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Netflix The Woman King

The Lonious Monk said:
I'm not strawmanning you. Those women were given a position of respect the same way the Spartan warriors were. That doesn't mean that by our standards, they weren't treated like shit. Again, you can literally go down the list of every warrior culture and hold them against our moral beliefs and all of them would be seen as fucked up. That doesn't change the fact that to the Dahomey, those women were believed to be holding a position of honor. It also doesn't change the fact, that women playing the role that they did was pretty much unheard of in Europe at the time, and even the Europeans admitted that.
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You completely strawmanned me with the whole "Everybody took 300 for a movie and didn't act like it was glorifying all the bad shit associated with the Spartans" like I ever mentioned 300 once.

I pushed back on a specific point. You attempted to characterize this story as if though it's one of triumph over sexism but it wasn't. Not in any context. Some of these women were taken from the King's harem, others were given up by their husbands when they were bored of them. Once forced in to service, they were subjected to clitoridectomies to make them not want to have sex or some shit. Then they were forced to raid neighboring to capture people to sell in to slavery to Europeans and Americans (there's a very good chance many of us are descended from people these folk sent over here).

Just because some other motherfuckers in history had some fucked up shit happen to them and some motherfucker somewhere think they are cool doesn't change the facts on the ground in this particular situation.
 
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Swabbie said:
You completely strawmanned me with the whole "Everybody took 300 for a movie and didn't act like it was glorifying all the bad shit associated with the Spartans" like I ever mentioned 300 once.

I pushed back on a specific point. You attempted to characterize this story as if though it's one of triumph over sexism but it wasn't. Not in any context. Some of these women were taken from the King's harem, others were given up by their husbands when they were bored of them. Once forced in to service, they were subjected to clitoridectomies to make them not want to have sex or some shit. Then they were forced to raid neighboring to capture people to sell in to slavery to Europeans and Americans (there's a very good chance many of us are descended from people these folk sent over here).

Just because some other motherfuckers in history had some fucked up shit happen to them and some motherfucker somewhere think they are cool doesn't change the facts on the ground in this particular situation.
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Bruh, you making up talking points and running with them.

I never said you said anything about 300. I through that out as an example of a fucked up culture that had a beloved movie without people going out of their way to bash it because the Spartans were fucked up.

I never said this story was a triumph over sexism. I simply pointed out that the position the Dahomey held was not one that was deemed acceptable by Western cultures. Yes, aspects of what those women went through were fucked up, that doesn't change the fact that in their culture their positions were seen as being honorable. If you consider what I'm saying to be strawmanning, then I question if you even know what that term means.

It's all well and good for you to point out truth about the culture and push people to maintain perspective on the reality of the Dahomey culture. All I'm saying is that people need to stop holding this movie to a different standard than we hold every other movie to. We have a thousand movies about Vikings, Samurai, Romans, WWII soldiers, etc... and all of them were as or more fucked up than the Dahomey Amazons. There is no reason to hold this move to a higher standard than we hold any of those movies.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
Bruh, you making up talking points and running with them.

I never said you said anything about 300. I through that out as an example of a fucked up culture that had a beloved movie without people going out of their way to bash it because the Spartans were fucked up.

I never said this story was a triumph over sexism. I simply pointed out that the position the Dahomey held was not one that was deemed acceptable by Western cultures. Yes, aspects of what those women went through were fucked up, that doesn't change the fact that in their culture their positions were seen as being honorable. If you consider what I'm saying to be strawmanning, then I question if you even know what that term means.

It's all well and good for you to point out truth about the culture and push people to maintain perspective on the reality of the Dahomey culture. All I'm saying is that people need to stop holding this movie to a different standard than we hold every other movie to. We have a thousand movies about Vikings, Samurai, Romans, WWII soldiers, etc... and all of them were as or more fucked up than the Dahomey Amazons. There is no reason to hold this move to a higher standard than we hold any of those movies.
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Honorable... to who? Let me remind you of what you said:

Given how steeped in sexism and misogyny Western cultures are, it's not a bad thing to highlight the fact that African cultures weren't the same.
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I responded to this by saying that their story, too, was steeped in sexism and misogyny and I pointed out evidence of this.

I'm not people so why respond to me with that 300 stuff? That's my point wr to the strawmanning, I never suggested I felt that way about 300 or the Spartans. When you are arguing a point with someone, you gotta keep it in the realm of what is being said, otherwise you are creating easy targets to argue against. I posited that this story is historically inaccurate and is not suggestive of the themes you put forth. Instead of directly attacking my particular position, you brought up something outside the realm of the conversation and then attacked it. That's what strawmanning is.

If you want to move into another stage of the debate, cool. On that note, movies are not a good place to learn history so, no, I don't feel we should hold them to some high ass standard; however, it's perfectly fine for people to call something fucked if it's fucked. This movie moves beyond the bounds of simple inaccuracies and sort of becomes fiction with how it portrays the very real Kingdom of Dahomey.
 
Swabbie said:
Honorable... to who? Let me remind you of what you said:



I responded to this by saying that their story, too, was steeped in sexism and misogyny and I pointed out evidence of this.

I'm not people so why respond to me with that 300 stuff? That's my point wr to the strawmanning, I never suggested I felt that way about 300 or the Spartans. When you are arguing a point with someone, you gotta keep it in the realm of what is being said, otherwise you are creating easy targets to argue against. I posited that this story is historically inaccurate and is not suggestive of the themes you put forth. Instead of directly attacking my particular position, you brought up something outside the realm of the conversation and then attacked it. That's what strawmanning is.

If you want to move into another stage of the debate, cool. On that note, movies are not a good place to learn history so, no, I don't feel we should hold them to some high ass standard; however, it's perfectly fine for people to call something fucked if it's fucked. This movie moves beyond the bounds of simple inaccuracies and sort of becomes fiction with how it portrays the very real Kingdom of Dahomey.
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Bruh, you got it. You're so intent on personalizing shit, you're not even trying to see the point that I was making. Not every statement someone makes in a discussion is meant to be a direct indictment on a specific point made. If you want to be mad about the shit, it's cool. Go for it.
 
Infamous114 said:
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Gray Matter said:
Slavery isn't just anything bad. And it's not slavery in general, but slavery for my (and your) ancestors.

Plus the problem is that Dahomey didn't just engage in slavery. They enslaved and sold more Africans to Europeans than any other tribe, I believe. Believed they tried to continue with it even after the slave trade was abolished too.
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Ethiopians also engaged in slavery till like 1900 but niggas big up Ras Tafari daily
 
Two white women write a mcu alternative version movie based on a group of coons who helped their ancestors enslave your ancestors,

Get a coon who drools over kissing white men on the big screen to play a "king" ,futher depicting black women as brutes, robbing them of their feminitiy and yall in here supporting it.

The fuckin Brits had to force them to stop being slave catchers smmfh

No othee group of people would accept this shit.
 
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