Dr Umar lists his top 5 coons of all time

[The Lonious Monk]

I’m comparing everybody to Black people because Black people are the subject of this particular discussion lol.

There is definitely a link between poverty and violent crime, but my point is the link isn’t as strong as you suggest. That’s why bringing up the violent crime rate of another historically oppressed group with a similar income rate is relevant. Not to say that Native Americans went through the same thing as us—I’m pointing to the similar economic standings but not so similar violent crime rates.

Further, if it was a straightforward connection, the relationship between the historical poverty rate and the historical crime rate of Black people would be correlated, but it’s not. There’s more to it. It boils down to individual choices which are made in a context.

You can (and should) add the context of the history of economic marginalization, racial oppression, and systemic distrust that molded this culture. And I’m right there with you when you factor in the fact that drug markets in Black communities were artificially saturated by the Government at a time when means of “legitimate“ business were limited due to systemic racism, creating clear economic incentives to delve in the criminal underworld that didn’t exist in other communities. I’m knowing!

But at the end of the day, most Black people aren’t in “the streets” and you know that. It’s just the fact that “context” drove enough of us to “the streets” to the point where the most dangerous part of most major American cities is one that is majority Black. There has to be some ownership that we take for that. If not, then it’s like saying we have no more agency for our own outcome today than our ancestors did during slavery.

The link between poverty and crime is as strong as I said it was. As I said before, when you compare the crime rate for other impoverished groups to their national averages, the impoverished rate is always higher. That's pretty much universal. Comparing the black american crime rate to the crime rate of poor people in some other country makes no sense. There's tons of other factors that would account for that difference that you haven't considered. You're just trying to say "Hey, since those poor people aren't as violent as our poor people, so there must be something uniquely wrong with us." That's not necessarily true.

Also, if culture is the problem, why aren't the middle or upper class black communities plagued with crime? Middle and upper class black people listen to rap and engage in African American culture too. Take Maryland for an example. Prince George's County and Charles County are both majority black and neither of them have an extremely high crime rate. Charles County's crime rate is a little better than the national average. PGC's is higher, but that rise has been a failrly recent trend and it coincides with an influx of displaced poor people from DC. The cultures aren't markedly different in these areas. The socio-economic status is. Guess which county is wealthier.

You're right. Most black people aren't in the streets. If you know that, you should also know that a very small percentage of black people are responsible for the vast majority of the violent crime in the community and almost all of them are on the lower end of the economic scale. Some misguided people from decent backgrounds fall into traps, but there aren't many gang wars or burglary rings coming out of middle class black america.

 

[TheNightKing]

@The Lonious Monk and @Stiff , appreciate the discourse you two have had in here. Opposing points of view debated respectfully and with substance from both sides.

Well done.

 

[Maywood]