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House committee debates - H.R. 7910, the “Protecting Our Kids Act” raise the age to purchase a semi automatic to 21, and ban new large capacity mags

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In a package of six bills being debated Thursday, Democrats want to ban what they described as "weapons of war."

Their legislation would:

  • Raise the minimum age to buy semi-automatic rifles from 18 to 21.
  • Ban high-capacity ammunition magazines.
  • Bar the sales of "ghost gun" kits without a background check or serial numbers stamped on the parts.
  • Increase penalties for illegal "straw purchases" of guns.
  • Require gun owners to safely store their weapons, especially when children are present.
The legislation, H.R. 7910, is decades in the making and a "combination of humanity, courage, decency and action," said Rep. Sheila Jackson, D-Texas.

If Congress can't pass this package of bills after 23 years of mass shootings in schools, she said. "Shame on us! We can move legislation now."

Republicans say the proposed measures are an attack on the Second Amendment.

"Democrats are always fixated on curtailing the rights of law-abiding citizens, rather than trying to understand why this evil happens," Jordan said. "Until we figure out the 'why,' we will always mourn losses without fixing the problem."

Democrats say their measures are widely supported by the American public and they won't back down until they pass.

"Time after time, you have put your right to kill over our right to live," Rep Mondaire Jones, D-N.Y., said to his Republican colleagues.

A passionate debate

Rep. Andy Biggs, R-Ariz., said the Uvalde shooting was "beyond a tragedy," but he disagreed with the Democratic package of bills.

The idea that disarming Americans, who lawfully and legally own guns, will produce a safer country is "simply not true," he said.

Jordan accused Democrats of trying to dramatically change the country, which prompted a strong retort from Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif.

"If trying to make sure that no more kids are put in the ground with a Superman coffin means dramatically changing the country, guilty. That's why we're here," Swalwell said. "Why aren't you trying to dramatically change the number of dead kids going into the ground, Mr. Jordan?"

Swalwell then asked a question more generally to fellow committee members: "Who are you here for – the kids or the killers?"

Comments from Jones and Swalwell prompted a passionate response from Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas.

"I don't think that it's very effective for the children to have people on the other side of the aisle come in and accuse Republicans of being complicit in murder," Gohmert said.

The idea that Republicans support the gunman "is an outrage," he said. "How dare you! You think we don't have hearts?"

Republicans oppose the legislation because they think Democrats have bad ideas, not because they support murderers, he said.

Gohmert pointed to high murder rates in Democratic-led cities, including Philadelphia, prompting a response from Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon, D-Penna.

Pennsylvania's Republican-led legislature for decades has blocked city leadership from passing the type of gun-safety laws now being considered by the Judiciary committee, she said.

"We are not helpless here. We can change this," she said. "We can pass gun violence prevention laws that are constitutional and save lives. All it takes is political courage – a willingness to put American lives above gunmaker profits."

Scanlon said the legislation before the House Judiciary Committee is not about being pro-gun or anti-gun.

"It's about desperately needing to stop gun violence," she said.

What Republicans want
Rep. Thomas Massie, R-Ky., pushed for fewer restrictions, not more.

He advocated for his "Safe Students Act" – a reboot of legislation first introduced by then-Rep. Ron Paul, R-Ky., in 2007 that would repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990.

The act would make it easier for school boards, state and local governments to set their own firearms policies – such as arming teachers.

"Banks, churches, sports stadiums and many of my colleagues in Congress are protected with firearms," Massie said. "Yet children inside the classroom are too frequently left vulnerable."


Rep. Steve Chabot, R-Ohio, was one of many GOP members who said the mental health crisis should be addressed more and teachers should be trained better to spot troubled students who might carry out mass shootings.

Biggs called for more retired military and police to protect schools and deter people from "committing heinous crimes" in schools.

"Do not insult Americans by advocating to arm teachers and guidance counselors and librarians, when many of our schools don't have enough money to hire guidance counselors or librarians or enough teachers," Scanlon said.
What's likely to pass

Democrats are expected to move the package of bills to the House floor for a vote late next week.

The House will also vote on separate bills from lawmakers who have experienced gun violence: a "red flag" bill from Rep. Lucy McBath, D-Ga., whose son was a victim of gun violence a decade ago; a bill that would allow states to enact their own red flag laws from Rep. Salud Carbajal, D-Calif., whose sister used a gun to kill herself.

Red flag measures allow police or family members to petition a court to issue extreme risk protection orders authorizing them to temporarily confiscate firearms from a person who may present a danger to others or themselves.

[ b]All the bills are expected to pass the House because of the Democratic majority, but are unlikely to pass the Senate, where Republicans can block gun legislation and have indicated they will not support major gun reform.[/b]

Sens. John Cornyn, R-Texas, and Chris Murphy, D-Conn., are leading a bipartisan group of senators in negotiations on a narrower gun-control package than House Democrats.

The senators' plans would focus on red-flag laws, mental health and school safety.

Majority Whip Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said the Senate would start debating the bills when lawmakers return from recess next week.
 
  • Raise the minimum age to buy semi-automatic rifles from 18 to 21.
    • Highly agree with this one
  • Ban high-capacity ammunition magazines.
    • I think this one is to please people but what is high capacity? 30rds? 20rds?
  • Bar the sales of "ghost gun" kits without a background check or serial numbers stamped on the parts.
    • Never understood why someone would want a 80% lower? I mean yeah you can "personalize" but really was a niche kinda thing.
  • Increase penalties for illegal "straw purchases" of guns.
    • Agree with heavy
  • Require gun owners to safely store their weapons, especially when children are present.
    • Should have been doing this anyway. Safes, gun locks, guns in condition 3 or condition 4 when not in use.
Would like to see some more things added but I guess that will come in due time
 
Agree with all of the democratic side, the mental health part of the Republican side. Strongly disagree with militarizing our schools, but could be convinced if it saves lives. But it can’t be the only solution without some sort of gun control.

The only reason we can’t do some gun restrictions AND focus on mental health is because the gun advocates side has no give.

And when we’re having the same conversations in a decade, they’ll just say we didn’t focus on mental health enough and continue to ignore how the ease of access to guns play in the equation.
 
Agree with all of the democratic side, the mental health part of the Republican side. Strongly disagree with militarizing our schools, but could be convinced if it saves lives. But it can’t be the only solution without some sort of gun control.

The only reason we can’t do some gun restrictions AND focus on mental health is because the gun advocates side has no give.
To them militarizing our schools is mental health. Like they think that a stressed out and underpaid teacher needs a gun to defend a class against a school shooter. If that happens, A kid is getting shot the first week that shit comes into play.
 
Meh, lotta manufacturers of normal, non-military semi-auto rifles gonna jump on them for the first bullet point 'cause they're gonna kill the market for starter rifles and legit hunting rifles, especially those chambered in .22lr.

Guess I'mma hop over to Ventura tomorrow to grab some magazines... just in case.
 
This is posturing. But also a great move by the Blues.

With the midterms right here, this forces the TOP’s hand to actually DO something, or risk losing a seat or few in Congress.
 
Meh, lotta manufacturers of normal, non-military semi-auto rifles gonna jump on them for the first bullet point 'cause they're gonna kill the market for starter rifles and legit hunting rifles, especially those chambered in .22lr.

Guess I'mma hop over to Ventura tomorrow to grab some magazines... just in case.
Which point and how? The first bullet was raising the minimum age.

Either way, I don’t really care what a gun manufacturer thinks when it comes to gun control. Their profit motive is the reason we have so many guns in circulation now. The US is their last major private consumer base.
 
Which point and how? The first bullet was raising the minimum age.

Either way, I don’t really care what a gun manufacturer thinks when it comes to gun control. Their profit motive is the reason we have so many guns in circulation now. The US is their last major private consumer base.

the first bullet is:

" Raise the minimum age to buy semi-automatic rifles from 18 to 21. "

The issue? You're keeping people from buying legitimate hunting rifles until they're 21. This is where knowing what you're talking about comes into play. If they wanted to make a difference and get AR-15's out of the hands of people 18-20, then say "raise the minimum age to buy military derivative civilian market semi-automatic rifles" and you wouldn't trample on legit hunters that want to cop a semi-auto 308 or something like that. That would also encompass things like Kalashnikov's, Steyer AUG's, and any other civilian variant of a military rifle.
 
the first bullet is:

" Raise the minimum age to buy semi-automatic rifles from 18 to 21. "

The issue? You're keeping people from buying legitimate hunting rifles until they're 21. This is where knowing what you're talking about comes into play. If they wanted to make a difference and get AR-15's out of the hands of people 18-20, then say "raise the minimum age to buy military derivative civilian market semi-automatic rifles" and you wouldn't trample on legit hunters that want to cop a semi-auto 308 or something like that. That would also encompass things like Kalashnikov's, Steyer AUG's, and any other civilian variant of a military rifle.
This is where knowing a lot about guns doesn’t matter. No guns for anyone under 21. Don’t need to know the differences for that.

Right now you can’t own a handgun until you are 21 but you can get a rifle so that’s why they are making the distinction.

And I know kids are out there hunting with guns purchased by their parents now. I don’t think that will stop. So kids will just have to wait until 21 to buy it themselves.

What’s the big deal if it saves some lives?
 
the first bullet is:

" Raise the minimum age to buy semi-automatic rifles from 18 to 21. "

The issue? You're keeping people from buying legitimate hunting rifles until they're 21. This is where knowing what you're talking about comes into play. If they wanted to make a difference and get AR-15's out of the hands of people 18-20, then say "raise the minimum age to buy military derivative civilian market semi-automatic rifles" and you wouldn't trample on legit hunters that want to cop a semi-auto 308 or something like that. That would also encompass things like Kalashnikov's, Steyer AUG's, and any other civilian variant of a military rifle.
*raises hand*

Now I haven't really paid attention to the gun game much since I moved back home, but uhhh

Why you need that type of gun so bad you can't wait 3 years?

And as far as hunting rifles...what happened to bolt action and good aim?

The gun control debate will never go anywhere because nobody is trying to listen to the other side
 
*raises hand*

Now I haven't really paid attention to the gun game much since I moved back home, but uhhh

Why you need that type of gun so bad you can't wait 3 years?

And as far as hunting rifles...what happened to bolt action and good aim?

The gun control debate will never go anywhere because nobody is trying to listen to the other side

Because you're 18-20 and it's it's deer season and you want to go out on your own for once.

Some people like bolt action, some don't. Personally, I fall in the latter category.
 
Yeaaaah the movie Heat dropped during the AWB and taught everyone to include Marines that mag capacity is a non-issue with a clean weapon and enough practice.
 
This is where knowing a lot about guns doesn’t matter. No guns for anyone under 21. Don’t need to know the differences for that.

Right now you can’t own a handgun until you are 21 but you can get a rifle so that’s why they are making the distinction.

And I know kids are out there hunting with guns purchased by their parents now. I don’t think that will stop. So kids will just have to wait until 21 to buy it themselves.

What’s the big deal if it saves some lives?

They make the distinction because hangduns are easily concealed, easier to use impulsively and, overwhelmingly, used in criminal activities, rifles not so much.
 
Yeaaaah the movie Heat dropped during the AWB and taught everyone to include Marines that mag capacity is a non-issue with a clean weapon and enough practice.

Years ago I had heard something about the bank shootout scene being shown to Marine recruits on how to drop and reload magazines quickly. Never knew if it was true or not (though I could always ask one of my cousins; 4 of them are Marines).
 
Saw this counter to raising the age to 21

The 9th Circuit, which is by far the most liberal Appeals court in the country, overturned CA's law blocking the sale of semi-automatic weapons to those under 21.


Now, the Court did say that it was acceptable to force them to get a hunting license. So not a free for all. I'm guessing Bonta (CA Attorney General) will ask for review en banc and hope to have it overturned (worked for large magazine ban), but if it gets to this SCOTUS, I doubt it survives.

In a larger sense -- if we are going to say 21 is the new definition of adulthood, then make it universal. 21 to buy a gun. 21 to vote. 21 to buy a beer or cigarettes. And 21 to be drafted. But this would require a Constitutional amendment. But if you're not mature enough to own a gun at 18, then you're not mature enough to vote.
 
Saw this counter to raising the age to 21

The 9th Circuit, which is by far the most liberal Appeals court in the country, overturned CA's law blocking the sale of semi-automatic weapons to those under 21.


Now, the Court did say that it was acceptable to force them to get a hunting license. So not a free for all. I'm guessing Bonta (CA Attorney General) will ask for review en banc and hope to have it overturned (worked for large magazine ban), but if it gets to this SCOTUS, I doubt it survives.

In a larger sense -- if we are going to say 21 is the new definition of adulthood, then make it universal. 21 to buy a gun. 21 to vote. 21 to buy a beer or cigarettes. And 21 to be drafted. But this would require a Constitutional amendment. But if you're not mature enough to own a gun at 18, then you're not mature enough to vote.
Agree with everything but that last statement. Voting and owning a weapon whose sole purpose is to kill are different. Very different. And conflating the two is preposterous. But if it gets guns out of those folks hands I wouldn’t be against it.
 
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