a problem, but I've never heard anyone claim it was the only problem.

At the end of the day, most of the severe cases and deaths have been unvaxxed people, so they've been more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.

I will say that unvaxxed people get criticized for their reasoning for not getting vaxxed, and that's because 9 times out of 10, their reasoning is stupid or uninformed.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Well, I can't comment on that. People not getting vaccinated has been noted as a problem, but I've never heard anyone claim it was the only problem.

At the end of the day, most of the severe cases and deaths have been unvaxxed people, so they've been more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.

I will say that unvaxxed people get criticized for their reasoning for not getting vaxxed, and that's because 9 times out of 10, their reasoning is stupid or uninformed.

The extreme demonization of the unvaxxed is hard to ignore unless u just agree with it.

Beside that I think anyone not wanting to get vaxxed just because is good enough....as long as they relatively healthy, younger and playing it safe.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

The extreme demonization of the unvaxxed is hard to ignore unless u just agree with it.

Beside that I think anyone not wanting to get vaxxed just because is good enough....as long as they relatively healthy, younger and playing it safe.

Again, from what I've seen, the demonization of unvaxxed people has had less to do with them not being vaxxed and more with their reasoning for not being vaxxed. It's a pandemic and they basically turned getting vaxxed into a rights issue. And sure now that the variants have cut down on the efficacy of the vaccines at preventing transmission, you're probably right that it's not as vital for people who are healthier. However, when the vaccines were first released and the fervor against unvaxxed people was growing, all signs pointed to the vaccines being effective at cutting the spread. So yeah, people had the right to be upset with others choosing not to get vaxxed for flimsy or uninformed reasons. If you don't like that, that's your business, but we live in a society and everyone has the right to tell people who are basically taking the stance of "I can do what I want and I don't care how it affects the rest of you" to fuck off.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Again, from what I've seen, the demonization of unvaxxed people has had less to do with them not being vaxxed and more with their reasoning for not being vaxxed. It's a pandemic and they basically turned getting vaxxed into a rights issue. And sure now that the variants have cut down on the efficacy of the vaccines at preventing transmission, you're probably right that it's not as vital for people who are healthier. However, when the vaccines were first released and the fervor against unvaxxed people was growing, all signs pointed to the vaccines being effective at cutting the spread. So yeah, people had the right to be upset with others choosing not to get vaxxed for flimsy or uninformed reasons. If you don't like that, that's your business, but we live in a society and everyone has the right to tell people who are basically taking the stance of "I can do what I want and I don't care how it affects the rest of you" to fuck off.

Being unvaxxed bc u have recovered from Covid within the past six months and still have antibodies is seen as "stupid" and "irresponsible".

While it's all relative, it's treated and discussed in very blanketed and barely nuanced ways.

Idc about what ppl have a right to say. When we talking laws and mandates that ignore science i do have a problem.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Being unvaxxed bc u have recovered from Covid within the past six months and still have antibodies is seen as "stupid" and "irresponsible".

While it's all relative, it's treated and discussed in very blanketed and barely nuanced ways.

Idc about what ppl have a right to say. When we talking laws and mandates that ignore science i do have a problem.

lol Well it is stupid and irresponsible considering we know that you can basically get back to back cases of it if you're not careful.

And you're the one that brought up people being demonized, so you obvious do care about what people say.