FEATURED Jordan and Lebron

[O.G.]

Lebron not winning an MVP since 2012-13 is kinda crazy when you think about it. Some voter fatigue and great competition. He definitely has played in a tougher era. Besides last season (injuries), the lowest he ever finished in MVP voting is 13th and he was 36 years old at the time. Incredible.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I feel LBJ should have 10+

Lebron not winning an MVP since 2012-13 is kinda crazy when you think about it. Some voter fatigue and great competition. He definitely has played in a tougher era. Besides last season (injuries), the lowest he ever finished in MVP voting is 13th and he was 36 years old at the time. Incredible.

lol Ya'll are bugging. What other MVPs should Lebron have? I can see arguing for another 1 or 2 because voter fatigue is a thing, but 6+ more. Come on now. Let's look at the past 10 MVPs.

2023 Embiid
2022 Jokic
2021 Jokic
2020 Giannis
2019 Giannis
2018 Harden
2017 Westbrook
2016 Curry
2015 Curry
2014 Durant

Lebron was the runner up in 2020, 2018. and 2014, but I think the right person won in all those cases. Which one would ya'll contend with?

 

[O.G.]

lol Ya'll are bugging. What other MVPs should Lebron have? I can see arguing for another 1 or 2 because voter fatigue is a thing, but 6+ more. Come on now. Let's look at the past 10 MVPs.

2023 Embiid
2022 Jokic
2021 Jokic
2020 Giannis
2019 Giannis
2018 Harden
2017 Westbrook
2016 Curry
2015 Curry
2014 Durant

Lebron was the runner up in 2020, 2018. and 2014, but I think the right person won in all those cases. Which one would ya'll contend with?

Don't say yall. I never said 10

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Don't say yall. I never said 10

I included you because you said it's crazy he hasn't won in so long. I showed all the winners since he last got one. It's not really that crazy. He just hasn't been the best player in any given year in a long time. You can make and argument that he was the most consistently good up until 2019 though.

 

[O.G.]

I included you because you said it's crazy he hasn't won in so long. I showed all the winners since he last got one. It's not really that crazy. He just hasn't been the best player in any given year in a long time. You can make and argument that he was the most consistently good up until 2019 though.

I had him winning over Rose but Rose balled out that year so I ain't mad at it.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I had him winning over Rose but Rose balled out that year so I ain't mad at it.

That was a crazy year. You could have made a case for Wade too.

As a matter of fact, Wade and Lebron were like neck and neck 2009, 2010, and 1011. It's kinda crazy Wade never won and MVP for as good as he was playing back then. Dude carried a team to a championship. That's why the Decision was fucked up. You basically had 1a and 1b top players in the East winding up on the same team. Like they were that close as far as how good they were.

 

[Dwayne]

LeBron should have won 4 straight in his return to Cleveland and won when Rose got it.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

LeBron should have won 4 straight in his return to Cleveland and won when Rose got it.

Are you trolling? He want even a runner-up those years. You really believe he deserved it over Curry when Curry was lighting the league up or Westbrook when he averaged a triple double for a season. You starting to sound famboyish now, and I didn't take you for that.

 

[Jayjay2333]

Between Unc, Nick Wright and Bron himself, the consensus is gonna def shift towards LBJ. His retirement will touch off a wave of nostalgia and he'll ride that into the top spot. What's hilarious is it'll never be basically undisputed for over a decade, like it was for M. He'll be lucky to ever see 60% of the public saying he's the GOAT..Oh and Wemby is OTW rn

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Between Unc, Nick Wright and Bron himself, the consensus is gonna def shift towards LBJ. His retirement will touch off a wave of nostalgia and he'll ride that into the top spot. What's hilarious is it'll never be basically undisputed for over a decade, like it was for M. He'll be lucky to ever see 60% of the public saying he's the GOAT..Oh and Wemby is OTW rn

I don't know. If Lebron let it happen organically, I think you'd be right. But the agenda to push him as the GOAT is too blatant.

The people that think he's the GOAT will continue to think that, but I don't think his antics will win him new fans.

They've taken polls, and the majority of the players that he's played with don't even think he's the best. I don't see that changing over time.

 

[Dwayne]

Too many old heads fans and players hate LeBron so they created so many false narratives since he came in the league

“He’s not clutch”
“Can’t defend”
“Can’t shoot”

The internet has made it cool to hate players. Got young dudes on the band wagon as well to hate on him.


It’s hilarious because old players and fans always complain how players play talking about it’s all 3s and iso ball when LBJ been the exact opposite for his entire career.

Hes the perfect player to model you game after

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Too many old heads fans and players hate LeBron so they created so many false narratives since he came in the league

“He’s not clutch”
“Can’t defend”
“Can’t shoot”

The internet has made it cool to hate players. Got young dudes on the band wagon as well to hate on him.

Those narratives aren't really false. They are just overblown. You have to remember. Lebron has always been judged through the lens of being one of the greatest players of all time even by his haters. When people talk about him not being a good midrange shooter, they are basically talking about in comparison with people like MJ and Kobe. Compared to them, his midrange game is mediocre.

He unwittingly gave credence to the criticism in the most recent episode of that podcast though. His critics say he has to have an open lane because he lacks decent midrange shooting. In the podcast, he said the way Spo "fixed" their team after the first year was to make Bosh the center and have him routinely move out to the 3pt line as a spot up shooter. That way he's pull out the opponent's center and open up the lane, which allowed Lebron to thrive better.

I laugh when I hear people say Lebron is just as good now as he was 10 years ago. No, he's not. His numbers still look good because scoring is easier now. Prime Bron would be averaging something like 35 ppg nowadays. He'd be a smarter, more skilled, Giannis.

 

[Dwayne]

Those narratives aren't really false. They are just overblown. You have to remember. Lebron has always been judged through the lens of being one of the greatest players of all time even by his haters. When people talk about him not being a good midrange shooter, they are basically talking about in comparison with people like MJ and Kobe. Compared to them, his midrange game is mediocre.

He unwittingly gave credence to the criticism in the most recent episode of that podcast though. His critics say he has to have an open lane because he lacks decent midrange shooting. In the podcast, he said the way Spo "fixed" their team after the first year was to make Bosh the center and have him routinely move out to the 3pt line as a spot up shooter. That way he's pull out the opponent's center and open up the lane, which allowed Lebron to thrive better.

I laugh when I hear people say Lebron is just as good now as he was 10 years ago. No, he's not. His numbers still look good because scoring is easier now. Prime Bron would be averaging something like 35 ppg nowadays. He'd be a smarter, more skilled, Giannis.

They’re false not overblown. He’s one of the most versatile defenders to ever play the guy and one of the most clutch scorers. While shouldering the offense from scoring to playmaking still had to lock up best players in crunch time.elite helps side defender at the rim. Regardless of what folks say he can most definitely shoot

LBJ is a top 5

 

[Chi-Town B]

He didn't deserve it over Rose, Rose led his team to the best record and also swept LeBron during the season

 

[The Lonious Monk]

They’re false not overblown. He’s one of the most versatile defenders to ever play the guy and one of the most clutch scorers. While shouldering the offense from scoring to playmaking still had to lock up best players in crunch time.elite helps side defender at the rim. Regardless of what folks say he can most definitely shoot

LBJ is a top 5

Lebron was a legitimately great defender for like 5 years. That's not arguable. He's had at least as many years where he's played James Harden level defense. That's why he catches that criticism. So is it false to say he can't play good defense? Yes, but most people don't say that. Most people say he doesn't play good defense or that his defense is overrated. That's not completely false.

He's not a great midrange shooter, and he used to not be a particularly good 3 pt shooter. He's now an average 3 pt and probably an average midrange shooter. That's not bad, but it's not particularly impressive for a player that is in the GOAT conversation.

I don't really know why people say he's not clutch. I think that stems from his tendency to pass it off in times when people think he should be the one to take the shot. He's hit a lot of big shots over the course of his career though, so out of all the criticisms, that one is the stupidest to me. I think people don't have a good understanding of what it means to be clutch. MJ is widely regarded as one of the most clutch players, and when you look at his numbers, the thing that stands out is that there is no difference between him shooting in high pressure situations vs normal situations. That's what it means to be clutch. Some people think clutch means you shoot better when the pressure is on. I doubt there are any players who would be considered clutch by that standard.

 

[Dwayne]

He didn't deserve it over Rose, Rose led his team to the best record and also swept LeBron during the season

Records wasn’t that far apart

LBJ lead over Rose in EVERY SINGLE category.

He was 1st team All-NBA and 1st team All-Defense. Give that dude his flowers

 

[Dwayne]

Lmao at 5 years.

I’m out. You’re a smart guy but your ball knowledge ain’t where it needs to be

 

[Chi-Town B]

Records wasn’t that far apart

LBJ lead over Rose in EVERY SINGLE category.

He was 1st team All-NBA and 1st team All-Defense. Give that dude his flowers

He had the help of two hall of fame players, who was Rose helpers?

 

[Dwayne]

He had the help of two hall of fame players, who was Rose helpers?

What does that have to do with LBJ performance? He was giving out those performances before and after them.

He has those players and still had to better numbers 100% across the board than Rose

That has no correlation

 

[Chi-Town B]

What does that have to do with LBJ performance? He was giving out those performances before and after them.

He has those players and still had to better numbers 100% across the board than Rose

That has no correlation

Everything to do with it.