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Capitalism vs Socialism

BDP™️ said:
Its also a certain demo...

if you notice its mostly Gen X and Boomers

Millenials and up aint going for the bullshit

we just gotta get these old mfs outta office man
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Facts. We need more AOC, and Ilhan Omars types. And not just because they are young liberals. AOC represents district that has a huge population of Latins. Ilhan Omar represents a district that has a majority of muslims.

We need more of that. If a district is majority black, it should be represented by a black congress person. Same with hispanic. Same with asian and muslims and whatever other minority.

There have been so many white male congressmen that have never even walked in the district they are representing until they decided to run for congress.

That, along with an age and term limit is necessary in congress
 
AZTG said:
Fam you could just study Norways system to see if Democratic Socialism is rebranded communism or not.

Democratic Socialism isnt a theory, its actually a system that is in practice in some very successful countries.

Major difference in classic Communism and classic Socialism is that in Communism there is no such thing as money. You work based on your abilities and you are given resources based on your needs. In classic Socialism, there is actually money. In socialism, you work according to your ability and are given money. That means you can spend or save, and buy what you want. In either system, you don't have private businesses or private ownership of property.

Democratic Socialism is different. It allows for money, private business, and private property. Those 3 things make it capatilist. Once you allow private businesses and the ownership of property, you cant be communist or socialist. What Democratic Socialism does though is it distributes wealth alot more than our system of capatilism. In a DS system, the richer you are, the more taxes you pay. That way everyone is given the fundamental rights to health care and a fair education, a living wage etc.

In DS, basically, the needs of the whole is supercedes the needs of the few. This doesnt mean there arent rich people in these countries. There are filthy rich people in these countries. Its just almost impossible to become Bezos rich in those countries. Theres a reason the top 100 richest people list is dominated by Americans.

But again, back to my original point, DS is being actually practiced in a ton of developed countries. You can just pick one and read about their system and get the answers to your question.

Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Canada, Germany, France to name a few. There are a ton more too. Start with Norway imo. Then go to Sweden. All these countries have a free market but they redistribute the fuck out of wealth.
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This is exactly the type of post I was hoping for lol. Props.
 
BDP™️ said:
Americans have been brainwashed and indoctrinated with hatred for socialism and communism from WWII through the Cold War

Most Americans dont even know why they hate it...its just bad cause Uncle Sam said so
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I disagree with the last two sentences. You're ignoring people who immigrated from socialist/communist countries to live 'freely' in America to earn a living.

They pass that same mentality to their US born children and generations after. They look at ANY type of socialism as a danger or early step to inevitable classic socialism/communism and avoid it at all costs.

I don't agree with all that, but some of those fears come from real experiences.

With that said it's not lost on me that some of those same ppl will be racist toward blacks when they come to America thinking to themselves "I'm not from here and I'm doing better than they are. It's their own fault".

Which is ironic af that they felt oppressed enough to leave their own country only to be oblivious to it happening to blacks in America, perpetuated by the same capitalism that brought them here in the first place.
 
ChicagoFigure said:
It's your third paragraph where I feel like u can't escape that type of abuse/corruption in capitalism. It's inevitable. Same way socialism has it's inescapable flaws. In either system one group of elites control all.

And add to that the wealth gap has been widening even before Covid (Lord knows how bad the damage is now).

Do u consider minimum wage to be socialism?
If so, where would we be without it?
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You create laws and regulations to deal with that stuff. The problem is they have an outsized impact on our political system....especially under trump. Even biden's team is closer to wall street than i would like.

Minimum wage is a law...i wouldnt consider it socialism per se. Alot of reasoning behind it is to ensure fair wages for people to actually spend money and grow the economy. So you could also say its capitalist by design too.
 
I’d imagine under some systems, good workers aren’t rewarded...and good work can be subjective but quantified by product. Under a capitalist system, quintessentially the value for good workers lies in high yield...I think that sentiment crosses over with people who originate from such economical systems and seeds capitalistic ideologies onto the citizens
 
My co-worker tryna hit me w/ all that "capitalism is bad,socialism is better" junk.

When I asked him what the cons are, he ain't have one word. If this society we live in is capitalism or capitalism + socialism. Then I'd easily take it. No questions asked. There's pros/cons to everything. I already looked at the democratic socialists videos and I'm not won over at all by them.
 
itsupthere said:
My co-worker tryna hit me w/ all that "capitalism is bad,socialism is better" junk.

When I asked him what the cons are, he ain't have one word. If this society we live in is capitalism or capitalism + socialism. Then I'd easily take it. No questions asked. There's pros/cons to everything. I already looked at the democratic socialists videos and I'm not won over at all by them.
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What do you think the benefits of capitalism are over democratic socialism?
 
When companies like Ford, Hershey, Apple, Microsoft and likes were started. The capitalistic intention on providing what the market was missing with available and semi affordable quality product was in full force.

When these companies decided to grow and the intention became money by any means and they started fleecing their workers, the environment, and the citizens of the cities they operate out of. That was a dereliction of capitalism.

When the us gov did nothing to stop it and infact rewarded and embolden them to go after their own cust base to get money by any means, with no repercussions.

That's when capitalism became truly broken and that's where we are at. And it's the most dire consequence of of capitalism that socialist warn of. That being said, the most dire consequence of socialism would happen as well given enough time.

It's not the ideology, it's the people the ideology feed, that are broken, humanity will eventually break any system due to power and greed, because humanity isnt better than power and greed.
 
itsupthere said:
Sorry to divert your question, by asking a question. I really mean that.


But what's the difference b/w democratic socialism and socialism??
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That's a question that can have a really complicated answer because there are several types of socialism. That said, the kind that most people think about when they throw out Venezuela or WWII Germany is where the state pretty much controls everything and you have a strongman dictator type at the top who has near control of the state.

Democratic socialism is a mixed type of economy. Some things like education, healthcare, and other things important for the lives of the people are controlled by the state, while other things are privately controlled. The state is a democracy and therefore the people dictate who is control.
 
Generally speaking,

Seems like in classic socialism all business is controlled by and only beneficial to government.

Whereas in capitalism the government is controlled by and only beneficial to businesses.

What's going on in society reminds me of an analogy Bill Burr made. Its like we're on a boat that rocks too far one side, mfs freak out and rush to the other side, it rocks even harder and before we know it we're bout to flip this mf over.

Rinse wash and repeat. I think capitalism had a great run but got so extreme and done so much damage ppl ready to rock the other way again.

And once we go back to the new old thing that's gonna have it's run and round and round we go.

History/human nature repeats itself
 
Great shit. But do yall have any videos for dummies like me who is trying to understand these isms? Got a co worker who stays bashing socialism because he talks about Cubans and such. I'm just not that hyped about politics anymore but I would like to at least inform myself thoroughly
 
ChicagoFigure said:
Democratic socialism does seem like the next best step tho bc of the privatization allowed while establishing a wider safety net. But any republican or establishment democrat is gonna keep that from happening in America.
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Ehh im generally weary of the democratic socialism that progressives point to...

Higher education is the perfect example of this. Essentially higher education and the federally backed loans that subsidize it in this country...are a joke.

Colleges and universities can charge absurd prices because they're backed by government loans. All the while, many students dont get a good enough education to help pay for those loans and makes no more than somebody who went to a local trade school for much, much cheaper.

Now progressives and democratic socialists want to pour more money into a broken system and one that has no incentive to get better because its largely backed by the federal govt.

Now why doesnt the federal govt just take over higher education some would say? Thats an option...but the you'll get more administrators, more fees, more roadblocks between you and you're education which results in more taxes for us in a system that could quickly spiral out of control.

(To be fair conservatives want to scam students in another way by offering for profit schools with no standards or value)

So many of these massive programs that democratic socialism call for can quickly bloviate when done at scale. Look at our defense budget.
 
25centsandwich said:
Ehh im generally weary of the democratic socialism that progressives point to...

Higher education is the perfect example of this. Essentially higher education and the federally backed loans that subsidize it in this country...are a joke.

Colleges and universities can charge absurd prices because they're backed by government loans. All the while, many students dont get a good enough education to help pay for those loans and makes no more than somebody who went to a local trade school for much, much cheaper.

Now progressives and democratic socialists want to pour more money into a broken system and one that has no incentive to get better because its largely backed by the federal govt.

Now why doesnt the federal govt just take over higher education some would say? Thats an option...but the you'll get more administrators, more fees, more roadblocks between you and you're education which results in more taxes for us in a system that could quickly spiral out of control.

(To be fair conservatives want to scam students in another way by offering for profit schools with no standards or value)

So many of these massive programs that democratic socialism call for can quickly bloviate when done at scale. Look at our defense budget.
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What do u think about democratic socialism as practiced in the nordic countries?
 
ChicagoFigure said:
What do u think about democratic socialism as practiced in the nordic countries?
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Eh it works for them. The question is does wealth inequality stem from those social programs or does the social programs stem from their wealth?

I would argue the latter and they've benefitted from generous trade deals with us (United States) that allow for that. Without american corporations providing avenues for their skilled labor and highly, highly favorable import/export deals then i would say it would be much harder to keep those programs solvent and stave off inflation. It helps that they all got smart and formed the eu while letting wall st skim off the top of the american economy.

Pretty much...it works well when everybody has some baseline in income.

In this country, they're all kinds of socio-economicfactors at play. But genenrally, imo, let people make money and spend it in a free market economy is the way to go. Obviously, they're going to be social programs but my fear is that we let progressives hoodwink us (blacks) back into the welfare/public housing government subsistance era.
 
25centsandwich said:
Eh it works for them. The question is does wealth inequality stem from those social programs or does the social programs stem from their wealth?

I would argue the latter and they've benefitted from generous trade deals with us (United States) that allow for that. Without american corporations providing avenues for their skilled labor and highly, highly favorable import/export deals then i would say it would be much harder to keep those programs solvent and stave off inflation. It helps that they all got smart and formed the eu while letting wall st skim off the top of the american economy.

Pretty much...it works well when everybody has some baseline in income.

In this country, they're all kinds of socio-economicfactors at play. But genenrally, imo, let people make money and spend it in a free market economy is the way to go. Obviously, they're going to be social programs but my fear is that we let progressives hoodwink us (blacks) back into the welfare/public housing government subsistance era.
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Correct me if I'm wrong. Are u saying the nordic countries were able to put themselves in the position they are now bc of America?

And if yes, if America never made those trade deals with them, where would they be now?

Wish it was a mf on here more knowledgeable in the pro socialism side who would debate u bc I'm interested as hell in this topic
 
None of these systems are inherently good or bad. They are just susceptible to abuse in different ways. Capitalism is highly abusable because of its nature. That's why we need government regulation and oversight. The problem is that our government is corrupt so it often doesnt regulate in the way it should. Dumbass Republicans are always complaining about government regulation and claiming the free market will regulate but that's a lie.
 
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