Capitalism vs Socialism

[ChicagoFigure]

Which are u for/against and why?

Is democratic socialism different than the socialism of post WWII? If so, how?

Can the two systems coexist better or do we need a complete overhaul into something else?

Thread inspired in part by this Netflix doc:

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Personally I find the statement: "it only looks good on paper" applies to either system

 

[16bitSheez]

Every society needs a blend of systems, you can't just have purely this one or that one. The main issue with Capitalism is greed and the main issue with Socialism is corruption because the decisions is left up to a small group of people.

 

[Ccslim]

Capitalism obviously failed. It’s what Fox News lies to their viewers to pull the wool over their eyes while they get fucked. This applies too all MSM. You have millionaires preaching the message of their billionaire bosses. Class solidarity.

capitalism only benefits ones at the top, not the bottom. Top 1% made off with billions while 30 million on unemployment.

you can’t have the system American has as their needs to be more checks and balances but it’s damn near impossible now.

Most successful countries have socialized medicine and social safety nets. It’s how they beat COVID

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Do y'all think "democratic socialism" is a better version of the socialism post WWII or is it same repackaged, rebranded shit for the people scared of the old communist socialism

 

[25centsandwich]

Capitalism obviously failed. It’s what Fox News lies to their viewers to pull the wool over their eyes while they get fucked. This applies too all MSM. You have millionaires preaching the message of their billionaire bosses. Class solidarity.

capitalism only benefits ones at the top, not the bottom. Top 1% made off with billions while 30 million on unemployment.

you can’t have the system American has as their needs to be more checks and balances but it’s damn near impossible now.

Most successful countries have socialized medicine and social safety nets. It’s how they beat COVID

Thats just wrong. Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty.

America's problem now is that we're a mix of a capitalist nation and an pseudo oligarchy where a few companies own a disproportionate amount of wealth. The faster america gets to true but regulated capitalism the better of we'll be.

 

[5 Grand]

We actually are a socialist country.

We have SSD, SSI, Food Stamps, Section 8 housing, and state grants and federal loans to pay for college tuition. Also Medicaid for the elderly and Medicaid for those that can't afford health insurance.

We also have unemployment benefits for those that get fired from their jobs.

That's socialism. It's not a good or bad thing but it is what it is.

With capitalism, the person with the most money is better than the person with less money. A rich person can afford better legal counsel when he/she goes to court, a rich person can escape the city and buy a nice house in the suburbs, a rich person can send his kid to private school. Rich people can take vacations to the Caribbean or Hawaii. Rich people can invest their money and live off the interest of their investments without working.

So we have both Capitalism for the rich, or people that have the drive and ambition to get to the top, but we also have a safety net for those that are less fortunate.


The system isn't broken.

As I see it, the problem in America is the criminal justice system and police brutality. Otherwise, no matter how poor you are, and no matter what ghetto you're from; Harlem, South Side of Chicago, Watts, Compton, 5th Ward; If you work hard in school you can go to college, get an advanced degree and move to the suburbs and raise your kids in the suburbs away from the ghetto.

And if you really have the ambition, you can be born dirt poor and be a millionaire before you turn 30. Anybody can do it.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

Thats just wrong. Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty.

America's problem now is that we're a mix of a capitalist nation and an pseudo oligarchy where a few companies own a disproportionate amount of wealth. The faster america gets to true but regulated capitalism the better of we'll be.

@ bolded do u see that happening though?

Why hasn't it happened up until now?

 

[25centsandwich]

@ bolded do u see that happening though?

Why hasn't it happened up until now?

It has to a certain extent. The problem is that most people point to the wrong bad actors to say that the system is broken.

Take amazon for example. Alot of pseudo socialists take a look at jeff bezos' wealth and mistakenly say that he's the problem when in fact there are much worse players than amazon out there. Amazon actually turns a small profit because they reinvest in their company...creating jobs, cheaper products for consumers, and infrastructure for many other companies to benefit. Sure, they do shady shit like skirt taxes but for the most part they are how capatalism is supposed to work at a grand scale. You could say the same thing about nike, walmart, microsoft, ford, apple, chevron and many other giant corporations.

The bad actors that people should really be mad at are the hedge funds and conglomerate banks who have an oversized impact on corporations and the government. They make a fortune on speculation and stock manipulation while adding very little to society as a whole. Plus they essentially collude to not compete against themselves. The health insurance and pharmaceutical industry does something similar.

 

[ChicagoFigure]

It has to a certain extent. The problem is that most people point to the wrong bad actors to say that the system is broken.

Take amazon for example. Alot of pseudo socialists take a look at jeff bezos' wealth and mistakenly say that he's the problem when in fact there are much worse players than amazon out there. Amazon actually turns a small profit because they reinvest in their company...creating jobs, cheaper products for consumers, and infrastructure for many other companies to benefit. Sure, they do shady shit like skirt taxes but for the most part they are how capatalism is supposed to work at a grand scale. You could say the same thing about nike, walmart, microsoft, ford, apple, chevron and many other giant corporations.

The bad actors that people should really be mad at are the hedge funds and conglomerate banks who have an oversized impact on corporations and the government. They make a fortune on speculation and stock manipulation while adding very little to society as a whole. Plus they essentially collude to not compete against themselves. The health insurance and pharmaceutical industry does something similar.

It's your third paragraph where I feel like u can't escape that type of abuse/corruption in capitalism. It's inevitable. Same way socialism has it's inescapable flaws. In either system one group of elites control all.

And add to that the wealth gap has been widening even before Covid (Lord knows how bad the damage is now).

Do u consider minimum wage to be socialism?
If so, where would we be without it?

 

[5 Grand]

The bad actors that people should really be mad at are the hedge funds and conglomerate banks who have an oversized impact on corporations and the government. They make a fortune on speculation and stock manipulation while adding very little to society as a whole. Plus they essentially collude to not compete against themselves. The health insurance and pharmaceutical industry does something similar.

You hit the nail on the head with that last paragraph.

It all boils down to whether or not you know how the stock market works. If you know how it works you can make wise investments yourself without a broker. If you don't know how it works you'll use a broker and he'll rip you off because he thinks your stupid. Why would you give your money for someone else to invest? If your answer is; Because I don't know how it works, then why don't you know how it works?

I see rappers buying ridiculously expensive jewelry and tricked out cars and mansions, but you never hear about them invest ing in the stock market.

Fact; If you have $25,000 in your account you can day trade. There's more rules but that's one of them. There's certain stocks that go up and down all day and close at the same price as the day before. If you buy and sell those stocks throughout the day you can make a fortune. But if you pay a stockbroker to do it he'll charge you $2,000 per trade and he'll suck up all your money by the end of the day.


Lil Wayne has diamond teeth implants. I wonder if he's ever bought a stock?

 

[DOS_patos]

Capitalism works. It’s the corruption by racists that fucks it up.

The reason people don’t think it works is because you can be denied and isolated because of prejudice people. But even within that isolation, capitalism can work..

Chinatowns within each major city when white peoples dint like Asians is a prime example.

Now I do think everyone should pull their own weight to share in community assets and what not. But it will all start with capitalism.

 

[Olorun22]

True capitalism will fail and eat itself alive.. you need socialism with capitalism and this is what America actually is.

 

[ElijahPrice]

Capitalism is fundamentally flawed when you have to constantly grow on a planet with finite resources (hence the climate crisis we are facing right now). Capitalism help continues white supremacy and its a reason why figures like Malcolm, DuBois, the Panthers were all against it.

America is a glowing example of racial capitalism since black people started out in this country as property in the first place. Black people will never make it in such as system that already started us out in the lowest class in society unless we get tangibles (and that’s definitely not happening when the banks and corporations that used slave labor are now worth trillions of dollars).

The reason Socialism “never works” is when the US and other rich nations install dictators or use sanctions whenever socialist leaders get elected or seize control of major industries (Especially in Africa).

I don’t see how folks can cape for capitalism now when socialist countries are doing way better right now in response to the coronavirus. Cuba is sending doctors around the world to fight corona and Vietnam has been at zero cases. Our privatized healthcare industry is unsustainable.

 

[BDP™️]

Humans are corrupt anyway

doesnt matter what type of system you put in place...someone will exploit that system and the the people.

American capitalism is built on racism, sexism and classism.

from the jump to participate you had to be

white, male and own land

save for a few exeptions...that ideal is still reflected now even in 2020

 

[AZTG]

Do y'all think "democratic socialism" is a better version of the socialism post WWII or is it same repackaged, rebranded shit for the people scared of the old communist socialism

Fam you could just study Norways system to see if Democratic Socialism is rebranded communism or not.

Democratic Socialism isnt a theory, its actually a system that is in practice in some very successful countries.

Major difference in classic Communism and classic Socialism is that in Communism there is no such thing as money. You work based on your abilities and you are given resources based on your needs. In classic Socialism, there is actually money. In socialism, you work according to your ability and are given money. That means you can spend or save, and buy what you want. In either system, you don't have private businesses or private ownership of property.

Democratic Socialism is different. It allows for money, private business, and private property. Those 3 things make it capatilist. Once you allow private businesses and the ownership of property, you cant be communist or socialist. What Democratic Socialism does though is it distributes wealth alot more than our system of capatilism. In a DS system, the richer you are, the more taxes you pay. That way everyone is given the fundamental rights to health care and a fair education, a living wage etc.

In DS, basically, the needs of the whole is supercedes the needs of the few. This doesnt mean there arent rich people in these countries. There are filthy rich people in these countries. Its just almost impossible to become Bezos rich in those countries. Theres a reason the top 100 richest people list is dominated by Americans.

But again, back to my original point, DS is being actually practiced in a ton of developed countries. You can just pick one and read about their system and get the answers to your question.

Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Canada, Germany, France to name a few. There are a ton more too. Start with Norway imo. Then go to Sweden. All these countries have a free market but they redistribute the fuck out of wealth.

 

[BDP™️]

Fam you could just study Norways system to see if Democratic Socialism is rebranded communism or not.

Democratic Socialism isnt a theory, its actually a system that is in practice in some very successful countries.

Major difference in classic Communism and classic Socialism is that in Communism there is no such thing as money. You work based on your abilities and you are given resources based on your needs. In classic Socialism, there is actually money. In socialism, you work according to your ability and are given money. That means you can spend or save, and buy what you want. In either system, you don't have private businesses or private ownership of property.

Democratic Socialism is different. It allows for money, private business, and private property. Those 3 things make it capatilist. Once you allow private businesses and the ownership of property, you cant be communist or socialist. What Democratic Socialism does though is it distributes wealth alot more than our system of capatilism. In a DS system, the richer you are, the more taxes you pay. That way everyone is given the fundamental rights to health care and a fair education, a living wage etc.

In DS, basically, the needs of the whole is supercedes the needs of the few. This doesnt mean there arent rich people in these countries. There are filthy rich people in these countries. Its just almost impossible to become Bezos rich in those countries. Theres a reason the top 100 richest people list is dominated by Americans.

But again, back to my original point, DS is being actually practiced in a ton of developed countries. You can just pick one and read about their system and get the answers to your question.

Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Canada, Germany, France to name a few. There are a ton more too. Start with Norway imo. Then go to Sweden. All these countries have a free market but they redistribute the fuck out of wealth.

American capitalism is def a facade and designed to not redistribute wealth

its assinine that the richest people in this country pay the least taxes. The reasoning behind it is even more assinine...

there has been such a stigma placed on communism and socialism that even tho DS is prob whats best for America you got people vehemetly opposed...and they are mostly working class folks who it will benefit the most

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Mixed systems (e.g., social democracy) seems to be what is working best. I'm not even really sure why this is such a debate. There are statistics and data that measure our nations are doing in a variety of areas, and pretty much all the countries at the top in most of the areas measures have some kind of mixed economy.

 

[AZTG]

American capitalism is def a facade and designed to not redistribute wealth

its assinine that the richest people in this country pay the least taxes. The reasoning behind it is even more assinine...

there has been such a stigma placed on communism and socialism that even tho DS is prob whats best for America you got people vehemetly opposed...and they are mostly working class folks who it will benefit the most

Facts. Classic capatilism is literally the survival of the fittest. Capatilist will look at America and see that 1% has 95% of the wealth and will say well thats how it should be and if not the market will correct it.

Personally, when i was younger I was never bothered by a person being filthy rich until Bezos.

And funny thing is I have 0 issues with Bezos. Like I dont hate Bezos like I hate hate Musk. But the fact that Bezos is only one person and has damn near 200 billion seems super unethical. Im all for allowing people to get rich. Im trying to get rich myself. But idk if letting a person get THAT rich is right.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Capitalism as practiced in America is largely a con. It feeds on the majority to prop up the rich minority. It only works because people buy into the idea that anyone can become rich. They don't understand that its like the lottery. Sure, everyone has a shot at striking it big, but the reality is that the vast majority of people don't. American capitalism actually is a mixed system too. After all, we do have programs like social security, which are closer to socialist programs than capitalist ideas. The problem is the degree to which socialists ideas are integrated into our system is controlled by the Federal government, and the Federal government is manipulated by those people who benefit from the harmful aspects of capitalism.