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OPINION Should college in the U.S. be free? Should college debt be forgiven?

DMorgan said:
I know this will be an unpopular opinion.

I'm staunchly against free college and eliminating student loan debt for everyone. I'm not empathetic at all to people to who rack up huge student loan debts.

You chose that shit you pay for it.
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I agree to an extent, money is usually the motivation to want to finish. No ones massive debt with no pay off, at the same time though.

The government would do well making some degrees tuition free. Like things that are heavily needed in America. Degrees for teaching school aged children, nursing, certain engineering and IT degrees.

On a associate's level tho, I think you subsidize bachelor's and master's to help continued education. But forcing children mostly to go to school for 12 years basically training them to be workers and pushing them into a world now where to make a living wage you need a degree..

You are basically extorting children into at minimum 30k debt, just to be able to survive. It has to be addressed in some way that is beneficial to the coming generations.
 
Alle'Oop said:
I agree to an extent, money is usually the motivation to want to finish. No ones massive debt with no pay off, at the same time though.

The government would do well making some degrees tuition free. Like things that are heavily needed in America. Degrees for teaching school aged children, nursing, certain engineering and IT degrees.

On a associate's level tho, I think you subsidize bachelor's and master's to help continued education. But forcing children mostly to go to school for 12 years basically training them to be workers and pushing them into a world now where to make a living wage you need a degree..

You are basically extorting children into at minimum 30k debt, just to be able to survive. It has to be addressed in some way that is beneficial to the coming generations.
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It's ways to accomplish all of that without going into massive debt. A college degree doesn't guarantee the graduate anything. So making the choice to go into a big debt without a guaranteed way to get out of it is just dumb. IMO it ain't on the gov't to save people continuing to make that same dumb ass decision.
 
Fuck it just make everything free then. Why should I have to pay for my home mortgage or car note since the gov't can just come up with the money?
 
DMorgan said:
It's ways to accomplish all of that without going into massive debt. A college degree doesn't guarantee the graduate anything. So making the choice to go into a big debt without a guaranteed way to get out of it is just dumb. IMO it ain't on the gov't to save people continuing to make that same dumb ass decision.
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They arent going to raise minimum wage but without nepotism there is no way outside of going into business on your own, to make a living wage without a degree.

The government has made debt almost a must have for young adults.
 
And you are telling 18 year olds they cant drink, but they are responsible enough to deal with predator banks and loans. Tell they dont know enough about life to know who they should support in politics, but they should know enough about how to maneuver in the loan world.

It cant be both

To which taxes and loans arent taught in school
 
Alle'Oop said:
They arent going to raise minimum wage but without nepotism there is no way outside of going into business on your own, to make a living wage without a degree.

The government has made debt almost a must have for young adults.
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What most people need to realize is college ain't for everyone. When a market gets oversaturated with something the value of said thing goes down. In this discussion it's college degrees. With so many people going to college the schools need more teachers, more facilities, etc. So in order to pay for that tuition has to rise. The rate its rising is too much to fast but outside of that it has to go up.

If a person chooses that route as the game of life they choose to play then they need to pay for it cause that is the choice they made.

You say this as if its a negative alternative to going into debt for a useless in most fields college experience.
 
Alle'Oop said:
And you are telling 18 year olds they cant drink, but they are responsible enough to deal with predator banks and loans. Tell they dont know enough about life to know who they should support in politics, but they should know enough about how to maneuver in the loan world.

It cant be both

To which taxes and loans arent taught in school
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The rates of said loans I'll give you. You shouldn't be going to college if you don't know a loan has to be paid back at some point. This ain't about people being perfect and not having knowledge of everything. I ain't also going to act like the information ain't out there for people to make smarter decisions when it comes to student loan debt.

They informed on a lot shit so they can be informed on the debt they're accruing as well. To some extent at least.
 
DMorgan said:
What most people need to realize is college ain't for everyone. When a market gets oversaturated with something the value of said thing goes down. In this discussion it's college degrees. With so many people going to college the schools need more teachers, more facilities, etc. So in order to pay for that tuition has to rise. The rate its rising is too much to fast but outside of that it has to go up.

If a person chooses that route as the game of life they choose to play then they need to pay for it cause that is the choice they made.

You say this as if its a negative alternative to going into debt for a useless in most fields college experience.
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I understand but you can condition children for 12 years, for college. Then when faced with what you create say.

:ualreadyknow:

Well what we conditioned you for 12 years but college isnt for everyone.

That's the government not taking responsibility
 
DMorgan said:
The rates of said loans I'll give you. You shouldn't be going to college if you don't know a loan has to be paid back at some point. This ain't about people being perfect and not having knowledge of everything. I ain't also going to act like the information ain't out there for people to make smarter decisions when it comes to student loan debt.

They informed on a lot shit so they can be informed on the debt they're accruing as well. To some extent at least.
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Theres nothing wrong with loans, it's the predatory nature of the loans in concert with the colleges having crazy rates for classes and books.
 
Alle'Oop said:
I understand but you can condition children for 12 years, for college. Then when faced with what you create say.

:ualreadyknow:

Well what we conditioned you for ,for 12 years isnt for everyone.

That's the government not taking responsibility
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That is where you're wrong. Kids aren't being conditioned for 12 years to go to college. Kids in charter and public schools are conditioned to leave high school and go straight into the lower paid work force. Kids in private schools are conditioned for college.

It's actually parents not taking responsibility for sending their unprepared kids to college and racking up big debts in those kids names.
 
Alle'Oop said:
Theres nothing wrong with loans, it's the predatory nature of the loans in concert with the colleges having crazy rates for classes and books.
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So kids go to college to get "educated" but don't realize they signed a predatory loan until at minimum 4 years of college? Then sign up again for graduate school?

Is that what you saying?
 
DMorgan said:
That is where you're wrong. Kids aren't being conditioned for 12 years to go to college. Kids in charter and public schools are conditioned to leave high school and go straight into the lower paid work force. Kids in private schools are conditioned for college.

It's actually parents not taking responsibility for sending their unprepared kids to college and racking up big debts in those kids names.
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U got it with the bolded..u are right, but lower wage jobs dont pay a livable wage anymore..which is why college is needed. Which is why the argument is raise minimum wage..they say no it would crash the economy, then they say well how about change the for profit nature of my only alternative to make a living wage, they say no that will crash the economy.

Then folk say what are you gonna do, and the government says, I'm going give these rich people more money and they can keep more of their money. And folks say how does that help?

The government says well the more money they have the more they invest in you. Then those rich folk take the money, hide it, and move their companies to other nations to make more from a place willing to have their citizen make less than the less u make.

Folk say what the hell..


And the government says

:ualreadyknow:

Fuck u want me to do?
 
DMorgan said:
So kids go to college to get "educated" but don't realize they signed a predatory loan until at minimum 4 years of college? Then sign up again for graduate school?

Is that what you saying?
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Yea, I'm saying it's a set up..

U get the degree to get the job, you make very little from it, then you have to get a degree to get higher money to pay off the money you owe
 
Alle'Oop said:
U got it with the bolded..u are right, but lower wage jobs dont pay a livable wage anymore..which is why college is needed. Which is why the argument is raise minimum wage..they say no it would crash the economy, then they say well how about change the for profit nature of my only alternative to make a living wage, they say no that will crash the economy.

Then folk say what are you gonna do, and the government says, I'm going give these rich people more money and they can keep more of their money. And folks say how does that help?

The government says well the more money they have the more they invest in you. Then those rich folk take the money, hide it, and move their companies to other nations to make more from a place willing to have their citizen make less than the less u make.

Folk say what the hell..


And the government says

:ualreadyknow:

Fuck u want me to do?
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College ain't needed. People just take what others are saying regarding that as gospel. Too many people think college is the only way outside of sports and entertainment to make good money when that ain't true.

We know the gov't fucked up but yet majority of people still going along with their plan to get along. Then complain about trusting some people they knew weren't trustworthy to begin with.

Everything ain't for everybody. People need to find their path and following behind some shit that has been proven not to work then complaining about the debt behind that plan ain't it.
 
Alle'Oop said:
Yea, I'm saying it's a set up..

U get the degree to get the job, you make very little from it, then you have to get a degree to get higher money to pay off the money you owe
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Sorry I can't blame the predator when the shit is known the second time around that this some bullshit scam/set up. For some the first time around I get what you saying and agree to some extent but as the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool twice shame on me"
 
DMorgan said:
College ain't needed. People just take what others are saying regarding that as gospel. Too many people think college is the only way outside of sports and entertainment to make good money when that ain't true.

We know the gov't fucked up but yet majority of people still going along with their plan to get along. Then complain about trusting some people they knew weren't trustworthy to begin with.

Everything ain't for everybody. People need to find their path and following behind some shit that has been proven not to work then complaining about the debt behind that plan ain't it.
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Bro, I invite to go to any career site and look at the minimum requirements.
 
Alle'Oop said:
Bro, I invite to go to any career site and look at the minimum requirements.
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I don't need the invitation.

I know a 25 year old with no college education who has a house, kid and drives a porche panamera doing HVAC work. I know electricians, mechanics and others with trades that make great money and none of them have college educations.

People have to get off that college education is the only way to make real money, livable wage bullshit. It's not fucking true.

Too many folks want office jobs to make that money. So that job sector is over crowded with people of similar skills and education levels. Ain't enough high paying office jobs for all those people in debt with college degrees. The herd is getting thinned and people want to complain cause they didn't see the whole board.

Some people just need to own up to the the fact that they made the wrong choice.
 
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