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Desegregation: Black Americans Were Bamboozled

Race Jones said:
integration splintered Black america. Its easy to say “we are better off now then we were then” but for so many Black americans thats simply not the case. Integration widened class divides and made it much harder for those left behind in historically looted areas to climb the ladder.
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*Waits patiently for Czar to flip his stance*

Next they gonna say gentrification is great for Black Americans also
 
DOS_patos said:
but isnt fighting for equal rights apart of integrating into their system?
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It is but it doesn't necessarily have to be

Like chi said inclusion was conflated with equality

We could have just as easily been aiming for own empowerment independent of the white establishment while simultaneously utilizing some of the resources created by the white establishment

This is all just rhetoric tho. The lines have been blurred
 
Chi-akin Citywalker said:
There's was never going to be a quick fix to the damage enslavement caused. Finding an equal footing in this country was always gonna be a long process that expanded generations and a lot of sacrifices

But desegregation was and should be seen for what it was, a quick fix to alleviate white guilt
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How do you think black people would have been able to get equality without equal access?

Again, we're not just talking about bathrooms. Desegregation gave black people access to the best schools, the most stable banks, wider employment opportunities, etc...

A lot of the black people that are celebrated today couldn't have accomplished what they have without integration.
 
the idea that integration was to improve the lives of Black ppl reinforces whiteness as both the symbol of opportunity and the measuring stick for equality.... which is the antitesis of integration isnt it?

i mean why would anyone else want to live around or interact with a group that is discouraged from being around itself?

every other race can have homogenous spaces, neighborhoods, and recreational play areas but Black ppl are largely discouraged from living and working solely amongst one another.

we are the quickest ones looking to assimilate into white-dominant spaces because again, we were duped into believing that the only way to acquire wealth, access, and protection in this country is to become as white as possible or be in as close proxomity to it as possible


when in reality, this entire world would collapse if Black ppl left.

it seems to me that Black ppl, both past and present, were looking for something better than what currently existed.

I understand. I mean jim crow status was downright sadistic. Its just the presumption that whiteness = better is my problem.
 
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Disanthrope said:
It is but it doesn't necessarily have to be

Like chi said inclusion was conflated with equality

We could have just as easily been aiming for own empowerment independent of the white establishment while simultaneously utilizing some of the resources created by the white establishment

This is all just rhetoric tho. The lines have been blurred
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i been preaching the bolded for years? as alot of other have too.

but imma stand back and just watch this convo.

i dont want to Dos it
 
Hellczar said:
See you’re saying inclusion like I’m thinking desegregation was going to end racism yes that was foolish. But if you telling me what we had in 1930 is better than today idk wtf to tell you. My parents certainly didn’t think intervention was gonna make white folks play fair. Have y’all talked to anybody who grew up at that time. Or y’all saying our attitudes as far as blackness would’ve been different. You think the crack epidemic wouldn’t happened or been less than. Because I’m trying to see what was better I the 1930s 40s and 50s
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My parents have both expressed their dislike of integrating with white people.
Particularly white schools.
According to them the quality of education took a hit, although they had a nicer building to sit in.
At least at the elementary level.

There are other little things too.
Certain places hit different as they remember the racist history a location, business, or family had.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
How do you think black people would have been able to get equality without equal access?

Again, we're not just talking about bathrooms. Desegregation gave black people access to the best schools, the most stable banks, wider employment opportunities, etc...

A lot of the black people that are celebrated today couldn't have accomplished what they have without integration.
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sometimes being given something makes you lazy and forgetful.

and the people might not have been as big....but they would have been big to us...and thats all that should matter in certain situations
 
Race Jones said:
explain this....
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Black people love to put people like Oprah, Obama, Jay-Z, and other similar figures on pedestals, but none of those people could have become what they are now prior to integration. That's not to say that they couldn't have been rich and successful, but there would have been a ceiling on their accomplishments that doesn't exist now.

Even when we're talking about entrepreneurs and other professionals that are successful but don't have a fame. Many of them, at some point, depended on degrees from majority institutions, loans for white owned banks, or business related assets (e.g., product supply chains) that were denied to blacks before integration.
 
DOS_patos said:
sometimes being given something makes you lazy and forgetful.

and the people might not have been as big....but they would have been big to us...and thats all that should matter in certain situations
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What were we given? All that happened was that the government put a stop to overt legalized discrimination. It wasn't like they gave blacks the keys to success and we used them and got fat and lazy.

And not being as big does matter if you're talking about what that person can do for people in their community. Say that if by the time she dies, Oprah will have donated 10% of her wealth to the black community. 10% of 100M is a lot less than 10% of 5B. Also, the bigger a person is, the more doors they can open for others. Oprah being a universal star means she can open doors anywhere for up and coming blacks. Oprah being a hood star means that she might not be able to do anything for anyone unless they are working in the specific area where she is successful. There are levels.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
Black people love to put people like Oprah, Obama, Jay-Z, and other similar figures on pedestals, but none of those people could have become what they are now prior to integration. That's not to say that they couldn't have been rich and successful, but there would have been a ceiling on their accomplishments that doesn't exist now.

Even when we're talking about entrepreneurs and other professionals that are successful but don't have a fame. Many of them, at some point, depended on degrees from majority institutions, loans for white owned banks, or business related assets (e.g., product supply chains) that were denied to blacks before integration.
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Oprah was a weapon, takes a keen eye to see how and why.
Music could have made money on a growing chitling circuit and others that may have popped up. as far as president.....ehhh. maybe.

i think we can do and have everything we have now if we supported each other more and looked at outsiders as the enemy or need to earn their place like we must with everyone. we need to have better standards at what we allow into our community and allow to leave our community.
 
1000 dollars probably leave the community before one dollar recirculate

not only is the local soul food spot a Mid chain restaurant made with no love , the chinese spot across the street cheaper and the Cat food better. They get to undercut the competition
And take that money right out to the suburbs and send some home

the whole world looking to you for culture and aesthetics and you spending a billion dollars in a supply store owned by a homely women posted in the middle of the hood
 
The Lonious Monk said:
What were we given? All that happened was that the government put a stop to overt legalized discrimination. It wasn't like they gave blacks the keys to success and we used them and got fat and lazy.

And not being as big does matter if you're talking about what that person can do for people in their community. Say that if by the time she dies, Oprah will have donated 10% of her wealth to the black community. 10% of 100M is a lot less than 10% of 5B. Also, the bigger a person is, the more doors they can open for others. Oprah being a universal star means she can open doors anywhere for up and coming blacks. Oprah being a hood star means that she might not be able to do anything for anyone unless they are working in the specific area where she is successful. There are levels.
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if the black community stuck together .....Oprahs money would not be needed because the community has all it needs.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
How do you think black people would have been able to get equality without equal access?

Again, we're not just talking about bathrooms. Desegregation gave black people access to the best schools, the most stable banks, wider employment opportunities, etc...

A lot of the black people that are celebrated today couldn't have accomplished what they have without integration.
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If the emphasis would have been equally allocating the funds and resources from 'the best' establishments into black areas, you would find the answer to your riddle. It was a lateral step vs a step forward in most cases

It's a fight we still having to this day b.

Is Yale being integrated more important than say better funding for public schools?
 
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