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Breaking News Shooting At Barrow County, Georgia High School. Suspect in Custody.

TheNightKing said:
You’re being intellectually disingenuous if you think the US isn’t also the leader in the types of shootings you’re trying to delineate here.

Take all those others out and the US is still multiples more deadly than most developed countries.

To also note, you know what dude meant when he said legally.
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1st line: I made no such comparison. I said that a country that supposedly has no guns in the average citizen's hands still has a gun violence problem. Whether this country or the next is a "leader" in that type of violence is moot. The point is there shouldn't be ANY gun violence in England because the average citizen cannot legally own a gun, and yet the problem, regardless of how small or large, still persists.

2nd line: Didn't mention any of that either.

3rd line: Go back to the post I replied to. I highlighted the last line as that was the ONLY thing I was responding to and NOTHING MORE. He didn't say "legally", I did because it make a difference. The kid was illegally in possession of a firearm, which is the ONLY way a kid gets their hands on a gun and there's simply nothing that can be done about that. Whether he steals it from his parents closet (theft = illegal) or makes his way to the hood and cops from Bruhman (underaged purchasing a gun on the street = illegal) it makes no difference; he got it illegally therefore this:

AZTG said:
it's not rocket science to try to find a way to limit access to guns.
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is truly meaningless because you cannot legislate your way out of criminal activity by it's very nature: They don't adhere to the law therefore laws cannot prevent this type of activity. If you could this would be one f the the safest countries on the planet.
 
Tayboo said:
This is a problem I have with folks on social media trying to be journalist/reporters. If you're not 100 percent sure don't post the shit. Just spreading unverified information (not aimed you grymes)...
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One of the things I learned during my very brief foray into Journalism was that if you couldn't confirm something 100%, you don't publish it. Journalistic integrity demands that you validate everything you put out.
 
konceptjones said:
1st line: I made no such comparison. I said that a country that supposedly has no guns in the average citizen's hands still has a gun violence problem. Whether this country or the next is a "leader" in that type of violence is moot. The point is there shouldn't be ANY gun violence in England because the average citizen cannot legally own a gun, and yet the problem, regardless of how small or large, still persists.

2nd line: Didn't mention any of that either.

3rd line: Go back to the post I replied to. I highlighted the last line as that was the ONLY thing I was responding to and NOTHING MORE. He didn't say "legally", I did because it make a difference. The kid was illegally in possession of a firearm, which is the ONLY way a kid gets their hands on a gun and there's simply nothing that can be done about that. Whether he steals it from his parents closet (theft = illegal) or makes his way to the hood and cops from Bruhman (underaged purchasing a gun on the street = illegal) it makes no difference; he got it illegally therefore this:



is truly meaningless because you cannot legislate your way out of criminal activity by it's very nature: They don't adhere to the law therefore laws cannot prevent this type of activity. If you could this would be one f the the safest countries on the planet.
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Each time we have this debate you move the goalpost to zero deaths, then I remind you the goal is for vast reductions, not zero.

By that logic, what’s the point in having and enforcing any law?

And by legally he’s saying the gun was purchased legally and if we had access restrictions to assault rifles this gun would not have been there to use.
 
TheNightKing said:
Bruh don’t entertain that bullshit in this thread, lol. Niggas just being saying whatever to get their biased agenda off. He’s just trying to discredit Kamala in a thread about kids and teachers getting killed.

Which is ironic because his desire for her defeat would close the door on anything happening with gun reform.
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Touche
 
TheNightKing said:
Bruh don’t entertain that bullshit in this thread, lol. Niggas just being saying whatever to get their biased agenda off. He’s just trying to discredit Kamala in a thread about kids and teachers getting killed.

Which is ironic because his desire for her defeat would close the door on anything happening with gun reform.
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The ignore button is a beautiful feature
 
TheNightKing said:
Each time we have this debate you move the goalpost to zero deaths, then I remind you the goal is for vast reductions, not zero.

By that logic, what’s the point in having and enforcing any law?
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I didn't "move the goalposts to zero deaths"; you're not getting the point I'm making.

Every time this debate comes up, one of y'all always brings up countries that have effectively banned gun ownership and the darling country of that which is always brought into the convo is England. What I'm pointing out is that even with that legislation in place, England still has gun deaths.

As for the second question... Let me give you an example: Year over year, more children die from alcohol (~4300) than have ever died if you combine every mass school shooting ever in American history. Alcohol possession and consumption by minors is illegal, yet they simply don't care and drink themselves to death every year. We limit access, we have passed laws, we have laws that punish anyone that furnishes alcohol to a minor, we have had media campaigns and everything over the years and yet it persists as a problem and children die. Every one of those minors drank illegally and, therefore, were criminals engaged in criminal behavior. They ignored the law and they died and possibly others if they got behind the wheel of a car (thus breaking yet two more laws, DUI and vehicular homicide/manslaughter).

switch this to guns: We have every imaginable law on the books short of an outright ban that seeks to limit access to every type of firearm made, limit access by age, criminal background, recreational drug use or not, convicted wife/husband beater, how/when they can be used, if you have a PPO out on you, whether you can carry it on you or not, etc... and yet people still break those laws and wind up in possession of a firearm. These criminals get their hands on them and use them for criminal purposes (i.e. shooting up schools).

Aside from a full ban, what else can be done? We have laws that cover pretty much every conceivable way to limit access to guns, what more do you think can be done? I'm asking very seriously, because you and I have gone over this repeatedly and aside from us both being in favor or raising the age limit to purchase I don't know what else you are really proposing as a solution even if it's just to reduce the number and not get to zero.
 
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TheNightKing said:
And by legally he’s saying the gun was purchased legally and if we had access restrictions to assault rifles this gun would not have been there to use.
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The M16/M4/M4A1 are assault rifles. The AR15 is not. There's no way to get around this. There's no such a thing as a semi automatic assault rifle. Shit doesn't exist. And actual assault rifles have been banned in this country since 1986. That's a point that simply cannot be argued.

Besides all of that... Of all of the gun deaths in this country, rifles (including the AR15) account for ~200 to under 400 deaths year over year, shotguns around ~250 year over year, and handguns accounting for 6-7000 year to year.

Why are y'all so damned focused on the AR15???
 
konceptjones said:
I didn't "move the goalposts to zero deaths"; you're not getting the point I'm making.

Every time this debate comes up, one of y'all always brings up countries that have effectively banned gun ownership and the darling country of that which is always brought into the convo is England. What I'm pointing out is that even with that legislation in place, England still has gun deaths.

As for the second question... Let me give you an example: Year over year, more children die from alcohol (~4300) than have ever died if you combine every mass school shooting ever in American history. Alcohol possession and consumption by minors is illegal, yet they simply don't care and drink themselves to death every year. We limit access, we have passed laws, we have laws that punish anyone that furnishes alcohol to a minor, we have had media campaigns and everything over the years and yet it persists as a problem and children die. Every one of those minors drank illegally and, therefore, were criminals engaged in criminal behavior. They ignored the law and they died and possibly others if they got behind the wheel of a car (thus breaking yet two more laws, DUI and vehicular homicide/manslaughter).

switch this to guns: We have every imaginable law on the books short of an outright ban that seeks to limit access to every type of firearm made, limit access by age, criminal background, recreational drug use or not, convicted wife/husband beater, how/when they can be used, if you have a PPO out on you, whether you can carry it on you or not, etc... and yet people still break those laws and wind up in possession of a firearm. These criminals get their hands on them and use them for criminal purposes (i.e. shooting up schools).

Aside from a full ban, what else can be done? We have laws that cover pretty much every conceivable way to limit access to guns, what more do you think can be done? I'm asking very seriously, because you and I have gone over this repeatedly and aside from us both being in favor or raising the age limit to purchase I don't know what else you are really proposing as a solution even if it's just to reduce the number and not get to zero.
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Terrible analogy. If a kid decides to drink alcohol to the point they die that was a terrible choice they made and doesn’t kill anyone else unless they drive or do some other dumb shit. Even still, the alcohol wasn’t the tool used to kill.

Either way, as many times as your logic is found to be wanting, you’ll still deflect to some other talking point that doesn’t refute that gun laws have been proven to greatly reduce the number of mass shootings and gun violence in general.
 
AP3.0 said:
Koncept

Do the number of gun deaths in England compare to the ones in America

Yes or no
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Doesn't matter if they do or don't. We have a legal right to purchase and possess guns, generally speaking they don't. So naturally their numbers will be significantly lower. But in all honesty it should be closer to zero because, after all, they don't have a legal right to own them except under very strict circumstances and those individual would be the only ones capable of killing anyone, not some roadman named Big Nasty from the north end.
 
TheNightKing said:
Terrible analogy. If a kid decides to drink alcohol to the point they die that was a terrible choice they made and doesn’t kill anyone else unless they drive or do some other dumb shit. Even still, the alcohol wasn’t the tool used to kill.

Either way, as many times as your logic is found to be wanting, you’ll still deflect to some other talking point that doesn’t refute that gun laws have been proven to greatly reduce the number of mass shootings and gun violence in general.
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Which gun laws did that???

And gun violence took a huuuuge upswing during the pandemic and still hasn't leveled off, so, yeah... I gotta know which laws reduced gun violence?
 
OGDirtyD said:
Crazy how every old head at my job said when they went to high-school back in the day(70s) it was normal for teens to bring their rifles to school and teachers would help show them how to clean them and give tips. When hunting season would start they were allowed one excused absence during the start of it. Never had school shootings like we do now. It's def deeper then just having access...
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It's a few things. The push to give kids drugs was done by Big Pharma. That messes with brain chemistry growing up. The breakdown of families, and rise of degenerate behavior also play a part. WAY more mentally ill kids today than before, like truly messed up in the head. Pretty much all these shooter showed clear problems before the fact

People blame guns because no one wants to blame parents or our drug culture
 
ThaManMythLegnd said:
It's a few things. The push to give kids drugs was done by Big Pharma. That messes with brain chemistry growing up. The breakdown of families, and rise of degenerate behavior also play a part. WAY more mentally ill kids today than before, like truly messed up in the head. Pretty much all these shooter showed clear problems before the fact

People blame guns because no one wants to blame parents or our drug culture
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We also defunded mental health rehabilitation in this country. Every one of these mass shooters would have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution until they were deemed to no longer be a threat to themselves or anyone else back inna day. And, because that's actually a restriction for a gun purchase, anyone that had been committed would be permanently banned from ever purchasing or owning a firearm of any type.
 
konceptjones said:
We also defunded mental health rehabilitation in this country. Every one of these mass shooters would have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution until they were deemed to no longer be a threat to themselves or anyone else back inna day. And, because that's actually a restriction for a gun purchase, anyone that had been committed would be permanently banned from ever purchasing or owning a firearm of any type.
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Yep that's a big part of it. These shooting started in the 90s after all the safeguards were taken away. Both parties treat the issue as a political football and neither has a plan to solve it. If a person wants to do harm, they'll find a way. Doesn't matter if it's by gun, knife, car into a crowd, or bomb. Only true answer is to deal with mental health in this country which gets worse by the day.
 
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