Janelle Monáe trying to cancel rappers (she is)

[5th Letter]

I could see if he posted all the conscious niggas he literally just post any nigga that every made a song lol

So because a male rapper said the B and H words in other songs it means that I can’t post a song by them that proves my point? I posted Nas who has used those words and he has tons of songs on various subjects. It’s not all about misogynistic themes.

 

[BlackRain]

It's all a matter of perspective. Are there songs where dudes speak on sexual desires for women or bad experiences with women? Yes. Is that misogyny. I don't know. I wouldn't say it is. That's no worse than the many songs women have talking about getting money out of niggas or bitching about no-good niggas. I wouldn't refer to those songs as misandry. Now if you are talking about Bitches Ain't Shit or Gorilla Pimpin types of songs, then yeah those are misogynistic, but really, how many songs are there out there like that? Yes, dudes can lighten up on the "bitches and hoes" talk in rap, but I feel like you're exaggerating when you say that's an important component of rap.



This is the only part that matters about what you said because it proves my point. You can't say some incendiary shit to start a conversation and then complain about the conversation being about the way you said something rather than what you said. Ya'll are playing a crazy game in here. Several people arguing in favor of what she said already said she could have phrased it better and even gave better examples of what she could have said, and somehow ya'll are simultaneously trying to act like there is nothing wrong with she said. It's silly.

And we can all appeal to analogies to support our side. The cops and cop apologists always excuse the unfair treatment of black people by pointing to the high crime rates and acting like it's ok to treat all black people one way because of the presence of criminals in the black community. I'm sure you know that's ridiculous. So why is it not equally as ridiculous to constantly attack black men, rappers, or whoever else broadly when only a subset of that group are offending parties? Again, you can make the argument that misogyny in rap should be reduced without basically saying that every male rapper is guilty of it.

The amount of songs where men are saying some wild shit about women far out number the songs where women talk about getting over on men. For every City Girls there's 5 Migos. The sheer fact that theres more men rapping than women proves this. It's much easier to avoid women talking about this shit then male rappers simply because there ain't that many of them. And no simply talking about women in songs isnt misogynistic but think about the ways some of the most popular artist talk about women and you cant deny the misogyny is there. You say it comes off as attacking black men because black men by and large represent the face of hip hop but theres no way to address hip hop without including Black men because we have shaped the image of it for the most part. you also have to be smart enough to know who among those Black men that she's talking about. Should she have written down a list of every male rapper whose ever written a misogynist bar and those who havent in order for you to actually get the point? Or can you see the point she's making and actually want to talk about the issue at hand?

And there is nothing wrong with the overall point she was getting at. You're doing exactly what you claimed not to be doing which is letting the way the message was delivered deter from a point you acknowledge you clearly understand.

 

[5th Letter]

More mainstream

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Lol literally niggas don’t like Drake because his music is too simp like tho

What's your point? It's not like your only options are simping and misogyny. There is plenty of middle ground there.

The amount of songs where men are saying some wild shit about women far out number the songs where women talk about getting over on men. For every City Girls there's 5 Migos. The sheer fact that theres more men rapping than women proves this. It's much easier to avoid women talking about this shit then male rappers simply because there ain't that many of them. And no simply talking about women in songs isnt misogynistic but think about the ways some of the most popular artist talk about women and you cant deny the misogyny is there. You say it comes off as attacking black men because black men by and large represent the face of hip hop but theres no way to address hip hop without including Black men because we have shaped the image of it for the most part. you also have to be smart enough to know who among those Black men that she's talking about. Should she have written down a list of every male rapper whose ever written a misogynist bar and those who havent in order for you to actually get the point? Or can you see the point she's making and actually want to talk about the issue at hand?

And there is nothing wrong with the overall point she was getting at. You're doing exactly what you claimed not to be doing which is letting the way the message was delivered deter from a point you acknowledge you clearly understand.

I really don't understand all this back and forth to be honest. I've said that Hip Hop has too much misogyny. I've said that we need to put some pressure on the people out there pushing the music because they are largely the ones that make things popular. I've said we need to do a better job of highlighting the artists that ain't all about negative shit. I've said the popular artists need to relax on the "bitches and hoes" shit and set an example for up and comers to do the same. I've acknowledged that people can do better. Why is it so hard for ya'll to acknowledge that it's counterproductive for people to constantly exaggerate and misrepresent reality when voicing their concerns? Again, more than one person in this topic has given an example of a better way that she could have broached the subject. If she had done that, I would be on your side completely, but you can't just assume that everyone would just get what she meant. Hip Hop has been through this before where the damn U.S. government was trying to mischaracterize and attack the artform. I don't understand why people feel the need to be so reckless when they express themselves. No black people should support that kinda thing, because it's the exact way we've been treated in this country. It's why so many niggas feel like every action they take represents the whole race and not just themselves.

 

[BlackRain]

What's your point? It's not like your only options are simping and misogyny. There is plenty of middle ground there.



I really don't understand all this back and forth to be honest. I've said that Hip Hop has too much misogyny. I've said that we need to put some pressure on the people out there pushing the music because they are largely the ones that make things popular. I've said we need to do a better job of highlighting the artists that ain't all about negative shit. I've said the popular artists need to relax on the "bitches and hoes" shit and set an example for up and comers to do the same. I've acknowledged that people can do better. Why is it so hard for ya'll to acknowledge that it's counterproductive for people to constantly exaggerate and misrepresent reality when voicing their concerns? Again, more than one person in this topic has given an example of a better way that she could have broached the subject. If she had done that, I would be on your side completely, but you can't just assume that everyone would just get what she meant. Hip Hop has been through this before where the damn U.S. government was trying to mischaracterize and attack the artform. I don't understand why people feel the need to be so reckless when they express themselves. No black people should support that kinda thing, because it's the exact way we've been treated in this country. It's why so many niggas feel like every action they take represents the whole race and not just themselves.

What you're asking for has already been done multiple times over. To keep rehashing it serves no purpose after it's already been established. You want every post to have that disclaimer or something? Clearly everyone whose been part of this discussion on this thread has gotten that point so what exactly are you asking for?

 

[The Lonious Monk]

What you're asking for has already been done multiple times over. To keep rehashing it serves no purpose after it's already been established. You want every post to have that disclaimer or something? Clearly everyone whose been part of this discussion on this thread has gotten that point so what exactly are you asking for?

Then what are we arguing about? Every time I post something, ya'll act like I'm saying something crazy or deflecting from the conversation. I'm not. I said she should have phrased it better and gave my reason for why I believe her phrasing is problematic. I also agreed that Hip Hop is too misogynistic and needs to be refined a bit. The only thing I've really disagreed with ya'll about was how significant the misogyny is in Hip Hop. Ya'll are talking like it's at the core. I don't believe that. I believe it's to prevalent, but I don't agree that Hip Hip is built on misogyny like ya'll seem to be implying.

 

[5th Letter]

To be honest even if she phrased it nicer she’d still be wrong.

 

[Dwayne]

Apply it to the black on black crime spectrum white folks use

 

[The Lonious Monk]

To be honest even if she phrased it nicer she’d still be wrong.

You don't think she would have had a point if she said something like: "There is often too much derogatory and dehumanizing language directed at women in popular rap music, and I believe artists and fans should be more proactive in reducing that?"

 

[5th Letter]

You don't think she would have had a point if she said something like: "There is often too much derogatory and dehumanizing language directed at women in popular rap music, and I believe artists and fans should be more proactive in reducing that?"

There is that certain subject matter in rap music but there are other subject matters and artists that do not use certain words or make music like that. So no she’d still be wrong.

 

[Dwayne]

You don't think she would have had a point if she said something like: "There is often too much derogatory and dehumanizing language directed at women in popular rap music, and I believe artists and fans should be more proactive in reducing that?"

That’s saying something completely different

 

[The Lonious Monk]

There is that certain subject matter in rap music but there are other subject matters and artists that do not use certain words or make music like that. So no she’d still be wrong.

She didn't say that was the only subject matter in rap. She simply pointed out that that subject matter exists and that it shouldn't. Do you think it is wrong to suggest that rappers should stop with blatantly misogynistic songs altogether?

I don't think she's wrong to suggest that. I think we can have a discussion about about what counts as misogyny, but we all know there are songs that serve no purpose other than to debase women. There is no reason for such songs to exist. For example, I'm a Ghostface fan and OB4CL is my favorite album of all time, but this song did not need to be made.

That’s saying something completely different

How so? In both cases, we'd be saying that rap directs too much bad shit towards women, and that needs to be stopped. The only difference is that implied that basically all male artists are guilty of it, and I'm putting it in more reasonable context.

 

[MorganFreemanKing]

Oh for fuck sake. Have we not had this discussion before? Did this not come up with the Don Imus shit? Didn't a bunch of people give this super grown ass white man excuses because "all the rappers say it"?

Then came all the BET panels having this "hip hop discussion" about what should and shouldnt be said. All that came from it was Imus getting his job back.

So here we are again having this "discussion" because somebody posted a tweet. Rap is multifaceted. Point blank period. Rap is just as much of a forum as Twitter and even this site. Lots of perspectives from different people with different backgrounds and experiences.

So yes, misogyny is present and it will be for the forseeable future. (Oddly enough, the tweet itself seems to only target misogyny from men, not misogyny in general.) It gets a lot of attention so its gonna seem more prevalent by default (negativity spreads faster than positivity). So to say "most men" perpetuate this is a lazy generalization although i do understand that a tweet can only be so long.

Again, to think that a collective of people should abolish any facet of art because a single person feels a way? That is some wild shit. Even moreso without backing up that generalization. People have been trying and failing since its inception.

 

[5th Letter]

She didn't say that was the only subject matter in rap. She simply pointed out that that subject matter exists and that it shouldn't. Do you think it is wrong to suggest that rappers should stop with blatantly misogynistic songs altogether?

I don't think she's wrong to suggest that. I think we can have a discussion about about what counts as misogyny, but we all know there are songs that serve no purpose other than to debase women. There is no reason for such songs to exist. For example, I'm a Ghostface fan and OB4CL is my favorite album of all time, but this song did not need to be made.

I never said she said that. I’M saying that there are different subject matters and artists that don’t speak that way. It’s an expression of art if you don’t like it there are others out there that makes music that isn’t misogynistic.
Ghostface has that but he also made this.

 

[5th Letter]

Oh for fuck sake. Have we not had this discussion before? Did this not come up with the Don Imus shit? Didn't a bunch of people give this super grown ass white man excuses because "all the rappers say it"?

Then came all the BET panels having this "hip hop discussion" about what should and shouldnt be said. All that came from it was Imus getting his job back.

So here we are again having this "discussion" because somebody posted a tweet. Rap is multifaceted. Point blank period. Rap is just as much of a forum as Twitter and even this site. Lots of perspectives from different people with different backgrounds and experiences.

So yes, misogyny is present and it will be for the forseeable future. (Oddly enough, the tweet itself seems to only target misogyny from men, not misogyny in general.) It gets a lot of attention so its gonna seem more prevalent by default (negativity spreads faster than positivity). So to say "most men" perpetuate this is a lazy generalization although i do understand that a tweet can only be so long.

Again, to think that a collective of people should abolish any facet of art because a single person feels a way? That is some wild shit. Even moreso without backing up that generalization. People have been trying and failing since its inception.

/thread