BRIAN B.
Shittypoobutt
wasn't that said as a metaphor?
so, you sayin Jonah story is a metaphor?
cuz it wasn't written or said as a metaphor but a true tale
I Believe In God....But...
- Thread starter GO843
- Start date
wasn't that said as a metaphor?
so, you sayin Jonah story is a metaphor?
cuz it wasn't written or said as a metaphor but a true tale
SeaSnake
OG
If a person believes in a religion does that mean they need to also disregard facts for that religion? Is it not possible to follow a way but not believe that the Earth was created in a week?
If a person then says the teaching of Jesus or whatever faith brought them peace. Are they less devout for looking at the stories as allegory?
If a person then says the teaching of Jesus or whatever faith brought them peace. Are they less devout for looking at the stories as allegory?
AZTG
OG
Got to look at how record was kept at that point.
You had govt records of births, deaths, marriages, businesses being bought/sold, taxes being paid, buildings being built etc. You had govt history keepers that would write records of wars and battles, numbers of people killed etc. You had laws being written and records of those laws. The roman senators voting and records of the votes. All in all, they kept records of everything.
But then on top of that you had people whose jobs were historians. Lots of them wrote about the happenings of the times, history of the world, etc.
In following that pattern, you also had jewish historians in Judea.
The way historic writing gets verified is that you see multiple historians write about the same events. Some historians write about the events after the fact, sometimes years after, but you compare all the writings of the events and see that they had most of the same details and then you get to the point that all these different people couldnt be telling the same lies so you take it as events that actually hapenned
And then the more writings of individual historians you find and verify the more that historian gains credibility in the modern day.
I dont remember names off the top of my head but there were a bunch of jewish historians at the time of Christ. Enough to actually verify a lot of the biblical stories of the goings ons of Judea but nothing about a guy performing miracles. And a guy performing miracles would have been a big deal.
Thats why we could prove that King Herod did rebuild the temple but have 0 record of a biblical jesus existing. Likely cause there was never a devine being that walked the earth.
Keep in mind that the bible was put together about 400 years after the life of Jesus. There was a huge council of early Christian preachers/historians that had a huge council to decide which books went into the bible we know today. They had to do this because there were tons of books going around. Most of those earlier books spoke of a man going around and preaching but never made any mention of him being the son of god.
One of the biggest debates at the council to put the bible together was the belief of the trinity. At the time there was division amongst early Christians with half of them believing in the trinity and the other half saying there was no such thing. In other words, no holy mother and no son. They decided to keep the trinity.
I say all to say that Jesus was probably a figure like Martin Luther that created protestantism. Martin Luther was a regular preacher who saw corruption in the Catholic Church, preached about it and ended up starting protestantism.
The real jesus was probably similar. A dude who saw corruption in Judiasm and preached to fix it and his preachings ended up creating a new branch of judiasm that turned to christianity.
The divinity was added later. Atleast according to historical records.
AZTG
OG
For sure you can do this.
The issue is when you start adding heaven and hell to it and then the stipulation that you have to believe that jesus is the son of god and at the same time was god to get into heaven.
You can say you dont think the earth was created in 6 days and you'll get a pass. You cant say you dont think god walked the earth though. Thats a part you need to believe and thats just as impossible as living in a whale for 3 days.
Other than that if you say dont believe the god aspect but follow the philosophy of christianity it becomes the same as me following confucianism. Confuciniasm influenced a lot of my world views and morals and follows the same golden rule as christianity.
Breezy_Kilroy
Black Frost
Honestly I've never put too much stock into humans living to be that old so I can't speak on that or what it means to be a fundamentalist.
I know the Bible speaks on why our lives started to become shorter and shorter though.
BRIAN B.
Shittypoobutt
a fundamentalist is
"a person who believes in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture in a religion."
so, you don't believe Methuselah lived to be almost 1,000yrs old?
SKPJR
Active Member
I always felt like the book of Job was a bad version of the movie Trading Places. These two old out of touch ass cacs decided to ruin this man's life for no apparent reason just because they knew they could. They purposefully introduced all kinds of unnecessarily and uncalled for bullshitnd into his life to try to make him as miserable as possible. And when it was all said and done this man's life was ruined over a silly $1 that these cacs had made between themselves. God and satan played Job the same way. I expect shit like that from cacs but not from the most high. That's just fucked up if that's how it went down.
GO843
Life Coach In Between Jobs
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
I think it is a metaphor. It’s also used to allude to Jesus’ death and resurrection.
Chapter 2 of Jonah, he’s in hell. He’s away from God’s presence. So is he in the fish or hell? Or did he die? It doesn’t state he did. Everyone’s interpretation is the fish “saved” him. How so? He’s clearly in hell in Ch. 2 and he’s away from God’s presence.
BRIAN B.
Shittypoobutt
see, you're pickin & choosin
both Jonah & Jesus' stories are written as true tales by the word of God
but you're sayin 1 of the stories is fiction
you callin God a liar?
I don't think there was a real concentration on continuity back then.
Niggaz just went at it.
I can't look at the Bible as literally the word of God. And maybe that's where I fall short, but so be it. I see it as how that author understood God to be at the time of his writing.
There absolutely could have been some divine intervention at play.... I'm all for that....
But 1,000's of years later?
All the hands this shit went thru.
Politics, scandals, greed, corruption.....
It's just not likely the book we hold in our hands today is anything more than a guide. I have faith that it'll still lead me in the right direction.
But that faith is not extended to taking every single word literal, and trying to out my ass explain clear contradictory verses prolly written by two completely different people in different years and possibly different languages....
Like none of these words are printed in their original language... And how much gets lost in translation??
Just too much human error involved to get worked up over being verbatim.. especially when most churches to this day still have sermons trying to interpret these same scriptures.
Not to mention, you can listen to 100 sermons from 100 preachers covering the exact same scripture... An each may give a complete different explanation...
It's just all too much IMO to realistically hold a gun to anyones head about a couple of words
Niggaz just went at it.
I can't look at the Bible as literally the word of God. And maybe that's where I fall short, but so be it. I see it as how that author understood God to be at the time of his writing.
There absolutely could have been some divine intervention at play.... I'm all for that....
But 1,000's of years later?
All the hands this shit went thru.
Politics, scandals, greed, corruption.....
It's just not likely the book we hold in our hands today is anything more than a guide. I have faith that it'll still lead me in the right direction.
But that faith is not extended to taking every single word literal, and trying to out my ass explain clear contradictory verses prolly written by two completely different people in different years and possibly different languages....
Like none of these words are printed in their original language... And how much gets lost in translation??
Just too much human error involved to get worked up over being verbatim.. especially when most churches to this day still have sermons trying to interpret these same scriptures.
Not to mention, you can listen to 100 sermons from 100 preachers covering the exact same scripture... An each may give a complete different explanation...
It's just all too much IMO to realistically hold a gun to anyones head about a couple of words
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
Is Jonah in the belly of the fish or hell?
BRIAN B.
Shittypoobutt
lol bruh
that's irrelevant, don't try to dance around this
you either believe Jonah's story is the true word of God or a work of fiction
you say it's fiction
so, did God lie?
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
God isn’t telling the story, and no one is lying. It’s not difficult to read and see what’s up. You keep saying I pick & choose and I’m not. I’m reading and making complete sense of it within it’s context.
BRIAN B.
Shittypoobutt
look
I'm jus goin by the information I'm presented w/
you say jesus' story is true, correct?
you also say Jonah's is fiction, correct?
but both were written as true stories that actually happened
so how can you choose to say they both aren't true stories that actually happened?
VIBE
Do More. Be Legendary.
the creation story is also written as 6 days... which I don’t ascribe to. I’ve explained why. The Jonah story is considered satire, I guess only up until the point of the big fish? then afterwards he’s in hell... it’s a story, it’s not literal as far as I can see. The Jesus story is much different. The Jonah story is symbolic of what was to come (Jesus) and He came and did what was supposed to be done. Even the 40 days was symbolic to Jesus.
yeesh..
BRIAN B.
Shittypoobutt
I notice there's 3 types of "religious" folks
those like @Breezy_Kilroy who are fundamentalist, that believe the word is literal
those like @Duwop who believe it's a parable
& those like @VIBE who pick & choose what best fits
now, I'm not sayin either of yall are wrong in your beliefs
but it does seem a lil odd
those like @Breezy_Kilroy who are fundamentalist, that believe the word is literal
those like @Duwop who believe it's a parable
& those like @VIBE who pick & choose what best fits
now, I'm not sayin either of yall are wrong in your beliefs
but it does seem a lil odd
BRIAN B.
Shittypoobutt
Show me where Jonah's story is written as "satire"
cuz according to the bible it's a true story that actually happened
There's way more groups than that.
But we are literally trying to decipher shit that no one truly understands with 2,000 year old instruments...
Reality doesn't care if you believe in it..mit just is.....
I don't think God cares if we believe in him or not, it's just too insignificant...
However.... If we must insist.... There are means to do so.... Just understand... It's more for our benefit than his...
Just my take
But we are literally trying to decipher shit that no one truly understands with 2,000 year old instruments...
Reality doesn't care if you believe in it..mit just is.....
I don't think God cares if we believe in him or not, it's just too insignificant...
However.... If we must insist.... There are means to do so.... Just understand... It's more for our benefit than his...
Just my take