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Poll Abortion: Pro Life or Pro Choice

To kill or not to kill

  • Total voters
    85
Loneshot said:
For me, there is no grey area here. Pro choice is the only answer. If a state is not going to make maternal care and childcare completely free, safe, and accessible, they should not have any input on how a woman addresses their pregnancy.

A man has absolutely no say whatsoever as they don't have to risk their life to give birth. Men in general need to be held more accountable for their mistakes in relationships. Child support doesn't force you to be involved and usually that is the biggest factor in a child's development.

Pro life arguments are for deaf ears. These are the same people complaining about people not raising their children and relying on welfare; you could stop both of those issues while still giving the person a chance to contribute to society beyond feeding the prison system or creating a potential tax payer.
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The counter to that is pro-choice people want all these policies to help people live good lives, but are okay with them being killed inside their mother's stomach.

But it again comes down to pro-choice people usually don't view it as a life until they're born.
 
Bow to Royalty said:
That's kinda what's wild.

Dude does that and he's labeled a fuckin psycho (rightfully so) for killing her and the baby. Woman kills the baby and it's "well it's her choice".

It's like babies in the womb are only seen as a life if the mother wants them.
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That's a little bit of a false equivalence, but you are right. The concept of a man getting mad and killing a fetus, even if the mother survives is looked at as some abominable shit. Yet, it's not the same when women make the choice to kill the fetus.
 
Bow to Royalty said:
That's kinda what's wild.

Dude does that and he's labeled a fuckin psycho (rightfully so) for killing her and the baby. Woman kills the baby and it's "well it's her choice".

It's like babies in the womb are only seen as a life if the mother wants them.
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That's a bit of distorted pov in that last sentence based on when you see a fetus as a life vs someone else. Especially because an abortion of a fetus happens the vast majority of the time before there's a point of viability. These murders tend to happen after that point.
 
BlackRain said:
That's a bit of distorted pov in that last sentence based on when you see a fetus as a life vs someone else. Especially because an abortion of a fetus happens the vast majority of the time before there's a point of viability. These murders tend to happen after that point.
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What's that matter though? It's less wrong to do it at 19 weeks than 22 weeks (I forget the exact time)? Once the process has begun the process has begun, and the fetus was doing fine and going to make it to 22 weeks.
 
Bow to Royalty said:
What's that matter though? It's less wrong to do it at 19 weeks than 22 weeks (I forget the exact time)? Once the process has begun the process has begun, and the fetus was doing fine and going to make it to 22 weeks.
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Well...the technical answer would be yes it's more wrong to do it later than earlier. Same reason why there's a set time frame that can determine viability to begin with. It's not really a black and white issue like some want it to be. It mainly boils down to a person's personal belief on when a fetus is considered a baby. To some it's instantly. To others it's not. But personal beliefs shouldn't dictate law. And that's where the problem lies. People want their personal feelings validated by a law.
 
BlackRain said:
Well...the technical answer would be yes it's more wrong to do it later than earlier. Same reason why there's a set time frame that can determine viability to begin with. It's not really a black and white issue like some want it to be. It mainly boils down to a person's personal belief on when a fetus is considered a baby. To some it's instantly. To others it's not. But personal beliefs shouldn't dictate law. And that's where the problem lies. People want their personal feelings validated by a law.
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Ya, but feelings aside conception is when it starts, right? Everything after that are just varying stages of development whether development inside the womb, during infancy, puberty, etc.

The other weird thing is if a woman has a miscarriage people don't ever seem to worry about what stage the fetus was at. Everyone recognizes that it was an upcoming life that was lost. A 1st trimester miscarriage isn't ever met with "Well it was just a clump of cells" or "It wasn't viable yet". It's usually "She lost the baby".
 
Bow to Royalty said:
Ya, but feelings aside conception is when it starts, right? Everything after that are just varying stages of development whether development inside the womb, during infancy, puberty, etc.

The other weird thing is if a woman has a miscarriage people don't ever seem to worry about what stage the fetus was at. Everyone recognizes that it was an upcoming life that was lost. A 1st trimester miscarriage isn't ever met with "Well it was just a clump of cells" or "It wasn't viable yet". It's usually "She lost the baby".
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This isn't true

Tell that to a woman who's had a miscarriage
 
Bow to Royalty said:
Ya, but feelings aside conception is when it starts, right? Everything after that are just varying stages of development whether development inside the womb, during infancy, puberty, etc.

The other weird thing is if a woman has a miscarriage people don't ever seem to worry about what stage the fetus was at. Everyone recognizes that it was an upcoming life that was lost. A 1st trimester miscarriage isn't ever met with "Well it was just a clump of cells" or "It wasn't viable yet". It's usually "She lost the baby".
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It actually is met with that at times. But your wording is also further indicative of my point. Which is...your personal pov of a fetus being considered a child isn't the same as everyone else's. For people whi are either pro life or want to have a kid theyd most likely consider it a life from jump. For others they wouldn't. Yes conception is when it starts but it's not the end of the process. Hence why a fetus and a viable life form are two different things.
 
Bow to Royalty said:
I don't know what you mean.
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It doesn't matter the stage of the fetus when a woman miscarries

I've known women personally that didn't even know that were pregnant only to have the fetus drop out in the toilet, shower, etc... They went from not a care in the world to immediately a sense of panic because that began to wonder what if.

The other side is if it's further along in development and it has to be removed by a physician.

Then there's the case where they go full or very close to full term and have to abort which I think a lot of people need to stop thinking the word abortion is restricted to just a plan b pill or getting a fetus sucked out. Aborting a fetus is so complex.

That's still over simplifying it but the gist is the were devastated regardless of what stage it happened
 
BlackRain said:
It actually is met with that at times. But your wording is also further indicative of my point. Which is...your personal pov of a fetus being considered a child isn't the same as everyone else's. For people whi are either pro life or want to have a kid theyd most likely consider it a life from jump. For others they wouldn't. Yes conception is when it starts but it's not the end of the process. Hence why a fetus and a viable life form are two different things.
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I said from jump it comes down to if people see the baby as a person or not.

You call it my POV but I think it's the most objective definition. Scientifically speaking I think the stages of life for humans start during pregnancy before the fetus can survive outside the mother.

Outside of a random extremists and weirdos, because nothing is 100%, I pretty much never hear people downplay a woman's miscarriage as just losing a clump of cells.
 
I'm not going to get all into the science of it and this continues to be a subject that I find myself constantly going back and forth over

I am pro choice

But I also live in a world where I truly believe some people just should not be parents but people are going to fuck and not always be responsible with protection.

Abortions are not a get out of jail free card but I know quite a few woman who mapped everything out and said you know what, I can't have a baby for this nigga and they decide to terminate. The hope is that moving forward everyone involved will be more responsible but that isn't always the case
 
AP3.0 said:
It doesn't matter the stage of the fetus when a woman miscarries

I've known women personally that didn't even know that were pregnant only to have the fetus drop out in the toilet, shower, etc... They went from not a care in the world to immediately a sense of panic because that began to wonder what if.

The other side is if it's further along in development and it has to be removed by a physician.

Then there's the case where they go full or very close to full term and have to abort which I think a lot of people need to stop thinking the word abortion is restricted to just a plan b pill or getting a fetus sucked out. Aborting a fetus is so complex.

That's still over simplifying it but the gist is the were devastated regardless of what stage it happened
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That's what I was saying. When a miscarriage happens everyone recognizes it as a loss of life... they acknowledge the fetus as life. But if it's an abortion people will start to argue it wasn't a life.
 
Bow to Royalty said:
That's what I was saying. When a miscarriage happens everyone recognizes it as a loss of life... they acknowledge the fetus as life. But if it's an abortion people will start to argue it wasn't a life.
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Ah ok

Then I think that's a dumb line in the sand to draw
 
Bow to Royalty said:
What line? Your posts are confusing, haha.
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That it's not considered a life cause it was an abortion.

Cause again, we need to stop referring to abortion as one definition to fit biased povs.

I tell you one thing, if I'm so glad of the ability to do genetic marking testing or whatever it's called. If I know my kid is going to have Downs syndrome, I'm not going to put myself or my kid through that. I would be in the abort camp
 
Bow to Royalty said:
The counter to that is pro-choice people want all these policies to help people live good lives, but are okay with them being killed inside their mother's stomach.

But it again comes down to pro-choice people usually don't view it as a life until they're born.
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Consider just these few things if we are to favor the pro life argument. You are essentially forcing people into poverty if they cannot afford the child. You could make a whole mixtape on how parenting can lead to poverty and crime; starting a family is almost like starting a business. Now, should everyone be forced to start a business if their credit is good and they have a good idea?

Next, school shootings.

Lastly, is the individual fit to parent? When we force people to become parents, we ignore if they are even qualified for the role. We only blame the parents after the fact, but take no accountability as a community when we ignore that some people should have never been parents. I know a lot of people who grew up in foster homes; those success stories are as common as Black Disney princesses.

This is not a left/right issue. I'm pro choice and I want the government out of most if not all of our business. It's HER body. If as a man I want her to keep that baby, then there is a mixtape for that too.
 
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